Rey Mysterio Jr.

[Ryan Faulconer]

For me the 619 is pretty far down on the list WWE's sins against wrestling. I first saw Black Tiger III/Silver King do it in CMLL in 2001 and it seemed to work better as a heel spot...but Rey's is fine with me. Rey is just sad to watch now. He would be great replacing Vampiro on Lucha Underground. Like others have said the 619 shouldn't feel like more than a moment of personal agony on a two or three hour show with so much that is sillier and unbearable.

 

I'd put it far behind spots like...

 

The horrible tag team comeback spot that is always the same with the same style of punches and clotheslines. Wrestlers who have individual punching styles have to tow the company tag team line whenever comebacks or hot tags break down in a match. I used to enjoy tag team/multi-person tag matches more than singles matches in every company. In WWE I skip them unless it is a big match that is supposed to mean something beyond being filler.

 

Most signature spots have only one way to set them up. It changes a bit in a match that Vince is awake for. Randy Orton does a few different things for the RKO but that seems to be it.

 

I have been a huge fan of Cesaro's since 2006 but his finisher is the worst in the company. THAT is what we call a contrived and awkward setup and delivery. When I sense that his TV matches are ending I usually look away or change the channel.

 

The fact that secondary champions almost never win. I don't really care about the US/IC titles but the long losing streaks that every champion goes on when they win it is excrutiating to sit through. I missed all of Rey Jr.'s WWE Title run but from what I have read he suffered the same fate while he got the "big push".

 

And so on and so forth. I don't mean to derail the thread anymore than I have. I would put Rey in my Top 20 at worst. I don't know if I have the concentration to go through with the ranking the entire 100. That is the kind of fan that I am. I love me some big wrestling ranking lists.

 

I want to fill my Top 10 entirely with luchadores if I get through it all.

[ohtani's jacket]

]

Good thing to look forward to is in my opinion, the 6/23/05 Rey vs. Eddy Smackdown match is even better than the 3/28/04 match. The rest of the Eddy matches that summer are fun but they peak (and probably should have ended the feud) in June on SD.

 

Noble match from Velocity has always been a favorite. As close as WWE came to WCW in terms of telling two capable guys to go fill some time and they hit it out of the park.

I've seen the 2005 match once before, but it was so long ago that I can't remember much about it. I also remember loving the '06 match against Finlay and the Orton match.

[ohtani's jacket]

The entire Rey vs Eddie 2005 feud: SD 6th Jan, WM21, Judgment Day, SD 23rd June, GAB, Summerslam (Custody Ladder Match), SD 9th Sept (Cage)

Rey vs JBL, Smackdown 7th April 2005

Rey vs Shawn Michaels, Raw 14th Nov 2005

Rey & Dave vs MNM, Smackdown 16th Dec 2005

Rey & Dave vs MNM, Smackdown 30th Dec 2005

 

I'm guessing I didn't like Rey's 2005 as much as most people. The Angle match that Meltzer gave four stars was a case of diminishing returns between them. The Michaels match was a tribute match thus beyond critical appraisal, but not very good nonetheless. The JBL match-up was a breath of fresh air and well done, but unfortunately the year was dominated by the Eddie feud.

 

I actually don't know how people viewed the Guerrero feud at the time or even how it's viewed now, but IF it's supposed to be some sort of center piece for Rey's WWE run then count me as unimpressed. The 1/6 Smackdown match I thought was really good until the bullshit houseshow finish. The Wrestlemania match I thought was a missed opportunity to do something special on the biggest stage of all. The Judgment Day bout showed some pretty glaring weaknesses in terms of Rey being an all-round worker, namely that he can't really brawl. The famous Smackdown bout was a slow burner at first and I thought it was overrated for much of the beginning, but it got hotter and hotter and by the end was the best match from the feud. The GAB match was the best of their PPV efforts with the Dominic stuff not detracting majorly from what was a pretty good match, but the SummerSlam match was the pits. I hate ladder matches to begin with (it's a wrestling match, wtf is a ladder doing there?), but the angle the match revolved around was an absolute low point in the modern cinematic storytelling style and the big ladder spots were either botched or shit. By the time I got to the Cage match all I wanted was for the feud to end. I don't want to drag up the 619 discussion again, but I hated the way Eddy bumped for that spot. I was kind of burned out on Mysterio by the time I got to the MNM tags, but I could appreciate the excitement of the title switch even if Batista looked like a stiff.

 

I think I'll take a small break before I get to 2006, because I never got the sense in 2005 that Rey was the one in control of his bouts or the driving force behind whether they were good or not and that's one of my barometers of whether I think someone is a great worker or not. I don't want to develop a prejudice that he's overrated simply because the Guerrero feud was underwhelming.

[ohtani's jacket]

Rey vs Mark Henry, Smackdown 20th Jan 2006

Rey vs Mark Henry, Smackdown 27th Jan 2006

Rey vs Randy Orton, Smackdown 7th April 2006

Rey vs JBL, Judgment Day 2006

Rey vs JBL, 26th May 2006

Rey vs Kurt Angle, Smackdown 2nd June 2006

Rey vs Sabu, One Night Stand 2006

 

So, I made my way through Rey's 2006. The Henry matches were pretty good. I thought Rey's selling was great and Henry did an excellent job working from on top, but there were a lot of cookie cutter big man/little man spots that bugged me. I really like Orton as a Rey Mysterio opponent. He's such a prick towards Rey. A lot of guys are a prick towards Rey, but Orton seemed to take real delight in it. If he wasn't such a hammy actor, I'd rather that April match as one of Mysterio's best in the WWE. JBL also brought tremendous intensity to his feud with Mysterio. I don't think they delivered a classic, but the dynamic was great. Not sure if it was a great booking decision at the time, but for my own purposes they were matches I enjoyed. The Angle matches from '06 were fine. Angle pops up way too quickly on offensive switches, but aside from that I love his intensity and relentless offence. He's Scott Steiner with an Olympic medal, but I don't give a shit. There are times when he just kills Rey on offence. He's a machine like Keith Haward. The Sabu match was the worst thing I've seen in ages. I ought to have prefaced that by saying I haven't watched much wrestling lately, but it was absolutely terrible. The Chavo falls count anywhere match wasn't great either, but at least they filmed it in a novel way. I enjoyed the Finlay matches, though not as much as the JBL/Orton dynamic. For some reason, the most famous Finlay match isn't online, which is a shame as I always considered that a top five Rey-in-the-WWE bout.

 

Anyway, a pretty good year for Rey. I like him a lot as a worker, though he's a bit samey in terms of how he's booked. I wonder if he had more small guy vs. small guy bouts like the Noble one that I'm overlooking. I don't really buy him as a high volume great match guy (he has the same number of great matches as anyone else, imo), but he's a consistently good television worker. The best ever? I dunno. I like Tully's studio work better and Steve Grey is probably my pick but then again he was on TV as many times per year as Mysterio was in a single month, so there's an over-exposure issue for sure. Rey's good, though. Don't mean to ruffle any feathers.

[Jimmy Redman]

For Rey vs small guy matches, if you combine his cruiserweight division run with the odd match since then there's a decent list of them, more than you'd think for his WWE run. You've already covered his cruiser years though, and I can't think of a significant example off the top of my head that I haven't already listed at some point.

 

My feathers, for one, aren't ruffled. Between this and Cena I've enjoyed your take on some of my favourite guys, even when I disagree with a lot of it. Different perspectives are interesting.

 

On Finlay, I was actually a little underwhelmed with all of their 2006 matches, and I think the one from SD November 2007 is easily their best match together.

[ohtani's jacket]

Rey vs Finlay, 9th Nov 2007

 

I ended up watching the entire Finlay feud. It was a bit more story driven than I would have liked with the PPV matches in particular doing more to advance the storyline than deliver a great match. I found it odd that the TV bouts had more substance than their PPV work. It was almost as though they were the wrong way around. The match Jimmy listed is good -- from memory, their second best behind their 3/06 bout -- but I'm leaning towards Finlay not being that good a match-up for Rey, which kind of disappoints me. Maybe it's because of my expectations. One thing I've been impressed with as Rey's WWE work continues to unfold is his striking. He really developed a strong kick-punch game over time. The return match against Chavo at SummerSlam was their usual by-the-numbers bout, but I was surprised by how much I enjoyed the MVP stuff. It was sloppy at times and MVP was a little rough around the edges, but I liked the attitude he brought and it as refreshing to see Rey matched up against a different guy.

[ohtani's jacket]

Rey & Shawn vs Miz & Morrison, Raw 17th Nov 2008

Rey vs Punk, Armageddon 2008

 

 

Didn't rate that Punk match at all and actually thought Punk was pretty bad in it. Watched a so-so Evan Bourne match and bit the bullet on Rey vs. Edge, but the Michaels tag ended up being the best of the lot. Fair to say, 2008 was the worst year of Rey's run so far.

[ohtani's jacket]

Raw Elimination Chamber, No Way Out 2009

Rey vs Chris Jericho feud: Judgment Day, Extreme Rules, The Bash (Mask vs Title), SD 10th July 2009

Rey vs Dolph Ziggler, Summerslam 2009

Rey vs John Morrison, Smackdown 4th Sept 2009

 

 

I was impressed with the Jericho matches. Jericho is one of my least favourite guys around but they worked great together and all of their matches were good. There's so much emphasis in modern WWE on clever spots and a continuous stream of memorable "moments," which is made even more exasperating by the lengths the production crew go to film it from ever intrusive angles, but I thought their work together was about as organic as the modern style allows while still playing to the camera. I also enjoyed the Morrison and Ziggler bouts; workers I would never watch off my own back. The Elimination Chamber was all right -- a bit of a stuntman performance, a few novel spots like you'd expect, but not really as interesting as his singles match work, plus Edge's bug-eyed selling was off putting. Still, this was the first year where I thought all of his recommended matches were good. I don't know that they rank among his career best, but from this sample base, 2009 may have been his best year to date.

[ohtani's jacket]

Rey vs Shawn Michaels, Smackdown 29th Jan 2010

Rey vs CM Punk feud: SD 12th Feb, WM26, Extreme Rules, Over the Limit

Rey vs Tyson Kidd, Superstars 25th March 2010

Rey vs Jack Swagger feud: SD 11th June, Money in the Bank, SD 23rd July (2/3 Falls), SD 30th July (Falls Count Anywhere)

Rey vs Alberto Del Rio, Smackdown 8th Oct 2010

 

Rey was still putting in some good performances in 2010, but I thought the quality of his matches was down on 2009. The Michaels match was okay, but Shawn's selling kind of sucked. I also watched the Undertaker match from the Royal Rumble but it fairly mundane. I think that was a match-up issue more than anything else. Still, Rey vs. WWE legends is another thing I can cross off the list of things I'm interested in. Rey vs. Kidd was the kind of Rey match I like to watch, but Kidd's execution was sloppy and there were too many people at ringside. The Del Rio stuff was okay, but he's a mechanical worker without much soul. I liked the Punk feud, but it wasn't a patch on the stuff with Jericho the previous year. Punk wore his influences on his sleeve, but he did it with conviction and I could appreciate that. I didn't much care for his over acting on the hair match payoff, but that's a standard American interpretation of a hair loss I guess. Their Wrestlemania match was kind of drab, but the rest were solid enough, though the delay during the Over the Limit bout hurt it a bit. Swagger was an awkward match-up for Rey because of the size difference (had no idea Swagger was so long limbed), but their feud was pretty good. Unfortunately, the final image I had of it was a terrible falls count anywhere bout (hate that gimmick) with Kane showing up to chokeslam Rey into the river. Was it me or did he appear at the end of each of their fights?

[Chess Knight]

Seen:

 

Rey/JBL 5/13/04

Rey/Noble 11/2/07

Rey/Knox 2/18/10

Rey/Gallows 3/9/10

Rey/Taker 5/28/10

Rey/McIntyre 8/6/10

 

those? And really any match he had w/ Tajiri, but 9/25/03, No Mercy 03, and 1/1/04 are the ! ones.

[SomethingSavage]

 

Rey vs Shawn Michaels, Smackdown 29th Jan 2010

Rey vs CM Punk feud: SD 12th Feb, WM26, Extreme Rules, Over the Limit

Rey vs Tyson Kidd, Superstars 25th March 2010

Rey vs Jack Swagger feud: SD 11th June, Money in the Bank, SD 23rd July (2/3 Falls), SD 30th July (Falls Count Anywhere)

Rey vs Alberto Del Rio, Smackdown 8th Oct 2010

 

Rey was still putting in some good performances in 2010, but I thought the quality of his matches was down on 2009. The Michaels match was okay, but Shawn's selling kind of sucked. I also watched the Undertaker match from the Royal Rumble but it fairly mundane. I think that was a match-up issue more than anything else. Still, Rey vs. WWE legends is another thing I can cross off the list of things I'm interested in. Rey vs. Kidd was the kind of Rey match I like to watch, but Kidd's execution was sloppy and there were too many people at ringside. The Del Rio stuff was okay, but he's a mechanical worker without much soul. I liked the Punk feud, but it wasn't a patch on the stuff with Jericho the previous year. Punk wore his influences on his sleeve, but he did it with conviction and I could appreciate that. I didn't much care for his over acting on the hair match payoff, but that's a standard American interpretation of a hair loss I guess. Their Wrestlemania match was kind of drab, but the rest were solid enough, though the delay during the Over the Limit bout hurt it a bit. Swagger was an awkward match-up for Rey because of the size difference (had no idea Swagger was so long limbed), but their feud was pretty good. Unfortunately, the final image I had of it was a terrible falls count anywhere bout (hate that gimmick) with Kane showing up to chokeslam Rey into the river. Was it me or did he appear at the end of each of their fights?

 

 

I recently rewatched a lot of Rey from this time period, particularly 2010-11, and I'd echo a lot of the same statements. I don't think any of it was on par with his 2009, which was tremendous - featuring standout matches with everyone from Morrison & Ziggler to Jericho, Finlay, and even Mike Knox. Great stuff on the B (or C) level shows, and Rey was pumping out terrific TV matches on a weekly basis.

 

I don't Rey's work really took a noticeable nosedive until sometime around 2012. There was a dip in quality before that to be sure, but I don't think it's anything outrageous.

 

That being said, I didn't care AT ALL for the HBK match. Relied way too much on what was going on with Taker, and the whole affair just felt like an afterthought before the opening bell even rang.

 

The Tyson Kidd match is something I REALLY dug at the time, and I honestly think it still holds up well enough. I can see your point about their being too much going on at ringside, but I liked it. Never distracted my attention away from the two main components. Could've done with Smith Jr. if I had to, but I thought Natalya played her part to the hilt. Would've liked to have seen more of this aggressive side of her at ringside with the Cesaro/Kidd team, in fact.

 

Swagger and Rey was an odd fit from the beginning, and I never really got into any of their stuff around that time. I thought the brief angle to bring in Buck as Swagger's dad was a HUGE gimmick upgrade for him at the time, and it's a shame that it all fell apart before they really did enough with it. Golden as the "armchair coach dad in the stands" could have been... well, golden.

 

But yeah. Their Falls Count Anywhere Match (which, I guess, was the blowoff?) sucked super hard. Too much cutesy stuff on the outside, with all the spots feeling overly choreographed and completely sanitized. I did pop for Swagger trying to cross the street, nearly getting run over, and shouting at a driver - "Hey! I'M WALKIN' HERE!"

 

So there's that.

[Tim Cooke]

Rey's last strong WWE match was right after Money in the Bank 2011 on RAW when he wrestled Cena.

 

He's been good in AAA but still waiting for that blow away match, which I'm pretty sure he still has left in him.

[Jimmy Redman]

I love that mid-2011 period actually. In hindsight that was his last hurrah as a great worker for me. I think it started at the June PPV vs Punk, or maybe the week before, and ended when he got injured and written off after Summerslam...anyway this period of 10 weeks or so he was on Raw having the best match of the night every week, just doing the business. Highlights include the Punk match, the Cena match, and that ridiculously fun tag match with Alex Riley. I also love the two three-ways he had on Raw in this time as well, although I know that's not a popular match type for many of you.

[Grimmas]

Taker-Rey at RR2010 is one of my favourite big-little men matches of all-time.

[SomethingSavage]

I love that mid-2011 period actually. In hindsight that was his last hurrah as a great worker for me. I think it started at the June PPV vs Punk, or maybe the week before, and ended when he got injured and written off after Summerslam...anyway this period of 10 weeks or so he was on Raw having the best match of the night every week, just doing the business. Highlights include the Punk match, the Cena match, and that ridiculously fun tag match with Alex Riley. I also love the two three-ways he had on Raw in this time as well, although I know that's not a popular match type for many of you.

Agreed. That whole summer was a fun time to be a fan for obvious reasons, but yeah. Rey was having these exceptional little matches on the Raw side of things, following that long stint of strong stuff on Smackdown.

 

Hell, Rey even got a shockingly enjoyable match out of the Miz in that vacant WWE Title situation. Aside from the series with Morrison - which weren't great by any means - I can't recall another time where I bought Miz's offense. He tries to work too big & too tough against guys like Cesaro, Ryback, Cena, etc. when it just doesn't fit for me. But against Rey, he was busting out neckbreakers, backbreakers, and powerbombs in spots where they looked legitimately believable. You'd buy that Miz would eat that shit up anytime he's in a situation to bully a smaller guy like Rey. And it worked.

 

And I'm with ya, Steven, on the Rumble match with Taker. I understand if people were expecting something... else?... from the encounter, I guess. But I watch that one about once a year (at least), and I never DON'T enjoy the hell out of it. Just a super fun chemistry & dynamic in play there, and it's worked into every little thing they do from bell to bell.

[El McKell]

Rey's last strong WWE match was right after Money in the Bank 2011 on RAW when he wrestled Cena.

He was in an awesome tornado tag w/Alex Riley vs The Miz and Jack Swagger around that time, not sure if was before or after the Cena match though.

[Bierschwale]

I'd say that Rey had a very good match and performance even just last year, in a SmackDown tag with Bryan/Sheamus against the Shield.

[Stiva]

I haven't watched it in a while but I remember the 2011 Elimination Chamber having another great Rey performance.

[GOTNW]

 

Rey's last strong WWE match was right after Money in the Bank 2011 on RAW when he wrestled Cena.

He was in an awesome tornado tag w/Alex Riley vs The Miz and Jack Swagger around that time, not sure if was before or after the Cena match though.

 

That match was inexplicably great. I really can't fathom how a match involving Alex Riley, The Miz and Jack Swagger managed to be that good. Rey really was the master of WWE TV style, and even if it is generally a style I don't care much for he deserves recognition for it. He also carried Cody Rhodes-the blandest and most mediocre worker you'll ever come across-to something worthwhile

[ohtani's jacket]

Rey vs Alberto Del Rio, Smackdown 7th Jan 2011 (2/3 Falls)

SD Elimination Chamber, Elimination Chamber 2011

Rey vs Cody Rhodes, Extreme Rules 2011 (Falls Count Anywhere)

Rey vs CM Punk, Capitol Punishment 2011

Rey & Riley vs Swagger & Miz, Raw 27th June 2011

Rey vs John Cena, Raw 25th July 2011

 

I thought Mysterio continued to work to a high personal standard in 2011 but the quality of his opponents took a nosedive.

 

The Alberto Del Rio bout was the best I saw them have and a pretty good TV bout up until the cheap finish, though I guess it gave us the age old image of the manager being beaten up in place of the heel. Elimination Chamber matches are gimmick stunt fests and a poor man's Wargames, so boo to that. The Rhodes "Phantom of the Opera" shit was more cheesy than a day time soap. Rhodes did his best to get it over and the match itself was tolerable for a falls count anywhere bout, though he did keep running away from Rey when Rey was setting up spots he wanted to do off the barricade and down the stairs. I thought Rhodes took the 619 really well, fwiw. The CM Punk match was a boring attempt at having a straight match wrestling match between the two and kind of highlighted how spot reliant the modern WWE style is in that they can't really build a traditional match in such a replay heavy era. The tag was completely unremarkable and I can only imagine it's memorable because the Miz and that Riley guy have few other memorable bouts. I really didn't see how Rey carried the bout in any way. He contributed an equal share to the other workers and oftentimes wasn't even in the ring.

 

The Cena match was good. Very good actually. I can't state how much better JR is on commentary than the current crew. Even when he has to say stock phrases like "the WWE Universe" it's a thousand times more tolerable than Michael Cole. Lawler is a million times better with Ross than he is with Cole and JBL and together they make everything so much more tolerable. Really good TV match that was super competitive without the need to go epic. Cena looked really good in this and the nearfalls, finishers and kick outs were all logical, well build and far more memorable than the spamming in other bouts.

 

I'll probably watch a few more bouts here and there, but I'll close by saying that I can understand why people think Mysterio is a great worker. He's extremely consistent and almost always delivers a good performance in spite of injuries, booking and the general repetitiveness of his character and wrestling style. Like most wrestlers, I think he's only had a handful of truly great matches, but he's had very few lows and that was something that impressed me over the 10 years I watched. If I were going to watch any of this stuff again, my preference would be for the Smackdown Six era, 2009 and 2006 in that order. His best opponent in terms of peak matches was Eddie, but his best feud was with Jericho. I think top 10 is too high, but if I were voting I would definitely consider him for the top 30.

[WingedEagle]

 

He's extremely consistent and almost always delivers a good performance in spite of injuries, booking and the general repetitiveness of his character and wrestling style. Like most wrestlers, I think he's only had a handful of truly great matches, but he's had very few lows and that was something that impressed me over the 10 years I watched.

 

This is why it will be hard for me to rank him too highly. I want to be able to say that the guys at the top of my list had some absolute classics.

[Timbo Slice]

He might have the best match ever wrestled on North American soil under his belt, so I'd say that qualifies.

[Tim Cooke]

Yea, as Tim said, Havoc '97 is a greatest of all time candidate. The 3/16/95 AAA trios is certainly a best AAA match ever contender. Vs Kidman on Nitro in March '99 is a sub 10 minute greatest of all time candidate. I think the 6/23/05 SD match vs Eddy is a WWE best match ever candidate.

[Grimmas]

I think the Psicosis-Rey matches are the best touring get new stars over matches in history.

[WingedEagle]

I prefer the Psicosis matches in ECW and BATB to Eddy at Havoc. The Eddy Smackdown match also wouldn't rank as my WWE MOTY let alone all time which may explain why my boat here is a lonely one. Bottom line nothing he's done is making my desert island boxed set, much less single disc comp.