What is the future of NXT?

[Dylan Waco]

This has come up recently on Twitter and in private conversations I've had with several people, but I think it's time to ask what exactly the future of NXT is. This weekend they ran two very successful house shows under the NXT heading in Ohio, filled almost exclusively with NXT talent. The shows sold out quickly and were critically acclaimed, as has been the NXT TV show, and of course the NXT Network specials.

 

We also know that WWE has been:

 

Bringing in veterans to NXT to add a bit of depth and different dynamic to the roster.

 

Aggressively pursuing new talent from the indies (Uhaa Nation, Samoa Joe, possibly Biff Busick, ROH talent according to Dave, which I have strong reason to believe is true).

 

Looking to develop NXT into it's own tour-able brand.

 

Increasingly focusing the shows around "known" international and indie commodities like Zayn, Owens, Balor and Itami.

 

Given all of this it's time to ask - is NXT even a developmental territory at this point? According to Meltzer in this weeks Observer a lot of the interest in potential new signees is based around whether or not they can headline (i.e. draw) on NXT branded house shows. Guys like Zayn and Neville have been in NXT forever as pushed talent, and in the case of Zayn it appears he will be around for a while longer even though absolutely no one thinks he needs to "develop" anything further before being called up. Along those same lines the top feud in NXT right now is Zayn v. Owens, a feud that is widely regarded as one of - if not the best - indie feud of all time, and a feud that is highly marketable as a part of the "WWE does the indies" traveling road show.

 

As has been mentioned in a lot of the Demott discussion, it's not like the homegrown guys have been successful at all, and I think it's hard to see a path for many of those guys going forward, particularly if the NXT as a traveling brand stories are true. Obviously the WWE has invested a ton in the training facility, and it's not like that work is going to stop, but if these plans come off it's worth thinking about what the role of NXT actually is. Put another way, can NXT be both a functional third brand, with the demands that come with that (need to draw, need to develop stars for it's own show independent of the needs of the main roster) and a developmental league who's primary goal (in theory) is to get guys ready for the main roster?

[Loss]

I've said this before, but I suspect that the underlying goal is for HHH to create a shadow promotion of wrestlers, announcers, referees, a crew and a production team that is loyal to him first and foremost. One day, we'll look up and Vince will still have his title but will be almost a non-factor in day-to-day operations, because nearly everyone in the company is an HHH guy as opposed to a Vince guy. It's actually a wise play on HHH's part, because if he sits around and waits for Vince to retire, he will never get there.

[(BP)]

HHH is making two sound moves here: he's insulating himself from another Bryan-like backlash in the future by having NXT be the "work rate" brand for the "vocal minority", and he's establishing a brand awareness so wrestler's transitions to the WWE roster won't be as awkward as Bo or Emma's.

[pol]

I'm interested in when we actually see a callup for one of the indie draws. As I said in the other thread, with NXT showing the beginnings of being a touring brand, and a significant motivating factor there probably being providing HHH with an opportunity to prove his worth as a promoter to investors skeptical of his ability to fill Vince's shoes, I think they probably see a lot of those guys as far more valuable in NXT than on the main roster.

 

Would Joe have been signed before these plans were in place? Was he even signed with the intention of having him on the main roster? Given what Meltzer has said about HHH and Vince sharing many of the same prescriptive notions of what makes aa star, could HHH's mentality with a guy like Zayn be "this guy could never draw big money, but I'll get behind him in NXT since he's a proven draw at that level"?

[shoe]

I'm all for them touring. The shows shouldn't be recorded for the network. NXT doesn't need to be more exposed. Though this will be a fine line to walk between making money and developing talent for the main roster. Also I think people are being a bit hard on HHH is doing a workrate promotion to please the hardcores. I think people forget he was a Flair guy over a Hogan guy. He always wanted to be respected like Flair as a champion. He wanted to do epic matches. His instincts just stunk. I think he's a fan of good wrestling, and puts a premium on good matches.

[Shining Wiz]

I don't see why having 'indy' draws and touring means NXT can't still be a developmental league. It's going to be developmental the same way ROH and ECW were before them, except call ups will already have the WWE style down. It's smart to do on multiple levels- untapped market, better prepared call up, network content, etc...

[Dylan Waco]

In theory I think you are right, BUT what if we end up with a situation where Zayn for example is never called up because he's the "ace" of the touring NXT brand?

[Shining Wiz]

Well, if NXT steps into that ROH/ECW role, there will be some guys who are great at that level, but won't translate/aren't seen as being able to translate on the main roster.

 

From a personal enjoyment point of view, I'd rather watch Zayn in important NXT matches than the WWE midcard.

 

From a professional point of view, it might become more a case of 'move on/over' to the main roster rather a 'call up'.

[Sean Liska]

I've been thinking about this. If this all works and they're touring and making money and selling merch, I can see Vince wanting to monetize it further by getting them a legit TV show. Which could be good and bad. It will help them sell more tickets, but lead to much more attention from management.

[Sean Liska]

I've said this before, but I suspect that the underlying goal is for HHH to create a shadow promotion of wrestlers, announcers, referees, a crew and a production team that is loyal to him first and foremost. One day, we'll look up and Vince will still have his title but will be almost a non-factor in day-to-day operations, because nearly everyone in the company is an HHH guy as opposed to a Vince guy. It's actually a wise play on HHH's part, because if he sits around and waits for Vince to retire, he will never get there.

As long as Vince has the final say in who gets paid, he'll have enough loyalty. But I think it is good experience for HHH to pretty much build his own promotion from the ground up into a legit touring brand. Vince can't send him off to run a territory, so this is the next best thing before he takes over some day.

[Parties]

There’s a lot more worth saying about this, but you can really feel the “territory with TV” aspect in having guys like Rhyno and Kendrick come in for two week stints. It’s a great point that this is no longer a “rookie” promotion. It’s more like FOX setting up Searchlight as the film division for their smart, artsy stuff.

Sorry if this derails the topic, but what’s the over-under on Vince working full time in his current role? He turns 70 this year, and I cannot fathom a 75 year old man working 12 hours a day just so that he can write lame skits where Seth Rollins shits his pants while on a date with Charlotte Flair. Even if Vince wants to be Vince until the day he dies, I have to think that either the kids or Board of Directors step in at some point.

While I get the skepticism about HHH as a true-blue CEO going into meetings with the Masters of the Universe, I’ve never understood this idea that the company’s biggest investors and chairs think that no one else could ever possibly run this company. I don’t know if that’s really what the Board thinks, or if it’s what the internet assumes the Board thinks. Either way, publicly or privately, there are substantive contingency plans in place when your boss is a volatile 70 year old man who may or may not be on HGH.

[Sean Liska]

No one can force Vince out with the way they're set up. He has no hobbies except for working out. He doesn't do high-society socialite functions, he's not hanging out in Manhattan with other billionaires at fundraisers. He doesn't golf. He doesn't spend weekends in Santa Barbara or Martha's Vineyard. He doesn't vacation in Europe. All he does is lift weights and produce wrestling. He lives to fly to Dayton and yell at announcers during Smackdown. I can see him running things for 15 more years if he stays healthy.

[KrisZ]

What I would do is have two NXT crews....one that tours and one that runs the old Florida schedule with that crew being made up of all the trainees and guys not on the main NXT shows. That way you get to do both things you want to do.

[Childs]

There’s a lot more worth saying about this, but you can really feel the “territory with TV” aspect in having guys like Rhyno and Kendrick come in for two week stints. It’s a great point that this is no longer a “rookie” promotion. It’s more like FOX setting up Searchlight as the film division for their smart, artsy stuff.

 

Sorry if this derails the topic, but what’s the over-under on Vince working full time in his current role? He turns 70 this year, and I cannot fathom a 75 year old man working 12 hours a day just so that he can write lame skits where Seth Rollins shits his pants while on a date with Charlotte Flair. Even if Vince wants to be Vince until the day he dies, I have to think that either the kids or Board of Directors step in at some point.

 

While I get the skepticism about HHH as a true-blue CEO going into meetings with the Masters of the Universe, I’ve never understood this idea that the company’s biggest investors and chairs think that no one else could ever possibly run this company. I don’t know if that’s really what the Board thinks, or if it’s what the internet assumes the Board thinks. Either way, publicly or privately, there are substantive contingency plans in place when your boss is a volatile 70 year old man who may or may not be on HGH.

 

CEOs in their 70s aren't exactly unusual in the corporate world. Sumner Redstone is 91. Rupert Murdoch is 83. I don't think Vince would or could be pushed aside easily.

[goc]

I am pretty sure it's impossible for Vince to be removed by his family or a Board of Directors. Besides, the HGH thing seems somewhat pointless to mention as I can't think of any good reason a 70 year old person SHOULDN'T be able to use HGH.

[(BP)]

HGH aside, Vince is said to drink at least twice the recommended number of energy drinks every day at 70-years-old. Factoring in every substance he's historically been believed to put in his body, the dude better have a cardiologist on speed dial.

[dawho5]

Recently picked up the Network and started watching NXT from where they have it starting (Feb. 2014 IIRC). So far I enjoy the presentation and the wrestling quite a bit more than a lot of the WWE stuff. I suppose we can hope that Vince leaves NXT as is as a training tool for HHH. It's not like the majority of the NXT guys are really Vince type guys anyways. Most are more the alternative, indy type guys that Vince seems to hate the idea of as big stars and will only push when he needs to keep the fans in line. The announcing isn't much better than the main show though, except for when Regal shows up.

[Parties]

I am pretty sure it's impossible for Vince to be removed by his family or a Board of Directors. Besides, the HGH thing seems somewhat pointless to mention as I can't think of any good reason a 70 year old person SHOULDN'T be able to use HGH.

 

This was more just me wondering what his health is like. He's a guy who by some accounts has subsisted on coke, pills, roids, and roast beef since 1985. But for all I know he could have incredibly good genetics.

 

What I was picturing was less of a hostile takeover and more of a situation where he turns 75 and Steph gently asks him to step aside while he still can on his own terms. But it's a good point that guys like Vince/Trump/Redstone/Murdoch view themselves as uniquely immortal. Plus all the new psych talk which says that people live longer when they have work or some other cause to live for.

[Matt D]

In theory I think you are right, BUT what if we end up with a situation where Zayn for example is never called up because he's the "ace" of the touring NXT brand?

How does this compare to 09 ECW?

[Dylan Waco]

09 ECW was an extension of the universe that already existed in WWE for better or worse. In a sense it was self contained, but they weren't running separate shows, and in no way was the show designed to cater to the indie fan. On top of it ECW during that era was not tasked with the literal training of new talent, even if you can argue that they were tasked with the "development" of some of them.

 

If you are asking to compare Zayn to Christian, I still don't think it's really the same thing. Zayn is portrayed as the babyface ace of NXT, the top guy on a show that exists in it's own universe, which is increasingly a universe that is meant to resemble the universe of Zayn's origin. Christian was the ace of a third tier brand, who's biggest matches and storylines - while good - were never given main event heading on the companies big events, and rarely ever saw the light of day on the flagship show of the company. Its weird because Zayn is working in a studio setting, and Christian was working in major arenas, but Zayn feels like the top star of a budding independent promotion, whereas Christian was basically a really great TV champion working at Center Stage every week.

[goc]

 

In theory I think you are right, BUT what if we end up with a situation where Zayn for example is never called up because he's the "ace" of the touring NXT brand?

How does this compare to 09 ECW?

 

I think had they developed the 3rd brand as something NEW instead of calling it ECW they could have already built it up to where NXT is now YEARS ago. By 2008 the talent was there to be a viable touring group for small arenas with some key veterans working with new guys but they had already tried running ECW as a standalone touring act in 2006 and it bombed because it wasn't ECW.

[Timbo Slice]

Steven and I talked about this very thing on the PWSS podcast we did this week. I basically asked if NXT was even an developmental territory at this point considering the talent they have there and how even if they are considered "WWE main roster ready" that they still have what it takes to build a successful brand. I do like Loss' theory about HHH basically building up a shadow promotion of sorts.

[Bierschwale]

 

I am pretty sure it's impossible for Vince to be removed by his family or a Board of Directors. Besides, the HGH thing seems somewhat pointless to mention as I can't think of any good reason a 70 year old person SHOULDN'T be able to use HGH.

 

This was more just me wondering what his health is like. He's a guy who by some accounts has subsisted on coke, pills, roids, and roast beef since 1985. But for all I know he could have incredibly good genetics.

 

Wikipedia says that Jess died at 72 and Vince Sr. at 69, but his mother is still alive at 94/95 and that his paternal grandmother died at 105/106. So who the hell knows?

[Tim Evans]

What I would do is have two NXT crews....one that tours and one that runs the old Florida schedule with that crew being made up of all the trainees and guys not on the main NXT shows. That way you get to do both things you want to do.

 

That would kill the business in Florida if shows are main evented by Bull Dempsey vs Baron Corbin ever week. What I think they should do is start slowly doing shows on the road. Maybe 1 weekend a month.

 

I think NXT is gonna have a problem when guys like Zayn, Neville and Balor are called up. They need to start giving some tv time to the college athletes they signed like Gable, Fulton, Dawkins and Mojo. And not in just jobber matches either but competitive matches vs the Indie darlings.

[goodhelmet]

When guys sign with WWE, there is a "chasing the dream" aspect that hasn't been mentioned yet. Guys who are on the indys aren't signing with WWE (or NXT) to be NXT Superstars. They are signing with dreams of being the next Rock, Austin, Bret Hart or Honkytonk Man. I don't know how much Balor made in New Japan, but there will come a time when he will be frustrated they haven't called him up yet. Zayn and Owens aren't in NXT, making significantly less than they were in the Indys, so they can spearhead the developmental league for years. Rollins & Ambrose were vocally unhappy about not being called up for months before they finally hit the main roster. Chris Hero makes much more on the indys and in Japan than he ever made in developmental so this brings up another point... How are the contracts going to be structured for developmental talent who are in a touring company? When they start touring, will WWE pick up the tab for travel and rooms the same way the indys pick up the tab? Do developmental guys get a cut of merchandise (I really don't know)? At what point do guys like Zayn and Owens say "Fuck this" and start making more money in a happier environment outside of WWE?

 

I think for this to work for indy guys, you need to sign two types of guys at all times... guys you expect to move to the main roster and guys who will never have a shot at the main roster but would make good hands until they finally give up. In the first category, you put in guys like Zayn, Balor etc. who really should be on the main roster now. On the 2nd hand, you keep guys like Hero, sign guys like Davey and Eddie (when they had the chance) and then you just lie to talent until it is no longer useful to keep them around since they are chasing the dream. It sounds pretty fucked up when it feels like the purpose of NXT is to be a stepping stone to WWE but you need to create a shadow system (to go along with Loss's shadow company) where you hire bodies to help your real WWE prospects along the way.