Grimmas Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Discuss here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 So underrated, I love the Sarge. Tremendous bumper, tremendous brawler. Classics with Steamboat/Youngblood, all out wars with Backlund, Sheik, Patterson. He had some fun stuff with Hogan in 91 that doesn't get much love. He's still entertaining in the 2000's bumping around like a lunatic for guys half his age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining Wiz Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Epitome of solid but not spectacular. Could get brought up to a very good match with the right guy, and was usually in decent matches, but I always felt the gimmick brought the heat rather than what was going on in the ring....this probably a bigger deal to me since I'm not American so he didn't have my natural rooting interest. Not anywhere near my ballot on first glance....will see if some reconsideration is worthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Man, Sarge is a hard one. Clearly a great wrestler with several awesome performances but I don't know. A guy I can see going on easily or falling off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 What hurts Sarge is that he has these tremendous highs, but not a ton of the complimentary stuff you like to see to add meat to a resume. Having said that, no way I can leave guy with Sheik matches, Final Conflict and Starrcage off my ballot. If you are in four of my top 25 US matches of the 80s, you are getting on the list somewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Epitome of solid but not spectacular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Certainty for my top 100, but probably in 80-100 region. - Tremendous heat, especially as a heel in 1981 WWF, and again in 1991 WWF - Great "marquee matches" - All-time great bumper - Magnificent chin, second only to Inoki's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 There is a limited selection of material from his AWA run as Super Destroyer II available. There are a couple of more moments that have surfaced since this was put together several years ago, mostly interview segments: SD II vs. Larry Hennig (arm wrestling challenge from AWA TV, circa 1978. SD II & SD III (Neil Guay) vs. Verne Gagne & Mad Dog Vachon (AWA Tag Champs)--short bit of film from 12/79 Chicago. SD II vs. Dino Bravo (AWA TV 1979). Bravo was new to the area and pulls off a major upset. SD II fires manager Lord Al Hayes on TV and introduces Bobby Heenan as his new manager (a few weeks after his Bravo match from TV) SD II vs. Giant Baba (PWF title, Minneapolis 6/22/80). SD II vs. Greg Gagne (Winnipeg 1980) SD II vs. Nick Bockwinkel (Minneapolis 1980). SD II/ Greg Gagne vs. Nick Bockwinkel & Bobby Heenan (Winnipeg 1980, Weasel Suit Challenge) Add to that some very, very early footage available of Slaughter from IWE Japan: Higo Hamaguchi vs. Bobby Slaughter (1/6/75)--highlights MIghty Inoue vs. Bobby Slaughter (1/7/75)--highlights Great Kusatsu vs. Bobby Slaughter (2/2/75)--highlights The clips aren't long but it's the earliest Slaughter footage available as far as I can tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 What hurts Sarge is that he has these tremendous highs, but not a ton of the complimentary stuff you like to see to add meat to a resume. Having said that, no way I can leave guy with Sheik matches, Final Conflict and Starrcage off my ballot. If you are in four of my top 25 US matches of the 80s, you are getting on the list somewhere What do you think of his 90-91 WWF run? The performance at Survivor Series 90, the Desert Storm matches, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 I'm fighting the urge to joke about none of his nostalgia matches on WWE TV for the last 15 years being anything worthwhile, so this is my way of passive aggressively adding that to this thread. Surely if a guy comes back once or twice a year for a TV match for a decade and a half, at least *one* of them should be great, right? Slaughter didn't seem to know when to quit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Did he get anything more than 2-3 minutes long? He certainly was good at inspiring crowd support in those matches and getting them behind him as they're usually based on him trying to break out of a hold. (I may or may not be serious: I don't even know anymore). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Slaughter should be going on my ballot. One of the all time great big man bumpers. He has the Steamboat/Youngblood matches, Iron Sheik , Backlund, Morales, Hogan, Hansen, Starcage, Wahoo, and others. He'll be in the 65-100 range . Plenty of memorable angles too. Got crowd reactions as a heel and as a face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 I need to rewatch Slaughter's performances in the aforementioned great matches because honestly, he's never stuck in my mind as a great wrestler. I see the elements others describe and I like the acclaimed matches. It's just never all added up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 I've been revisiting the Sarge as promised, and his '81 cage match with Backlund from Philly featured strong performances from both guys, with some of the best escape-the-cage battles I've seen. Then I watched the pair of Patterson matches from the same year, which showcased his ability to flip seamlessly from brawling to bumping around. I've read mixed reviews on the alley fight, but Sarge brought great drama to it by carving one of history's great blade jobs and then fighting through the blood on wobbly legs. I have to disagree with Shining Wiz's statement that the gimmick brought the heat. Sarge was really good as a chickenshit with enough fighting credibility to be dangerous. If it was all the gimmick, he wouldn't have been so good at keeping and building the heat throughout his big matches. He's trending up for me, with the Steamboat/Youngblood and Sheik stuff still to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 He's definitely gonna be on my ballot and much higher than I would have thought earlier. For as much credit Curt Hennig gets for his bumping, Slaughter destroys him by bumping in ways that are way more believable in context. As Dylan said, he's very much the type of guy with the highest of peaks, but that doesn't deter him from being quality even if he doesn't have as much in between as we want him to. Awesome at building feuds, awesome at putting guys over, tremendous brawler...I don't know where I'll have him, but somewhere in the 50-75 range seems very possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 What hurts Sarge is that he has these tremendous highs, but not a ton of the complimentary stuff you like to see to add meat to a resume. Watching through WWF in 1981, I have come to really disagree with this take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 I should elaborate, in week to week TV and on house shows, he's been fantastic in every aspect of performance as a heel in 1981. Lock for MVP for that year in WWF. The idea that he only has the big greatest hits matches is a misnomer, I think, his case is helped by really good stuff against Rick McGraw, Pat Patterson in the Philly matches (note, not the famous MSG one, which is GREAT), solid stuff against Pedro, Backlund cage match, great opponent for Andre ... I am surely that if you went to watch Mid-Atlantic week by week in 82-3 you'd find similarly very good performances leading up to Final Conflict. I full expect to see Sarge be impressive in 83-4 back in WWF. His AWA run was at least a B+. I'd be interesred to see what he was like on the house show circuit back in WWF in 1990. Point is that based on 81 viewing, it seems to me that there's a lot more meat on the bones than it first appears. I'd encourage Dylan and others to maybe revise that view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 I have a soft spot for Sarge and I am more than willing to reconsider that position. I'll see what I can find from him from 81. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 I think that criticism about Sarge only holds up about he left the WWF in 1984. That's when he was at the peak of his stardom, making a lot of GI Joe money outside of wrestling and seemed to take a lot of nights off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 To be clear my position isn't so much that he took nights off, but rather that he doesn't have the rich body of second and third tier level work you ideally want out of an all time great performer. Again I may in fact be wrong there and would be happy to concede that I am. I just need to watch the footage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Dylan, while it's still up there, here's a whole bunch of Sarge from 81: You'll find the Patterson Philly matches on there, among other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danish Dynamite Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 Great Sarge link! Thanks Parv! He's gonna end up pretty high on my list 👍 ... I think you're way off on one point though: Sarge's chin beats Inoki's any day of the week 👊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parties Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 As of now he's on my list, but he would could fall off. Boot Camp and Desert Storm matches are great, as are Steamboat/Youngblood along with the Patterson and Backlund stuff. And for what it's worth, he has a lasting cultural legacy off the G.I. Joe stuff. He's an odd case in that he has so many great matches, but his look and aspects of his act strike me as second-rate. I didn't buy him as champ in '91. I get why they did it as they thought they were seizing on the moment, but he was past his prime and history has proven that it didn't get over. His mic work varied between fantastic and over-the-top cheesy. He also loses points with me for being perhaps the all-time worse panelist on The Legends of Wrestling, which is wildly unfair to assessing his career, but man, he was horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danish Dynamite Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 HAHAHA!!!! Yeah, Legends of Wrestling didn't help him... And I totally agree about the 91 run. If he hadn't gotten the title, but had destroyed Jim Duggan in a series of flag matches, leading into a brutal feud with Hogan (that Hogan would win, but the title would be nowhere in sight), that might have sat better with me. ... But damn it if I don't love his 81-84 years (all of it!) and too much of his "weaker" years in AWA and lots of matches from the 90-91 run. He's on the list and he stays there :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 As of now he's on my list, but he would could fall off. Boot Camp and Desert Storm matches are great, as are Steamboat/Youngblood along with the Patterson and Backlund stuff. And for what it's worth, he has a lasting cultural legacy off the G.I. Joe stuff. He's an odd case in that he has so many great matches, but his look and aspects of his act strike me as second-rate. I didn't buy him as champ in '91. I get why they did it as they thought they were seizing on the moment, but he was past his prime and history has proven that it didn't get over. His mic work varied between fantastic and over-the-top cheesy. He also loses points with me for being perhaps the all-time worse panelist on The Legends of Wrestling, which is wildly unfair to assessing his career, but man, he was horrible. Those negatives you mention are reasons people don't give him a fair shake. Mostly his gimmick doesn't scream out great wrestler. If people get past that they should at least consider him for their list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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