Jim Duggan

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[soup23]

Really good in Midsouth. One of my least favorite wrestlers ever afterwards. Not sniffing my top 100.

[KrisZ]

When working for Watts....Duggan was one of the best big match wrestlers in the business having classics against guys like Buzz Sawyer, One Man Gang, Kamala, Dr. Death, DiBiase, Gordy, Slater, Hercules et al and that's not counting his work in tag matches against the likes of MX and the Freebirds.

 

Now Duggan in the WWF had his ups and downs and definitely was not the same guy there as he was in Mid-South but damn Duggan in his prime was pretty damn awesome.

[Matt D]

There are late Duggan matches I like a lot, vs Yoko in Europe in 93, the Vader match, but I don't think that's enough to overlook so much of the back end of his career. It's possible; I won't say it's not, but it's doubtful.

[Goodear]

Hacksaw has his faults as a worker and they are legion. On the other hand, the guy has the personal charisma of 10 charismatic men and as Enzo Amore might say you can't teach that.

[Timbo Slice]

Need to see his Mid-South run to give him any type of shot because I was never a fan of what he did in the WWF or WCW.

[Karl]

If someone were to say to me 10-15 years ago that I would be giving serious consideration to putting Duggan in my all time top 100 wrestlers list, I would have laughed at them for some time, but then, I had not seen Duggans Mid South run at that point.

 

I find his matches from his time with Watts so utterly compelling, so very very entertaining. Now when I think of him, I dont think of his WWF or WCW runs, but only of Mid South. To be able to erase those later years from my mind is surely the greatest compliment I can give to how great that Mid South run was.

 

It is certainly possible he will make my list. It will be low down, but its possible. .

[Jingus]

I think Duggan's WWF run is a tad bit underrated. Heck, he and Andre were doing a really fun forgotten run together around '89 or so, which was better than the Giant's average work at that time. Heck, he was even entertaining when he came back years later and tagged with Super Crazy.

 

But it's awfully hard to overlook the fact that Hacksaw was consistently one of the absolute worst wrestlers in the entire company during his tenure in WCW. He was fucking terrible in every way possible; embarrassingly light offense, bad transitions, clumsy spots that were frequently blown, bad cardio which had him sucking wind like a marathon runner. Worst of all, he'd often go out of his way to be a selfish prick in the ring and make his younger opponents look like shit, barely selling anything and constantly cutting them off so that nobody could keep any heat's momentum going on him. He was actively detrimental to the roster, so of course they kept him employed for over six years straight.

[El-P]

After hearing again and again how good Duggan was in Mid-south, I was absolutely underwhelmed by his work there as I went through TV seasons. Yes, he was better than he was in WWF and WCW, but that wasn't too hard, but he really wasn't anything special. By the end of his run, he was just as goofy as he was in WWF. The only feud I really thought was actually great down there was against Buzz Sawyer. He never caught that fire again until he fought Vader in WCW.

[PeteF3]

I do think Mid-South Duggan is a guy who's a much better arena worker than TV worker.

[shoe]

I do think Mid-South Duggan is a guy who's a much better arena worker than TV worker.

 

Bingo. I think from 83-85 he was the best brawler in the U.S. That won't translate on the tv. He's been a stud on NWA classics.com where it is arena footage.

[El-P]

I've seen Mid-South arena footage too. Nothing special.

[Grimmas]

I've seen Mid-South arena footage too. Nothing special.

Congratulations you may be the only one to think that, you win the prize.

[El-P]

 

I've seen Mid-South arena footage too. Nothing special.

Congratulations you may be the only one to think that, you win the prize.

 

 

WTF ? Really ? As I said, I've been through shitloads of Mid-souh years ago, TV seasons and a bunch or arena stuff. That's what Duggan's work seemed to me, nothing special. That's all there's to it, really. Don't make everything a personal or ego issue. It's really not. I couldn't care less. I'm having "boring choice" Jumbo Tsuruta as my #1 wrestler ever, and other oh-so-original choices like Hansen, Terry Funk and Kawada in my top 5. I really couldn't care less if I'm in a large group or by myself. Especially at this point of my life, I mean...

[KB8]

I'm on a totally different side of the fence on Duggan (though I'll probably have Hansen, Funk and Kawada top 5 as well...). Thought he was awesome going through the Mid-South set the first time, almost in a "holy shit, THIS is the 'HOOOOO, TOUGH GUY' Jim Duggan from the WWF?" state of shock, and going through it again over the last few years I maybe like him even more. Love him as walking tall babyface, brawling like a demon and making his lunatic caveman comebacks. His timing on those comebacks has always struck me as being great as well. I mean, I might not even have him top 75, but I think he'll make my list somewhere.

[Grimmas]

 

 

I've seen Mid-South arena footage too. Nothing special.

Congratulations you may be the only one to think that, you win the prize.

 

 

WTF ? Really ? As I said, I've been through shitloads of Mid-souh years ago, TV seasons and a bunch or arena stuff. That's what Duggan's work seemed to me, nothing special. That's all there's to it, really. Don't make everything a personal or ego issue. It's really not. I couldn't care less. I'm having "boring choice" Jumbo Tsuruta as my #1 wrestler ever, and other oh-so-original choices like Hansen, Terry Funk and Kawada in my top 5. I really couldn't care less if I'm in a large group or by myself. Especially at this point of my life, I mean...

 

Then why make such a shitty post? You said your piece originally, saying he's nothing special. Yet you go ahead just to repeat the same thing. Either actually add something to the discussion or don't. What is the point of just adding these dismissive posts if you aren't doing it to troll or get attention?

[El-P]

I talked about going through TV seasons. Forgot to mention arena stuff. Someone pointed out the arena stuff was better. I simply replied that actually I had seen a bunch of arena footage too, and that it was nothing special to me either. Nothing to get worked up like that, really. It's not dismissive. If I hadn't seen the arena footage I'd have replied "Ok, maybe I needed to see that stuff then". I guess you have to be all "Johnny watches WWE" mood these days…

[Grimmas]

I talked about going through TV seasons. Forgot to mention arena stuff. Someone pointed out the arena stuff was better. I simply replied that actually I had seen a bunch of arena footage too, and that it was nothing special to me either. Nothing to get worked up like that, really. It's not dismissive. If I hadn't seen the arena footage I'd have replied "Ok, maybe I needed to see that stuff then". I guess you have to be all "Johnny watches WWE" mood these days…

Yep, that is what I mean you have to be super positive all the time.

 

Typing out, "it's nothing special" means absolutely nothing. Was he good or bad and why? If you don't think he's very good, explain why. If you think he's just ok, but not deserving of his list, explain why.

 

I could go through every thread and say this guy is special, this guys is nothing special. What would that accomplish?

 

Give us some insight, otherwise you just come off as dismissive. You can like and dislike anything you want I don't care. Just stating it without explanation just seems utterly pointless and attention grabbing.

[El-P]

I should just have said "watched TV seasons and arena footage" in my first post, since that one didn't get any bad reaction. I was just giving my two cents.

 

(and you're the one making the only snarky, attention grabbing post of this thread BTW, with your patronizing "Congratulations you may be the only one to think that, you win the prize.". If that's not trolling, I don't know what it is.)

[DR Ackermann]

I'll say that Dugan looked better in midsouth than later in his career, but he still doesn't come close to making my list. Good is good, bad is bad and neither one is GREAT.

[jdw]

 

I talked about going through TV seasons. Forgot to mention arena stuff. Someone pointed out the arena stuff was better. I simply replied that actually I had seen a bunch of arena footage too, and that it was nothing special to me either. Nothing to get worked up like that, really. It's not dismissive. If I hadn't seen the arena footage I'd have replied "Ok, maybe I needed to see that stuff then". I guess you have to be all "Johnny watches WWE" mood these days…

Yep, that is what I mean you have to be super positive all the time.

 

Typing out, "it's nothing special" means absolutely nothing. Was he good or bad and why? If you don't think he's very good, explain why. If you think he's just ok, but not deserving of his list, explain why.

 

I could go through every thread and say this guy is special, this guys is nothing special. What would that accomplish?

 

Give us some insight, otherwise you just come off as dismissive. You can like and dislike anything you want I don't care. Just stating it without explanation just seems utterly pointless and attention grabbing.

 

 

Jerome is putting quick takes in a number of wrestler's threads to capture what he currently feels about them.

 

I could get knocking him for not adding anything if he was a poster who has a track record of writing pithy, short comments. But Jerome has written at length about a slew of these wrestlers in other threads, be they match threads, be they wrestler discussions (like that dozen or so Flair threads we've had over the years), or in themed bases threads such as the Death of WCW and countless others.

 

He's got 6657 posts under his belt. He kind of warrants the right to put over those he liked, who he thought we okay, and who didn't do much for him. There wasn't a single post in the Candy Okutsu thread in the year since it opened, and even that starter post drew flies. Jerome searched it out, and posted a quick comment on here.

 

Lots of sacred cows have had comments on them like Jerome did on Duggan. People take shots at Jumbo, Flair, Bret, etc. Lots of the comments are pithy. Some are pretty blistering. Duggan isn't a sacred cow, and any number of us might not have lost our shit over his Mid South work (and other Mid South work) as others have. There isn't anything wrong with what or how he tossed out, other than probably some folks like Duggan and others don't.

[KB8]

I had Duggan at 89 in 2016 and he'd probably be about there again, if not a few spots higher. If you don't care for the peak Mid-South/Houston run (~'83-'86) then he has no shot, but I flat out love that run and he's sort of a perfect example of a wrestler who made it onto my ballot because of their peak. Some of the WWF stuff might be okay, but honestly I don't care about watching any of it, so even if it's not actively detrimental to his case then it's certainly not something I'd use to bolster it. Haven't had the urge to run through WCW Duggan, though the Vader match is great and there's one squash from a Saturday Night that should be watched just for Schiavone making a comment about Duggan being intelligent and Heenan spending the rest of the match laughing uncontrollably (to the point where it sets off Schiavone as well). But the Mid-South and Houston stuff is top banana. Walking tall caveman Duggan is a blast and one of the best straight up brawlers of the era, with a pretty damn strong resume of awesome matches. The DiBiase feud is all-time level and the Sawyer feud is incredible in its own right. Some of the Gordy matches from '86 kind of blend together at this point, but there's at least one that I thought was great. And I can't think of too many people who had better babyface timing than Hacksaw. 

 

JIM DUGGAN YOU SHOULD WATCH:

v Ted DiBiase (Houston, 8/26/83)

w/Rock n Roll Express v Midnight Express & Ernie Ladd (Houston, 6/8/84)

v Ted DiBiase (Houston, 3/22/85)

v Buzz Sawyer (Mid-South, 11/11/85)

v Terry Gordy (Mid-South, 8/3/86)

[elliott]

I agree with all of this. Dibiase might have been the Wrestler of the Mid-South Set based on stats & # of matches.  But Duggan was the revelation. I had NO idea Duggan was one of the ultimate babyface bruisers in wrestling history until watching him in Mid-South. Sort of everything I wanted from Terry Gordy I got out of Mid-South Jim Duggan. 

What is that Saturday Night match you referenced with Tony & Bobby? I gotta watch that. 

[KB8]

 

 

I had to watch it again and was not disappointed. 

[elliott]

OMFG that is amazing. Hahahahahahahaha. Thank you! That probably moves Heenan 3-5 spots up my list. He's like #6 now.