goc Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 I wanted to start a thread about guys who had lengthy careers (at least 10 years) and had consistent runs at or near the top of the card who consensus says was outright bad. I want to leave out someone like Bruiser Brody from the discussion, and focus on guys who even at the time were thought of to be bad by people in the business. My first example for a guy like this is Ox Baker. He had a great look with the eye brows and the facial hair, was somewhere around 6'5 and 350 lbs but from everything I've ever seen or heard about him he was absolutely terrible in the ring. Reading his bio here: http://thelegendaryoxbaker.com/bio.html and it sounds like he was also involved in what could have been some really terrible tag teams as well. He won tag titles with guys like Scandor Akbar, Big John Studd and Superstar Billy Graham. But he was also a guy that was always near the top of the card and had probably close to a 20 year career. So unless someone wants to come along and defend Ox Baker, what other guys fit this mold? I'm thinking along the lines of Rufus R. Jones, Tiger Jeet Singh, those types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 The Sheik would be a controversial pick but he gets mentioned a lot in these sort of discussions. Bobo Brazil was even worse than Rufus from what I've seen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpchicago23 Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 I know people will defend him but i never understood why Virgil had a job in a major promotion for as long as he did. I think he is one wrestler i have no desire to ever watch and he would make me change the channel if he were wrestling. In WCW it was even worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Virgil was pretty good by late 92, including some of the best jobber matches of that year where he was just tossing guys around, but he really shines in 98-99 on Saturday Night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 The Sheik would be a controversial pick but he gets mentioned a lot in these sort of discussions.Why pick Sheik, when you've got his off-brand equivalent sitting right there with Tiger Jeet Singh? All the weaknesses, none of the strengths. Singh, Big Daddy, and maybe Vampiro are the only guys who come to mind as legitimate top superstars who were also incompetently bad wrestlers. Even a non-working stiff like Jesse Ventura is on another level compared to those three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpchicago23 Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 I could put Konnan in there too but at least he was over in 98 although most people were over in 98. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Big Daddy could work. Folks sometimes say that he wasn't that bad a worker in his younger days and mine eyes have seen the proof with the Elijah match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted February 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 I could put Konnan in there too but at least he was over in 98 although most people were over in 98.Konnan is a good pick. It doesn't matter if they were over. Rufus R. Jones was over in places. Ox Baker had to have been over somewhere. I can't think of any good Konnan matches, at least not any that he directly contributed to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpchicago23 Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 ok well if being over doesnt matter then yes i would say Konnan is one of the top guys who got away with it. Some of his stuff with the WCW luchadores in the beginning was decent at best but i dont think any of it was his doing. They just bumped their ass off for him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Big Daddy could work. Folks sometimes say that he wasn't that bad a worker in his younger days and mine eyes have seen the proof with the Elijah match.Is that match online? Because the half-dozen Daddy matches I've seen have all been just awful, atrocious negative-star affairs in which Britannia's biggest superstar looks like an embarrassing obese backyarder. Admittedly they were all from his later years in the 70s and 80s; but that was the time of his biggest fame and popularity, when everyone from the Queen to Thatcher publicly spoke of being fans of his. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 The Harris Brothers. Couldn't work, couldn't talk, had no charisma, never drew a dime, couldn't make anyone look good. Yet got and stayed employed in both major companies and the two biggest small compagnies during the 90's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Surprised Dylan hasn't mentioned HHH yet. Was JYD ever actively good as a worker? I mean I've seen him in 83 when he's not as completely worthless as he was in the late-80s, but was he good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 The Harris Brothers. Couldn't work, couldn't talk, had no charisma, never drew a dime, couldn't make anyone look good. Yet got and stayed employed in both major companies and the two biggest small compagnies during the 90's.I don't think those guys are nearly bad enough to list here. They were not very good and I usually fast-forwarded through their matches, but think of them compared to oh let's say Tank Abbott or late-90s Piper or most of the Divas or botchtastic indy wannabes with Hot Topic gear or Great Khali or other truly world-class bad workers. If nothing else, the Harrises were easy to work with; I can speak from personal experience here, they once booted me in the face and H-bombed me and I never felt a thing. They're just more on the Brody shelf of "their work doesn't come near their look". Surprised Dylan hasn't mentioned HHH yet.Nobody who has been in several arguably-great matches really belongs in a worst-of-all-time lineup, do they? Was JYD ever actively good as a worker? I mean I've seen him in 83 when he's not as completely worthless as he was in the late-80s, but was he good?He was fine as a Southern brawler. I don't think he was ever great, but he was perfectly enjoyable in a "wild tag donnybrook that gets out of control" sort of way. Even some of his earlier WWF work is okay, he was in the MOTN on the second Wrestlemania (which had less to do with him than with his partner and Terry Funk, but still JYD certainly didn't ruin it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpchicago23 Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 The Harris Brothers. Couldn't work, couldn't talk, had no charisma, never drew a dime, couldn't make anyone look good. Yet got and stayed employed in both major companies and the two biggest small compagnies during the 90's. I completely agree with this. They were change the channel bad. If someone doesnt have at least a few matches or memorable moments that pique my interest than to me they're useless. To me thats how i feel about the Harris Bros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 The Harris Brothers. Couldn't work, couldn't talk, had no charisma, never drew a dime, couldn't make anyone look good. Yet got and stayed employed in both major companies and the two biggest small compagnies during the 90's.I don't think those guys are nearly bad enough to list here. They were not very good and I usually fast-forwarded through their matches, but think of them compared to oh let's say Tank Abbott or late-90s Piper or most of the Divas or botchtastic indy wannabes with Hot Topic gear or Great Khali or other truly world-class bad workers. I've now seen shitloads of Harris Bros matches from pretty much every territory and to me they are that bad. And boring as hell to, which is the killer. They are not even entertainly bad, they are just bad and boring. Bottom of the barrel workers to me. If nothing else, the Harrises were easy to work with; I can speak from personal experience here, they once booted me in the face and H-bombed me and I never felt a thing. They're just more on the Brody shelf of "their work doesn't come near their look". Well, that's a good point from a co-worker point of view, which I can respect, but that being said, Boogie Woogie Man was also probably super safe to work with. And so was Lance Storm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 And since I have a Disciple match running in the corner of my computer screen, well Ed Leslie is a good candidate too. What a shitty worker. His best years probably came during the Dream Team era, and that was 99,99% Valentine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Standard line with Leslie is that pre-injury he was serviceable and post- he was dogshit. He was really over though as The Barber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpride Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 The Harris' also landed a gig in TNA. Isn't one of them a Nazi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MojoJsyn Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Bruti is a really good pick. He worked for the two biggest promotions for 15 years. You could say he was really over from 87-89 but that was only 3 years of 15 and also he sucked ass in the ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted February 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 The Harris Brothers. Couldn't work, couldn't talk, had no charisma, never drew a dime, couldn't make anyone look good. Yet got and stayed employed in both major companies and the two biggest small compagnies during the 90's. I completely agree with this. They were change the channel bad. If someone doesnt have at least a few matches or memorable moments that pique my interest than to me they're useless. To me thats how i feel about the Harris Bros. I don't think the Harris Brothers are bad enough to qualify, nor do I think they were really big enough stars to fit the thread. Ed Leslie is a good pick. I can't think of one really good match he was in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Standard line with Leslie is that pre-injury he was serviceable and post- he was dogshit. He was really over though as The Barber. Who was a bigger WWF star? Duggan or Beefcake. To me, Beefcake being in the WWE HOF is a no brainer. He was a long time tag team champ, one of the top babyfaces in 87-90 and was super over. Sure, he was terrible in the ring but that doesn't matter. I'm not sure which of the two had the bigger feuds, Duggan had Sheik and Volkoff, Andre, Bravo, Haku, Savage, Earthquake, Slaughter, Nasty Boys, and Yoko, basically. Beefcake had Valentine, Honky, Bass, Rude, Savage, Dibiase, Martel, Perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 I think Beefcake and Duggan were used in different ways. Duggan was typically a mid-card face who could pop the crowd who was used to put over the latest heel on the scene, usually as a pre-text to Hogan feud. He was a sort of lower card mini-Hogan (who lost matches) who'd help to build guys up for actual Hogan to take down. Beefcake was more of a guy who would have his own feuds and come out on top of them, often giving someone a haircut in the blow off. He didn't put guys over to anywhere near the same extent. For example, even vs. bigger name heels like DiBiase he didn't eat a pin but got a double count out draw at Mania. So all in all, undoubtedly, Beefcake was the bigger star. At least in how he was booked and used on the roster. Being Hogan's "friend till the end" didn't hurt him either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 As someone who watched every bit of AJPW that made tape from the 1980s, I can attest that Tiger Jeet Singh is a great pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 It took Charles Wright forever to get over. They just kept repackaging him over and over. Even then, The Godfather had limited appeal. I don't hate him or anything. I think he was really effective as an opening match guy. But wow, he was bad in the ring for a very long time without ever getting better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Faulconer Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Konnan was much better in Mexico than he was in WCW/TNA. He was bigger than a lot of luchadores and the "Konnan el Barbario" gimmick worked over there. He was too small to work the same gimmick in the US. He had plenty of decent to good matches before he became the catchphrase machine in the Wolfpac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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