Blazer Posted April 6, 2014 Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 We've all got opinions on what wrestling is great, good or poor. Some of us just happen to be right more than others. That being said, there's a pretty big consensus that certain matches are great for their time, promotion, or all-timers. I'm curious what widely praised match just never clicked with you, and whether you could identify why. Leading things off for me: Ricky Steamboat vs. Randy Savage (Wrestlemania 3, 3/29/1987): Mania is this weekend so might as well start with one that is generally considered in the upper echelon of mania matches. This always comes across as a smartly constructed and executed match without any major flaws. You've got a hot feud, top domestic performers and arguably the biggest stage up to this point in time. But every time I've watched, this feels like a very good version of your "extended match in Raw hour #2." Outside of a couple flare ups, there's no heightened intensity to speak of. No high spots teased and worked towards throughout the match, and a finish that feels pretty pedestrian given the stakes and story. Its possible I might think higher of this if I was a fan at the time, following the feud then and accustomed to the NWA/WWF product that was available up to that point in 1987. On the other hand, I can probably name over 10 Steamboat matches from his '90s WCW run alone that I prefer to this which don't exactly fit the mold of modern WWE main event style, or anything from Japan over the last few decades that I love and have since consumed in copious amounts. Just unbelievable. I saw the match live on closed circuit, and it blew me away at age 14. I watched it a month ago and still loved it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 HHH vs Austin, 3 Stages of Hell. It's the perfect example of a bloated self indulgent HHH Epic. I honestly can't even sit through it in one sitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 HHH vs Austin, 3 Stages of Hell. It's the perfect example of a bloated self indulgent HHH Epic. I honestly can't even sit through it in one sitting. Hah, some of us on the board just watched that a few weeks ago. I thought it was pretty good actually, but nowhere near the "great, epic match" it was hyped as at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steenalized Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Judging by the reactions I'm seeing since last night, I'll throw in Bryan-Triple H. I don't think it was bad and it wasn't the oft-hated Triple H self-indulgent wankfest, but I still didn't care for it. It ended well, about from the build into the tiger suplex, but there's a big chunk in the middle that I really didn't care for. Him offering a handshake to start the match was a great move, I'll say that. And the superbly over the top entrance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 I'm curious as to how many of those who professed to find Savage/Steamboat at WM3 underwhelming have seen the previous month's match between the two from Toronto. Anyway, my pick would be the M-Pro 10-man from These Days. I've never actually watched it in its entirety. Every time I try, I turn it off after like five minutes because it bores me to tears. Then again, flippy juniors wrestling in general doesn't really do anything for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 The Martel vs. Rose match that everyone went ga-ga over a few months back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Kerry v flair in the cage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho from Wrestlemania 19. I haven't seen it in a few years, but I never thought it was very good. Even back when I was a big fan of both guys I thought it was just OK. I think I'm going to rewatch it this week and see how I feel about it now, but I've seen in a few times and I've never understood the praise it got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 Kerry v flair in the cage. YES!! Dude, this match PISSES me off...I get it get kicked off the feud and all....but HOLY FUCK was it fucked up after the cage door slams...Kerry should have been out, and Flair either pins him or slaps on the figure 4 (since Kerry had the bad knee) and Kerry is out and gets counted down.. Instead Kerry actually gets some offense in before the match is stopped...the ending is a clusterfuck and should not have ended that way....I know they were WAY over so it didnt matter, but man, that should have been WAY better ending to really push the fact that the Birds DIRECTLY caused Kerry to be pinned or passed out... AND...one punch from Hayes and Flair is out long enouigh for them to argue for a few minutes? Come on...that sucks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 I remember people raving about the Benoit / Michaels / HHH at Mania as being an all time classic once it was over. To be it was a great match, but lets not get carried away... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BP) Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 I just watched Mania 20, and the main didn't really hold up for me. I loved all three of them at the time, but I've cooled on HHH/HBK, and that just leaves Benoit. His presence didn't bother me, but it was difficult getting into a lot of his stuff. I actually enjoyed Eddie/Angle more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted April 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 Given the results of the DVDVR poll, I don't expect a lot of support on this one, but what about the Duggan/Dibiase 1000 gimmicks on a pole match from Mid South? Recently watched it for the first time on the WWE's Mid South set and it wasn't at all the classic I was anticipating. This is probably a case of the match being built up to such impossible standards through hearing about it over the years, but I expected the violence of Tully/Magnum mixed with Cactus/HHH and some all time heat. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the hell out of it. But when it was done I thought I'd watched a really great brawl, not an all time classic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russellmania Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 I've hammered my general distaste for shootstyle to death, in the Yearbook forums and in the old '80s Project forums. But Maeda vs. Fujiwara in '87 NJPW might be the match I differed with consensus on the most. I thought it was a meandering, boring mess even in comparison to the other UWF-in-NJPW matches. Always had trouble with Benoit vs. Sasuke in the J-Cup Finals. As in, when I first watched it, in like 1999. I don't think I've ever seen it in isolation, it's always followed a run of other really good juniors matches, and it's never stood out. That card peaked with Sasuke vs. Liger, and when I watched the 3 Sasuke matches just recently I came away not being convinced it was even as good as Sasuke-Samurai. Have to agree on the Bret-Owen cage match. I thought it was boring and overlong when I watched it live (though the post-match was aces) and I haven't been compelled to revisit it. I'm viewing the '94 Yearbook now and getting through that match again already sounds like a chore. Ah this is my best response. Benoit/Sasuke was cool as an intro to puro in 1997 when I was a kid and hadn't seen anything like it at the time, but in hindsight it's a boring, emotionless match and even before Benoit-gate I had no desire to ever see it again. The Liger/Sasuke match from that show blows it out of the water and that's arguably not even the best Liger/Sasuke match from that year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 Given the results of the DVDVR poll, I don't expect a lot of support on this one, but what about the Duggan/Dibiase 1000 gimmicks on a pole match from Mid South? Recently watched it for the first time on the WWE's Mid South set and it wasn't at all the classic I was anticipating. This is probably a case of the match being built up to such impossible standards through hearing about it over the years, but I expected the violence of Tully/Magnum mixed with Cactus/HHH and some all time heat. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the hell out of it. But when it was done I thought I'd watched a really great brawl, not an all time classic. This is a match that gets a lot better when you watch the feud in context. If you don't know why they are wearing the tuxedos, or don't know why the crowd goes so nuts when DiBiase goes to slide out, bumps his feet against the Cage and remembers he can't run as Duggan just looks at him like "yea, you're screwed" then you aren't going to think it's as a great as people who saw the buildup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 I really liked Wrestlemania 20's main event when it happened but I've really cooled on it since. The last time I watched it I was really taken aback by how much I used to like it. It isn't anything special to me now. I think the emotional payoff when it happened caused a lot of people to seriously overrate it. Eddie & Benoit were my favorite wrestlers when I was a kid so I was in heaven at that time. Given the results of the DVDVR poll, I don't expect a lot of support on this one, but what about the Duggan/Dibiase 1000 gimmicks on a pole match from Mid South? Recently watched it for the first time on the WWE's Mid South set and it wasn't at all the classic I was anticipating. This is probably a case of the match being built up to such impossible standards through hearing about it over the years, but I expected the violence of Tully/Magnum mixed with Cactus/HHH and some all time heat. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the hell out of it. But when it was done I thought I'd watched a really great brawl, not an all time classic. On the other hand, the "Duggan/Dibiase 1000 gimmicks on a pole match" really impressed me. I thought it was awesome. It had a lot of hype to live up to and it definitely did. You mentioned Tully & Magnum's I Quit match. That's the ultimate answer for me. I've never gotten why it is so highly regarded. It's THE match that I'm the odd man out on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BP) Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 I'm glad someone else shouted out Magnum/Tully. It's a perfectly fine "two dudes punching and kicking in a cage," but that was it for me. To be fair, I didn't see most of the build for it, which is supposed to be really great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 I haven't seen any of the build. I should probably check all of that out and then revisit the match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted April 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 Fair point, Magnum/Tully is nowhere near any GOAT list for me, though I think its awesome. That heat and violence is off the charts. I feel like I'd appreciate it a ton more if I were growing up and following the product at that time. Maybe then I'd look at it like that era's Bret/Austin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 I'm going to agree with Magnum/Tully. I thought it was a good brawl with a compelling finish but I didn't think it was in some mythical "greatest match ever" category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 For me that's one of the few matches I would give 5* to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted April 11, 2014 Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 Bret/Austin I like, but would people love it as much if it didn't result in Austin turning babyface and becoming a star? I feel like I overrated it when going through 1997 stuff, as the crowd brawling just goes too long and takes me out of the match in some ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditch Posted April 11, 2014 Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 I can understand not liking a match that is primarily based on punching, but damn, it's GREAT punching. I'll second 'I Quit'. On my end, it seemed really anticlimactic, wasn't great as a brawl, and wasn't as good technically as the Survivor Series bout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted April 11, 2014 Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 Some of you people are on dope. It doesn't get better than Magnum/ Tully. And I can write up a pretty good synopsis of the build, which I'll do later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BP) Posted April 11, 2014 Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 I remember someone on the board had an email exchange with JJ where he answered questions about the Magnum/Tully feud. He kept it totally kayfabe too, which is awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted April 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 Bret/Austin I like, but would people love it as much if it didn't result in Austin turning babyface and becoming a star? Pretty sure the answer is no. But for those of us invested in the product at the time, this was as hot and awesome as it gets. I can understand someone who came along later or was out of the loop then not being as invested or finding this as amazing as it came off at the time. Post-Mania with the Foundation, HBK coming back and Austin a bigger focus get most of the '97 love, but man those Raws leading into Mania were something else. You had Shawn giving up the belt, Hart unofficially going heel and cursing out Vince on live television, Austin raising hell every week. Things took off like never before here. It all played into how the match at Mania came off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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