Greatest of All-Time project Interest?

[BillThompson]

I like the more simplified approach we're currently going with. I feel that if we keep splintering it and making the process more complicated then it will become more like a job than a fun project.

[tim]

If you're going to participate in a project of this scope you should be prepared to do some leg work. If it's just a 100 workers we like, we can submit the ballots this week.

 

Agreed. But given the disposition of the people on this forum, and other people who would be likely to come in and vote on this, I don't think this is anything that needs to be formally codified or something. It's an issue that solves itself in that the majority of people voting will WANT to do this and would consider it a natural part of voting.

[anarchistxx]

The list is pretty pointless if it is just us all throwing something out off the top of our heads. People need to be filling gaps and watching stuff and having a varied perspective on things. If you only ever read crime fiction than your contribution to a 'Greatest Novels of All Time List' is at best limited and a worst totally worthless. If I participated I'd need to put in probably 200+ hours of watching if not a lot more to bring myself up to speed.

 

Pimping threads are necessary also.

 

In my opinion a 'Greatest Match Of All Time List' holds more interest and merit, as it provides people with a fantastic reference point for matches to explore, the debate is more specific. Plus it hasn't been done as widely. The best way to do it might be to have everyone make a list, and then the Top 100 is watched by everyone and another ballot is taken on that specifically.

[Matt D]

I'm mostly kidding. I'll obviously watch whatever I feel like I need to and fill in holes. That said I will probably go to certain people for advice on certain areas because even with a few years leadtime I have to be smart with my time.

[Jimmy Redman]

Yeah I'm another one who is interested in participating, but would have to do an ENORMOUS amount of watching to cover what are for me massive, massive gaps. For instance, practically the entire 90s in wrestling. All of lucha. All of joshi. Etc.

 

Like, I just looked at the old Smarkschoice list (no spoilers) and at the moment I'd feel able to confidently vote on or otherwise rate maybe 10% of those names.

 

And this is something I've always wanted to rectify, so I guess a project like this would be a good excuse to get started on that.

[Matt D]

I have so much Stan Hansen to watch.

[Childs]

The list is pretty pointless if it is just us all throwing something out off the top of our heads. People need to be filling gaps and watching stuff and having a varied perspective on things. If you only ever read crime fiction than your contribution to a 'Greatest Novels of All Time List' is at best limited and a worst totally worthless. If I participated I'd need to put in probably 200+ hours of watching if not a lot more to bring myself up to speed.

 

Pimping threads are necessary also.

 

In my opinion a 'Greatest Match Of All Time List' holds more interest and merit, as it provides people with a fantastic reference point for matches to explore, the debate is more specific. Plus it hasn't been done as widely. The best way to do it might be to have everyone make a list, and then the Top 100 is watched by everyone and another ballot is taken on that specifically.

 

Between the '80s projects and the year-by-year threads on this very site, there are a shit ton of references for great matches. Because of the specificity and the vast numbers, a 100 greatest matches poll would barely scratch the surface of that question and likely yield a list of stuff that's already familiar. You end up covering a lot more ground and opening up richer discussion with great workers.

 

One thing we might want to consider Will, Loss, etc. is opening up the archived nomination folders for the past DVDVR projects. Those reviews could offer an interesting reference for people wishing to explore certain workers or periods. Just a thought.

[JerryvonKramer]

I'm all for baseline entry requirements, because if I'm going to watch 00s and 10s shit, then other people can bloody well fill their gaps too!

[goodhelmet]

 

The list is pretty pointless if it is just us all throwing something out off the top of our heads. People need to be filling gaps and watching stuff and having a varied perspective on things. If you only ever read crime fiction than your contribution to a 'Greatest Novels of All Time List' is at best limited and a worst totally worthless. If I participated I'd need to put in probably 200+ hours of watching if not a lot more to bring myself up to speed.

 

Pimping threads are necessary also.

 

In my opinion a 'Greatest Match Of All Time List' holds more interest and merit, as it provides people with a fantastic reference point for matches to explore, the debate is more specific. Plus it hasn't been done as widely. The best way to do it might be to have everyone make a list, and then the Top 100 is watched by everyone and another ballot is taken on that specifically.

 

Between the '80s projects and the year-by-year threads on this very site, there are a shit ton of references for great matches. Because of the specificity and the vast numbers, a 100 greatest matches poll would barely scratch the surface of that question and likely yield a list of stuff that's already familiar. You end up covering a lot more ground and opening up richer discussion with great workers.

 

One thing we might want to consider Will, Loss, etc. is opening up the archived nomination folders for the past DVDVR projects. Those reviews could offer an interesting reference for people wishing to explore certain workers or periods. Just a thought.

 

 

When I am finished with the 80s sets, I'll open them up.

[Superstar Sleeze]

The list is pretty pointless if it is just us all throwing something out off the top of our heads. People need to be filling gaps and watching stuff and having a varied perspective on things. If you only ever read crime fiction than your contribution to a 'Greatest Novels of All Time List' is at best limited and a worst totally worthless. If I participated I'd need to put in probably 200+ hours of watching if not a lot more to bring myself up to speed.

 

Pimping threads are necessary also.

 

In my opinion a 'Greatest Match Of All Time List' holds more interest and merit, as it provides people with a fantastic reference point for matches to explore, the debate is more specific. Plus it hasn't been done as widely. The best way to do it might be to have everyone make a list, and then the Top 100 is watched by everyone and another ballot is taken on that specifically.

 

I suck at ranking wrestlers. I feel much more confident ranking matches. I am more inclined to do a GOAT match list. Maybe we could do these in parallel.

 

As for me, holes are Lucha Libre,, Joshi, World of Sport, and most shoot-style. After all this 00s Japan watching, I am going to need a looooooooooooooooooong break from puroresu even though I absolutely love it.

[efrim]

Not really. It's a balancing act. I'm not really out to capture general consensus as much as I am to be as fair as possible. And I'm not solipsistic enough to think all wrestling is created just for me and my enjoyment.

 

It is a balancing act. My experience with doing message board lists like this is musicians and albums (even more subjective but some similarities). On one hand, you don't want to be so myopic that you don't even throw a bone to a band like The Beatles, but on the other you don't want to pre-bland your list by leaning too hard on conventional wisdom. Individual lists should have a unique voice and some level of quark, in my opinion they tend to be much more interesting than the final aggregated product.

[JerryvonKramer]

How far does one take it though? I loathe jazz with a passion and, despite recognising the greatness of Miles Davies, I would feel totally dishonest including him in any top 100 of mine. I can see some scenarios like that coming up on wrestling lists. There are certain styles that some of us don't care for.

[ohtani's jacket]

Loathing jazz with a passion is stupid because jazz is so broad that within the style there's bound to be something you like if you'd only bother to listen to it. Wrestling styles are the same. Even if you don't like joshi or lucha there is bound to be one or two workers that are the exception. For non-Joshi fans that used to be Aja Kong. You don't have to watch every highly pimped Joshi match ever to discover whether you like Aja Kong.

 

With the advent of You Tube we shouldn't even be having these discussions. Back in 2005 there was practically NOTHING on You Tube. As far as I'm concerned, you read the pimping threads, you check something out, and if you don't like it that's fine but at least you gave it a shot.

[Matt D]

 

I suck at ranking wrestlers. I feel much more confident ranking matches. I am more inclined to do a GOAT match list. Maybe we could do these in parallel.

 

As for me, holes are Lucha Libre,, Joshi, World of Sport, and most shoot-style. After all this 00s Japan watching, I am going to need a looooooooooooooooooong break from puroresu even though I absolutely love it.

 

 

Martin,

 

Once we hit January or so, let's do a mini joshi project or something.

[Loss]

 

The list is pretty pointless if it is just us all throwing something out off the top of our heads. People need to be filling gaps and watching stuff and having a varied perspective on things. If you only ever read crime fiction than your contribution to a 'Greatest Novels of All Time List' is at best limited and a worst totally worthless. If I participated I'd need to put in probably 200+ hours of watching if not a lot more to bring myself up to speed.

 

Pimping threads are necessary also.

 

In my opinion a 'Greatest Match Of All Time List' holds more interest and merit, as it provides people with a fantastic reference point for matches to explore, the debate is more specific. Plus it hasn't been done as widely. The best way to do it might be to have everyone make a list, and then the Top 100 is watched by everyone and another ballot is taken on that specifically.

 

I suck at ranking wrestlers. I feel much more confident ranking matches. I am more inclined to do a GOAT match list. Maybe we could do these in parallel.

 

As for me, holes are Lucha Libre,, Joshi, World of Sport, and most shoot-style. After all this 00s Japan watching, I am going to need a looooooooooooooooooong break from puroresu even though I absolutely love it.

 

 

For the record, I do agree with this. But I still like the idea of doing this not so much for the final ranking but because it will create some fun threads.

 

That said, comparisons of Ric Flair and Bret Hart are not allowed.

[JerryvonKramer]

Loathing jazz with a passion is stupid because jazz is so broad that within the style there's bound to be something you like if you'd only bother to listen to it. Wrestling styles are the same. Even if you don't like joshi or lucha there is bound to be one or two workers that are the exception. For non-Joshi fans that used to be Aja Kong. You don't have to watch every highly pimped Joshi match ever to discover whether you like Aja Kong.

 

With the advent of You Tube we shouldn't even be having these discussions. Back in 2005 there was practically NOTHING on You Tube. As far as I'm concerned, you read the pimping threads, you check something out, and if you don't like it that's fine but at least you gave it a shot.

I don't mind Jimmy Smith's Back at the Chicken Shack, I suppose. And Birdland by Weather Report. But in general I detest most jazz I've listened to -- well over a 100 albums, which is the point at which I give up.

[Exposer]

I'm absolutely in on this, but it's to require a lot of re-watching. Of course, I have gaps to fill as well, particularly in the 80s, but I'll need to re-watch some things to reevaluate certain workers. There's plenty of time in front of us to accomplish all of that which is great.

[efrim]

I'm in on this as well. I'll probably keep to less than 100 and still do a ton of watching just to try to catch up to board average, but there's never been a better or easier time to consume large amounts of wrestling.

[evilclown]

Where can we talk about how Ricky Steamboat is the most boring, predictable and overrated wrestler ever?

[Matt D]

Where can we talk about how Ricky Steamboat is the most boring, predictable and overrated wrestler ever?

 

Here works.

[Grimmas]

Where can we talk about how Ricky Steamboat is the most boring, predictable and overrated wrestler ever?

 

There will be a sub forum up soon and all of the talk can go in there.

[Loss]

Deeeeeeep armdrag.

[Superstar Sleeze]

 

 

I suck at ranking wrestlers. I feel much more confident ranking matches. I am more inclined to do a GOAT match list. Maybe we could do these in parallel.

 

As for me, holes are Lucha Libre,, Joshi, World of Sport, and most shoot-style. After all this 00s Japan watching, I am going to need a looooooooooooooooooong break from puroresu even though I absolutely love it.

 

 

Martin,

 

Once we hit January or so, let's do a mini joshi project or something.

 

 

I'm game. I have never watched a Joshi match in my life and really ought to have by now. We can use yearbooks to help us in the 90s and I am sure there is a way to figure out the most famous 80s matches.

[ohtani's jacket]

 

Loathing jazz with a passion is stupid because jazz is so broad that within the style there's bound to be something you like if you'd only bother to listen to it. Wrestling styles are the same. Even if you don't like joshi or lucha there is bound to be one or two workers that are the exception. For non-Joshi fans that used to be Aja Kong. You don't have to watch every highly pimped Joshi match ever to discover whether you like Aja Kong.

 

With the advent of You Tube we shouldn't even be having these discussions. Back in 2005 there was practically NOTHING on You Tube. As far as I'm concerned, you read the pimping threads, you check something out, and if you don't like it that's fine but at least you gave it a shot.

I don't mind Jimmy Smith's Back at the Chicken Shack, I suppose. And Birdland by Weather Report. But in general I detest most jazz I've listened to -- well over a 100 albums, which is the point at which I give up.

 

 

So you don't like vocal jazz, jazz-funk or soul jazz? You don't even like jazz in hip hop? I wonder.

[JerryvonKramer]

Well let's not get too far off topic, but in general I think a lot of the jazz-rap stuff is very overrated, especially De La Soul and early Tribe. Not really my scene. I will say that I like Pete Rock and CL Smooth's Mecca and the Soul Brother, which has jazz-y elements.

 

But I see what you are saying, if "jazz" includes people from Frank Sinatara to Norah Jones and Amy Whinehouse, then sure, there are some more "jazz" records that I like.

 

But I am generally opposed to the ethos and "philosophy" behind jazz, which I see as mostly being a slightly wanky form of showing off, I don't like 20-minute Prog-rock tracks with extended solos in them for the same reason. I'm against the general aesthetic.

 

In a desperate bid to tie this into wrestling, I'll say that for broadly the same reasons I am mostly disinclined to get behind exhibition-y Lucha matwork. I don't really care if its intricate and looks nice, it seems "a slightly wanky form of showing off" in much the same way that jazz does. I'd probably even take boring, repetitive and unimaginative Backlund matwork over the most excessive of the Lucha stuff.