Loss Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Will is joined by Pete and Johnny (Titans of Wrestling), Dylan Hales (Wrestling Culture) and documentary maker Johnny P to discuss Wrestle Kingdom 9! We run down all the matches, give a little bit of background on the wrestlers and mispronounce a bunch of names! This is NOT a show for hardcore New Japan fans but a great listen for people who want to know what all the fuss is about.http://placetobenation.com/wrestle-kingdom-9-reaction-show/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Holy shit I had no idea this existed! This is the most exciting podcast news I have heard since I found out the Pro-Wrestling Super Show is doing a Wrestler Snapshot on Mascarita Dorada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Hell yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Hell yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Johnny hoping UWF rules meant the return of Bill Watts is tremendous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Good show. Hope there aren't too many jump to conclusion mats being bought in anticipation of certain opinions on the show, but even those who were totally big fans of the show weren't throwing out hyperbole in describing what they liked. Good stuff all around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Very excited! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 I'm reserving judgement on the whole attendance deal until we get numbers from a reliable source (if that's happened already I missed it). If the rumors are accurate it does seem like Meltz deserves the mockery though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 The 36K number was New Japan's official attendance figure. Since Bushiroad took over, they've apparently been honest about such statistics. If anything, it would be inflated upwards, not downwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 The word now is that 36k was a sellout for the setup they had in the building. I don't see that there's any reason to believe that Dave got worked on the advance ticket sales. I do think you can argue that his enthusiasm for the product caused him to make more positive extrapolations from the available information than he otherwise would have, and maybe in that sense the NJPW front office managed to work him by withholding the one crucial detail about the max capacity of their setup. That said, to play devil's advocate, is it really so hard to imagine the same thing happening with a non-guaranteed-sellout Wrestlemania? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 The word now is that 36k was a sellout for the setup they had in the building. I don't see that there's any reason to believe that Dave got worked on the advance ticket sales. I do think you can argue that his enthusiasm for the product caused him to make more positive extrapolations from the available information than he otherwise would have, and maybe in that sense the NJPW front office managed to work him by withholding the one crucial detail about the max capacity of their setup. That said, to play devil's advocate, is it really so hard to imagine the same thing happening with a non-guaranteed-sellout Wrestlemania? Â Of course WWE could spin things the same way but there does seem to be a lot of berating of WWE inflation compared to what happened here. I think Dylan in this reaction show points out things perfectly. Either the actual amount of ticket sells was complete bullshit ahead of time or someone should have been wise to the fact that the setup was for only 36k so it was impossible for the show to do way better than last year which is what some of the biggest voices of New Japan were claiming ahead of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 I do think we can possibly lay some of the blame for the confusion at the feet of Dave's lack of ability to understand how people are going to interpret what he says. Remember "my source says with 100% certainty that CM Punk will be at Raw"? It's possible that when he talks about the incredible advance they're doing compared to last year and neglects to mention that the capacity is only 1000 more than they did last year he doesn't even see how the vast majority of people are going to interpret that. I guess you can argue that in both cases Dave is covering his ass, but given the amount of mildly autistic traits the guy exhibits in general I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume this is just another instance of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 This is what Dave wrote a few weeks ago:  As of about a week ago, the advance for the Tokyo Dome was 50% ahead of the same period last year, and the most tickets sold for a New Japan Dome show this far in advance since the All Japan vs. New Japan Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kensuke Sasaki feud, and that was one super hot program at the time, far bigger than what they’ve got now. Given they sold 35,000 tickets last year, it looks like they will be coming close to the elusive sellout. The last pro wrestling sellout of the Tokyo Dome was the 2005 NOAH show with the Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kawada and Kenta Kobashi vs. Sasaki double main event. The last New Japan sellout was 2002 with the Yuji Nagata vs. Jun Akiyama main event. The last time a pure New Japan main event sold out the Dome was 1999 for Keiji Muto vs. Don Frye, and even that show had significant paper to sell the place out.  What Dave wrote clearly was written in a way where he believed that a sellout = 52,000 fans not 40,000. This isn't a case of wilful misinterpretation by Dave's readers, rather Dave being fed misleading information by his sources and him taking it at face value (which is sort of how he messed up with the Punk being at Raw story, believing the wrong people). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 I didn't mean to imply anyone was wilfully misinterpreting anything; more that they were reasonably interpreting statements by Dave that perhaps implied things he didn't mean to imply. That excerpt does seem pretty damning, though I do remember him saying somewhere that the building would be set up for less seats than in past years so I wouldn't go so far as to say he meant to imply 52,000. Â Even if we accept that Dave got worked on the attendance, though, it still doesn't necessarily follow that he got worked because he's a fan of the product (and I'm not saying that it's not true, just that it doesn't necessarily follow). For what it's worth Dave has often been cautiously critical of NJPW business decisions like NJPW World and their overeager attempts at expansion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Of course WWE could spin things the same way but there does seem to be a lot of berating of WWE inflation compared to what happened here. I think Dylan in this reaction show points out things perfectly. Either the actual amount of ticket sells was complete bullshit ahead of time or someone should have been wise to the fact that the setup was for only 36k so it was impossible for the show to do way better than last year which is what some of the biggest voices of New Japan were claiming ahead of time. Â Â Prior to the show, almost all of the arena seats were sold out (the section where the baseball diamond is) and most of the 2F Stand A tickets (which are the middle priced tickets in the stands.) The rest of the tickets were sold right up until the day and they probably figured that since the advance was good they'd sell more tickets in the stands. I don't believe they set it up for 36k. That's bullshit. A few years back Tokyo hosted a rugby match between New Zealand and Australia at the old National Olympic Stadium. The exact same situation happened -- the most expensive tickets sold out along with the most moderately priced ones -- and to save face the Japan Rugby Football Union papered the crowd by giving away a bunch of tickets to high school players. You just stick the kanji for "manin" (full house, no vacancy) next to the figure and you've got a sell out. I doubt they even got 36k paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Hey Chad, don't you hate when commercials run and run? Forget, Chad, I fucking do! My favorite commercial is the one dude that half-halfheartedly buries podcasts about older wrestling with Animotion's Obsession (badass song). That is too rich, but maybe that's joke. Does anybody the timing of how long the commercials take on these podcasts? I love Place to be Nation and it is a great distribution conduit for podcasts, but I don't think I can take it anymore. I am a positive guy so I'll add that something good came out of the commericlals: I will be heading to West Warwick to see my favorite wrestler of the past decade, AJ Styles and to see what all the hubbub is about Busick so I will check out Boneheads. I didn't watch Wrestle Kingdom, but listening to these guys talk about these guys is always very entertaining. I kept losing it on "Funky Weapon" when ever someone mentioned it. I have seen a Taguchi match where he is wearing the Funky Weapon tights and I never even blinked. Once I heard you guys say it out loud, I could not stop laughing at work. I hope to be caught up with New Japan from 2010-Now by the G-1 Climax this year so I can actually offer real feedback. Great show! I hope there are more throughout the year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jushin muta liger Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Is the show on the iTunes feed? I've subscribed to both feeds and I don't see it. Â I'm interested cause I saw the show and liked it but it felt too rushed. As for the attendance figure, this is same thing I've always had a problem with in terms of Dome Show attendances cause they would mostly be the number from New Japan. I wished Zach Arnold was still covering Japan since he was the guy with the most accurate numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Hey Chad, don't you hate when commercials run and run? Forget, Chad, I fucking do! My favorite commercial is the one dude that half-halfheartedly buries podcasts about older wrestling with Animotion's Obsession (badass song). That is too rich, but maybe that's joke. Does anybody the timing of how long the commercials take on these podcasts? I love Place to be Nation and it is a great distribution conduit for podcasts, but I don't think I can take it anymore. I am a positive guy so I'll add that something good came out of the commericlals: I will be heading to West Warwick to see my favorite wrestler of the past decade, AJ Styles and to see what all the hubbub is about Busick so I will check out Boneheads. Â I didn't watch Wrestle Kingdom, but listening to these guys talk about these guys is always very entertaining. I kept losing it on "Funky Weapon" when ever someone mentioned it. I have seen a Taguchi match where he is wearing the Funky Weapon tights and I never even blinked. Once I heard you guys say it out loud, I could not stop laughing at work. I hope to be caught up with New Japan from 2010-Now by the G-1 Climax this year so I can actually offer real feedback. Great show! I hope there are more throughout the year! I have been meaning for months to edit those commercials, for my show at least, to keep it relevant. Sports and a podcast making fun of all other podcasts are not cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Is the show on the iTunes feed? I've subscribed to both feeds and I don't see it. Â I'm interested cause I saw the show and liked it but it felt too rushed. As for the attendance figure, this is same thing I've always had a problem with in terms of Dome Show attendances cause they would mostly be the number from New Japan. I wished Zach Arnold was still covering Japan since he was the guy with the most accurate numbers. Â That's odd . Hopefully we'll have it fixed sooner than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 I really hate Johnny Sorrow's argument that someone is good if they make money. Â Is One Direction a great band? Is any movie that makes big box office necessarily better than a movie that doesn't? etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigelow34 Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 You should check out Boneheads! It is awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 I really hate Johnny Sorrow's argument that someone is good if they make money. Â Is One Direction a great band? Is any movie that makes big box office necessarily better than a movie that doesn't? etc... Â As someone who has an 8 year old daughter who listens to a lot of One Direction, they're actually pretty good. I agree with your point though, making money does not mean someone is good, it just means they made money. Michael Bay is one of most successful directors ever in terms of money, but he's a hack who hasn't made any movie that's better than time wasting good (The Rock). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 I really hate Johnny Sorrow's argument that someone is good if they make money. Â Is One Direction a great band? Is any movie that makes big box office necessarily better than a movie that doesn't? etc... Â One Direction and Fast & Furious are clearly better at certain aspects of the music & movie business than other, more critically acclaimed acts. Doesn't mean they're good or bad, but they are succeeding on a pretty important level. Without that, work that doesn't appeal far and wide won't have any platform because the business will dry up. You need a mix, and won't always find both in the same offering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Â I really hate Johnny Sorrow's argument that someone is good if they make money. Â Is One Direction a great band? Is any movie that makes big box office necessarily better than a movie that doesn't? etc... Â One Direction and Fast & Furious are clearly better at certain aspects of the music & movie business than other, more critically acclaimed acts. Doesn't mean they're good or bad, but they are succeeding on a pretty important level. Without that, work that doesn't appeal far and wide won't have any platform because the business will dry up. You need a mix, and won't always find both in the same offering. Â If someone who judges art (movies/films/music, etc..) makes a year end top 10 list, the amount of money the art project made is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Â Â I really hate Johnny Sorrow's argument that someone is good if they make money. Â Is One Direction a great band? Is any movie that makes big box office necessarily better than a movie that doesn't? etc... Â One Direction and Fast & Furious are clearly better at certain aspects of the music & movie business than other, more critically acclaimed acts. Doesn't mean they're good or bad, but they are succeeding on a pretty important level. Without that, work that doesn't appeal far and wide won't have any platform because the business will dry up. You need a mix, and won't always find both in the same offering. Â If someone who judges art (movies/films/music, etc..) makes a year end top 10 list, the amount of money the art project made is irrelevant. Â Â Last I'll say on this, because I've had this argument a bunch and really don't want to drag it out again. Â I agree with what you're saying, it's the basis by which I view art. I don't make any money off of the art I'm viewing, and I certainly don't gain any enjoyment from the art I am watching making any money. I enjoy art because it is well made art, the money side doesn't matter and unless you are a business man making money off of the art it shouldn't matter to anyone. I go more in depth in issue #3 of The Tag Rope, but I firmly believe that breaking an art down to money and statistics is detrimental to the art, the artists, and the fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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