Mitsuharu Misawa

[elliott]

I ranked Mitsuharu Misawa #20 in 2016 and I'm fine with that. That Fuchi handheld I just watched the other day was really cool. I have nothing to add about Misawa. 

[bigyellowsinglet]

One thing which I think diminishes my opinion of Misawa compared to the other pillars is his selfishness and/or awkwardness when working with new or unusual opponents. His later-period singles matches against Fuyuki, Koshinaka, Chono, Kojima, Hase and Tenryu are all major marks against him. They are remarkably bad performances from someone who was still capable of having good matches.

[Tetsujin]

Yeah veteran Misawa is kinda cool, but honestly he doesn't have a very strong run. He also doesn't have a very strong Jr, Tiger Mask run. If you think about it, Misawa's case is all about peak, but the fun thing is his peak is absurdly long.

[strobogo]

There's some real interesting discussion back in 2015 about who viewed who as heel or face in the 90s and it is pretty baffling to me. I've never even seen discussion that Misawa was a heel, or Kawada was a face. Granted, I did not have much puro exposure in the 90s as all this stuff was actually happening. However I did know most big names from video games and a handful of tapes in the early 00s before it became much easier to see stuff online. But even then I knew Misawa was the super face and Kawada (and Taue) was a real dick head, grumpy heel. 

 

But just because a wrestler is a heel doesn't mean they can't have a chase and have fans think it is cool when they achieve their goal.  Particularly in puro, where heel wrestlers generally aren't cartoonishly evil guys like they were in American wrestling for so long. Kawada finally being Misawa is a lot different than say, the Million Dollar Man buying the WWF Championship. 

 

Tiger Misawa mostly sucks, tbh. Starts off pretty hot with some lucha dudes to make him look great, then he goes on a years stretch of mostly bland boring shit with the occasional burst of someone pissing him off and getting some fire out of him. As he bulks up to heavyweight, he's even slower and more bland for quite a while. There's no way anyone watching Tiger Mask Misawa could see that guy and think future GOAT. Except Baba, I guess.

[soup23]

Misawa is my highest ranked Japanese wrestler currently but his 2001 so far is diminishing the notion to me that he fell of a clip. More varied and top end matches than Kawada that year through June and he is top ten worldwide. Will see if it holds up but I didn’t expect that strong a finish from late era Misawa. 
 

In regards to late era Misawa’s singles matches, it’s a weak point for sure. The Hase match listed above is decisive but I think consensus has turned to think of it at least very good. The others are a mismatch of decent to good matches but almost are exclusively between past their prime workers. The biggest blemish I see is Tenryu bout. Tenryu was having an amazing run and that match is disappointing. 
 

Misawa first and foremost will be a peak candidate. He’s in my top 10 worldwide from 90-99. I don’t think I have anyone else with that distinction. It has been pleasant for me to revisit NOAH Misawa and find new wrinkles to enjoy from my favorite. . 

[Childs]

Though I agree Misawa's case is carried by his sublime peak, he was good enough often enough during his brokedown phase that I don't hold that against him. I have more trouble with his Tiger Mask period, because it wasn't short, and he really never figured it out. Injuries played a part in it, but for somebody who was understood to have vast potential, he delivered precious few memorable performances. It is a trouble spot when I compare him to the small group of guys who were in his league overall. 

[ohtani's jacket]

I have a problem with his facial hair during his broken down phase.

[Childs]

21 minutes ago, ohtani's jacket said:

I have a problem with his facial hair during his broken down phase.

So perhaps he should have put the mask back on? Fat Tiger.

[strobogo]

What's the last great Misawa match? 

[soup23]

1/4/09 for tag, 3/2/08 vs Morishima for singles 

[strobogo]

What I remember of the WK tag was Nakamura absolutely smoking him with a wheel kick or some shit that looked absolutely gnarly

[Jmare007]

Yeah that WK tag is fun as hell and Misawa is a big part of making it work.

[The Man in Blak]

I love Misawa, but I would say he’s decent at best in the WK3 tag and the match, as a whole, is kind of a mess. The other three work around 2009 Misawa’s limitations well enough, though yeah, Nakamura does absolutely blast Misawa with a spinning heel kick. I liked the finish of Goto finally being able to hold Misawa in check on the outside for Nakamura’s flash submission winafter Misawa held him for-freaking-ever during Sugiura’s ankle lock earlier; the first half of the match meanders a LOT though, including an exchange between Goto and Misawa that was depressingly loose.

I wouldn’t cite it as an achievement for Misawa, except that he was present and more active than, say, Tenryu lumbering around in his match with Okada. When you’re as good as Misawa was, though, isn’t that damning with faint praise?

[joeg]

I'm a lot higher on Misawa's late 90s/ early 2000s than most here I'd assume. I'd still put him as one of the top 5 in the world in 2004 ish. He was having good tag matches up until about a month before he died. His last GREAT match was the 07 Kobashi return tag match. His last good singles match was probably early 08 against Morishima. His last GREAT singles match was probably 04 vs Kojima. 

[GOTNW]

I don't want to waste time on canonical candidates, but the idea Misawa didn't have "great matches" as an older worker is just silly. Just in his last title run you have matches vs Marufuji, KENTA, Taue, Sano and Morishima that have had that rep. Honestly I'm not convinced Kobashi has a bigger resume of quality singles matches in NOAH.

If you're looking for weak spots, I think the idea he didn't "click" (i.e. find the solutions to work a match under the right dynamic) with everyone as he got older is much more fair. But I would punish him more for having a lackluster match with Rikioh than I would any of the matches mentioned, because that's when he absolutely should've performed. Nothing's gonna happen if you have a mid match with 2002 Chono, unless he's facing Hashimoto I'm not getting my hopes up. 

And honestly any good work he produced in 2008-2009 should probably count x2 considering Morishima nearly killed him in 2007.

[Boss Rock]

I agree with the belief that Tiger Mask is more of a blemish than post-04 Misawa. There were a few Tiger Mask matches that were fun (there's a match against Jumbo in particular, but big surprise, right?), but that's still a long time of not being a very notable worker. Compare that to Kobashi and Jun who picked things up much, much quicker. The last 5 years of Misawa's career aren't always easy to watch but I agree he still had a handful of really good matches. The '06 match against Morishima in particular is terrific.

[strobogo]

There's all these Tiger Mask matches and Misawa is throwing the weakest, shittiest, most awkward looking elbows and it is so bizarre every time.

[Jmare007]

Like I said in a previous post, I think Misawa is by far the most "flawed" n°1 level candidate. His candidacy is all about peak (that you can still poke some holes, like mainly working the same people for 10 years) so I wonder if the narrative of him flips this time around and folk talk more about everything surrounding his peak and ends up putting him way lower than last time around. Then again, it will also depend in how many people "discover" or revisit 90's All Japan this time around too.

 

[Boss Rock]

Even if my evaluation methods change or more footage of other potential contenders pop up, I can't fathom having Misawa lower than my top 10.

[joeg]

16 hours ago, GOTNW said:

I don't want to waste time on canonical candidates, but the idea Misawa didn't have "great matches" as an older worker is just silly. Just in his last title run you have matches vs Marufuji, KENTA, Taue, Sano and Morishima that have had that rep. Honestly I'm not convinced Kobashi has a bigger resume of quality singles matches in NOAH.

If you're looking for weak spots, I think the idea he didn't "click" (i.e. find the solutions to work a match under the right dynamic) with everyone as he got older is much more fair. But I would punish him more for having a lackluster match with Rikioh than I would any of the matches mentioned, because that's when he absolutely should've performed. Nothing's gonna happen if you have a mid match with 2002 Chono, unless he's facing Hashimoto I'm not getting my hopes up. 

And honestly any good work he produced in 2008-2009 should probably count x2 considering Morishima nearly killed him in 2007.

I remember he sharply declined in 07ish. What exactly happened with Morishima? 

[KB8]

Misawa was my number 8 in 2016, and he'll probably be a bit lower next time but I'm almost certain he'll be my highest of the 90s All Japan crew (unlike in 2016). I really can't be bothered spending a ton of time talking about the Pillars or whatever you want to call them, because it feels like I've been doing that for about 15 years and there are folk here who've been reading about them for even longer. At his best, Misawa was almost untouchable. In the '96 Tag League final, his performance might've been the greatest performance of any wrestler ever, how he portrayed a man who refused to go down while knowing that ultimately it was only a matter of time. He was Spartacus on the battlefield, advancing right until the last. 

 

MITSUHARU MISAWA YOU SHOULD WATCH:

v La Fiera (All Japan, 8/28/84)

w/Jumbo Tsuruta v Genichiro Tenryu & Hiromichi Fuyuki (All Japan, 1/14/90)

v Jumbo Tsuruta (All Japan, 6/8/90)

v Jumbo Tsuruta (All Japan, 9/1/90)

w/Toshiaki Kawada v Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue (All Japan, 9/30/90)

w/Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi v Jumbo Tsuruta, Masa Fuchi & Akira Taue (All Japan, 4/20/91)

w/Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi v Jumbo Tsuruta, Masa Fuchi & Akira Taue (All Japan, 5/22/92)

v Toshiaki Kawada (All Japan, 3/27/93)

v Stan Hansen (All Japan, 5/21/93)

w/Kenta Kobashi v Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (All Japan, 12/3/93)

w/Kenta Kobashi v Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (All Japan, 5/21/94)

v Toshiaki Kawada (All Japan, 6/3/94)

v Akira Taue (All Japan, 4/15/95)

w/Kenta Kobashi v Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (All Japan, 6/9/95)

v Toshiaki Kawada (All Japan, 7/24/95)

w/Jun Akiyama v Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (All Japan, 12/6/96)

v Kenta Kobashi (All Japan, 1/20/97)

w/Jun Akiyama & Satoru Asako vs Toshiaki Kawada, Yoshinari Ogawa & Takao Omori (All Japan, 8/23/98)

v Kenta Kobashi (All Japan, 10/31/98)

v Toshiaki Kawada (All Japan, 1/22/99)

w/Yoshinari Ogawa v Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama (All Japan, 3/6/99)

v Jun Akiyama (NOAH, 2/27/00)

v Yoshihiro Takayama (NOAH, 9/23/02)

w/Kotaro Suzuki v Shinjiro Ohtani & Tatsuhito Takaiwa (NOAH, 3/5/05)

v Takeshi Morishima (NOAH, 3/5/06)

[MoS]

Cross-posting from the GWE reaction thread:

Bret's platonic ideal is Misawa whom I had at 15, and it is a bit silly that Misawa ranked below Bret, just like how it is silly that Hansen ranked below Austin. I know most people voted for Kobashi above Misawa, but Misawa was my highest ranked pillar (my highest ranked Japanese man was Jumbo at 5, and it is sad he fell, he was better at many different styles), and part of it is because of how good he was at, first, conveying his story/narrative first during his arc to unseat Jumbo, and then being the ace who kept taking on a bunch of challengers a bunch of times and keeping them at bay until finally passing the torch to Kobashi in 2003. Many have said it, but he truly is the best ace ever. Misawa was the best at conveying accumulated damage and long-term selling, he was the best at pacing his matches, he was the best at having his matches with the same opponent escalate and convey an overarching narrative. Kobashi was more flamboyant and perhaps jumped at the screen more, and it was funny to read Meltz's obituary of Misawa where he said "Kobashi was more popular and Kawada was a better wrestler but Misawa was always the top guy simply because Baba said so" as if even All-Japan fans would let someone be at the top for so many years (until all of them got stale tbh) just because Baba told them to. Misawa's connection with the fans was unshakeable and the most special, because he could be tremendous at both making challengers look great and also imposing his own authority on them at the end. Bret was tremendous at the former, not so much at the latter. It would also be wrong to say Misawa did not have charisma; he had a shit-ton of charisma, just a different kind, much like Bruno. Kobashi's work of escalation in his matches and subsequent evolution of his work as he progressed up the card was not as good at Misawa's imo. 

[EnviousStupid]

I had Misawa at 23 and he's never been my favourite of the Pillars, nor my favourite Ace (even just within the AJPW promotion). Though I have felt a need to point out what his strengths and qualities were in response to this pushback of him being too stoic or lax to appeal to those looking back. He's one of the best examples of an obstacle for other wrestlers to overcome. Figures like Vader and Aja Kong are worth note, but with Misawa he wasn't as tied to, nor defined by the archetype during that period. He was just the one pushed to take the mantle left by Jumbo, and he ran with it, fending off both his former stablemates and gaijin heavyweights for years. To the former, he was akin to this calm mountain standing tall for the more expressive and "flawed" wrestlers to climb atop. Someone whose contrasting persona magnified their most endearing qualities, whether intended as faces or heels. He could take beatings, get trampled on, struck down, but always had the arsenal to pull from that any move or strike he landed could change the landscape of a match. He endured the punishment better than most, knowing full well the kind of destructive power he himself wielded. And when we do see holes in his game take shape overtime, the emotions and expressions that leak out of him feel even more significant. He's not histrionic to the degree of a Jumbo, or Hashimoto in their respective falls from grace. He's more subdued in general, but that standard is in part what makes those moments just as if not more meaningful to watch play out. Knowing who he was, the role he was playing, and the crowd's undeniable love for him that was never not audible across all those matches throughout the years. The static character forced to be more dynamic when the apex is in sight. Wrestling isn't just about what we see, but also what we hear, what we know, and what we feel. Even when yearning for the Kawadas and Kobashis to get their due for so long, Misawa played his part in making us care to great effect. Perhaps better than anyone else would've.