Matt D Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 And vice versa. I was listening to the Austin Podcast with Regal and he talked a lot about what he liked in wrestling and it got me thinking especially since Regal always champions a number of Indy jerks that I wouldn't want to watch if you paid me. A few notes: - Steamboat/Savage. Austin brought it up and Regal said he liked it right until he spoke to Steamboat and then they sort of moved on without going into detail but it has to be the script right? - Cardio. One thing that Regal brought up was how much Flair's cardio mattered to him. This is one reason that I've heard Flair, in the past, praise Brody. - Energy/Effort: He said at one point that he'd like any match where they were really trying hard. - Technique: Putting on a wristlock the correct way was a big deal to him. - Believability: This comes from his carny background. I'm just curious what people think about this. We've all heard a ton of interviews with wrestlers by now. I can't think of many things less important to me than cardio. To me, knowing your limits and working smartly within them is far more important than having incredible limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 I'm almost positive Steamboat/Savage has to do with it being so extensively planned out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 I imagine the big one is how light a wrestler works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Calling spots audibly enough that they can be heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 No one seems to give Cena crap for that. Austin rags on him for the STF though, which is funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Face Chicken Wing Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 How much fun the wrestler was to ride in a car with. It seems that workers who were fun traveling partners and could chug down a case of beer in the car get a couple extra points when fellow wrestlers evaluate their work in the ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 I imagine the big one is how light a wrestler works. Yep. As a worker I would sure want to work with the likes of Lance Storm and not Chris Jericho, for instance. Most of the Samoans have a reputation for being light as a feather, which is partly why they are so respected and appreciated by their fellow co-workers. Not exactly working "light", but I remember hearing that Kohji Kanemoto was super respected by his peers because he was extremely safe. I can see that being the most important factor. No matter how great we, unsuspecting watchers, think he is, working Stan Hansen must have been a nightmare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Well the ultimate may be the whole factor of drawing money...fans mainly care about how a match is worked while the wrestlers at least back in the day cared about who could draw and who couldn't because their money depended on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 I think the reason the ability to have a few beers and get recognized in airports and other bullshit is seen how it is is probably because I don't think wrestlers distinguish being good in the ring from being good overall. I think they're more inclined to look at the overall package. And wrestlers who can live their gimmick around the clock amidst a brutal travel schedule are going to be respected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 How much fun the wrestler was to ride in a car with. It seems that workers who were fun traveling partners and could chug down a case of beer in the car get a couple extra points when fellow wrestlers evaluate their work in the ring. Maybe this is the secret reason Ray Stevens gets praised as an all-time great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 The drawing aspect isn't so surprising to me, that and legit toughness (Haku, Rude) or general outside success (Rock, Ventura) or what sort of legitimacy they can bring wrestling (Angle, Brock), or how good they were to you when you were coming up (Wahoo for Manny, for instance). That said, I do think we've seen far more of wrestlers talking about the art of pro wrestling and actually working in the ring over the last couple of years, which is something that really wasn't even there a lot in the shoot interviews of the 00s, so it lets us look at how things are viewed slightly differently. Some of that is because it's wrestlers interviewing each other now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Lacelle Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Speak for yourself with regards to technique, a poorly executed move can take me right out of the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 That's fine and understandable. I tend to see wrestling as symbolic. I get that some people don't, but I think the level that Regal was talking about, in as how a wristlock is administered, is something most of us don't worry about too much. We just breeze past it, though if it's done particularly well, we'll probably notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 This seems like a thread intended for Randy Orton. Bores the shit out of fans but workers trip over themselves praising this guy. I don't get it... Yes, he's good in the ring, but everyone is sick of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 If a worker is easy to work with then he is beloved by the other guys whether he is good or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 The Argument for Kane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Is there one ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Professionalism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 I've heard the planning the match argument before from fans as well as professionals and it tends to ring hollow with me. So Savage and Steamboat put together a match that stole the show at the biggest event in wrestling history and I'm supposed to be upset that it wasn't called on the fly? Considering the stage which was beyond huge and the constraints that they must have been under, it makes sense for that amount of planning to go into the performance. I'm sure they worked variations of that match around the horn, cutting and adding stuff wherever needed. And in the end, it worked didn't it? They still had to go out and do it didn't they? If it was so easy to just put matches together like Savage and Steamboat and make classics, people would be doing it. Other than that, I think wrestlers care primarily about their opponents taking care of them in the ring. With the grind and schedule of WWE guys, I'm sure this is doubly important but even Ricky Morton wants to be able to work the next weekend. I think this was the main bone of contention when Lance Storm took issue with the DVDVR 500 back in the day especially when it was loving up on Kawada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 - Steamboat/Savage. Austin brought it up and Regal said he liked it right until he spoke to Steamboat and then they sort of moved on without going into detail but it has to be the script right? I adore Regal, but has he EVER had a match as good as Savage/Steamboat? Steamboat himself was down on the match for years because it was pre-planned, which really comes across as one of those dumb things wrestlers value that don't actually enhance the product in any way. Might explain why Savage drew a boatload of money and Steamer never really did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Another thing of value is probably who has a good connection to a 'mark' doctor and pharmacist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 I've heard the planning the match argument before from fans as well as professionals and it tends to ring hollow with me. So Savage and Steamboat put together a match that stole the show at the biggest event in wrestling history and I'm supposed to be upset that it wasn't called on the fly? Considering the stage which was beyond huge and the constraints that they must have been under, it makes sense for that amount of planning to go into the performance. I'm sure they worked variations of that match around the horn, cutting and adding stuff wherever needed. And in the end, it worked didn't it? They still had to go out and do it didn't they? If it was so easy to just put matches together like Savage and Steamboat and make classics, people would be doing it. Other than that, I think wrestlers care primarily about their opponents taking care of them in the ring. With the grind and schedule of WWE guys, I'm sure this is doubly important but even Ricky Morton wants to be able to work the next weekend. I think this was the main bone of contention when Lance Storm took issue with the DVDVR 500 back in the day especially when it was loving up on Kawada. From a philosophical point of view, I agree and I don't think it matters to fans. How would we know unless we were told anyway? I can see wrestlers having differing opinions on it. I remember Steve Austin said wrestlers once worked (meaning feeling out the crowd and improvising based on what is getting over and what isn't) and now they perform (come up with something pre-planned and execute it). With an example like Savage/Steamboat, it went off without a hitch and it didn't feel soulless or rehearsed or anything of the sort, so yeah, no harm done. But when HHH tears his quad in the DX vs Orton/Edge match at New Years Revolution 2007 and Randy Orton has no idea what to do since the match layout they planned in advance was out the window, it stands out. I don't think there's anything wrong with laying out a match in advance, but a great wrestler should probably be able to switch gears when the situation calls for it. Chris Jericho was so proud of his match with Shelton Benjamin at Taboo Tuesday in 2004 because he was put in a position where he had to call it entirely on the fly. But that used to be how all matches were worked, at least if you take the vets at their word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 - Steamboat/Savage. Austin brought it up and Regal said he liked it right until he spoke to Steamboat and then they sort of moved on without going into detail but it has to be the script right? I adore Regal, but has he EVER had a match as good as Savage/Steamboat? Steamboat himself was down on the match for years because it was pre-planned, which really comes across as one of those dumb things wrestlers value that don't actually enhance the product in any way. Might explain why Savage drew a boatload of money and Steamer never really did. I very much doubt that Savage drawing more than Steamboat had anything to do with their working styles. Of course wrestlers who care about their craft are going to respect the ability to work on the fly the same way musicians respect other musicians' ability to improvise and method actors contrasted from the star factory types who memorized their lines and hit their marks. Steamboat obviously didn't enjoy working that way. It's no different to watching a film you think is great only to find the people involved didn't enjoy working with each other. Obviously, it shouldn't matter to fans of the match, but I can understand the wrestlers' POV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 - Steamboat/Savage. Austin brought it up and Regal said he liked it right until he spoke to Steamboat and then they sort of moved on without going into detail but it has to be the script right? I adore Regal, but has he EVER had a match as good as Savage/Steamboat? Regal-Arn at SuperBrawl and Regal-Finlay at Uncensored are damn close if not there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moazzam23 Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 I prefer all 4 of his matches with Ambrose, Hero and Cesaro to Savage /Steamboat but that's probably just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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