Grimmas Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Discuss here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 He's was an interesting case for me, didn't really know if he had a shot or not. Now that I'm really delving into his work he'll definitely be making my list. The ultimate example of a guy who built up an aura and worked that aura to the maximum possible effect. Stiff as hell, but in a way that I never felt detracted from the match, like say a Low-Ki. It's true that he was very much only a Cali indies guy for the most part, and injuries did cut his career woefully short. But, what is out there I find very interesting, and while my main reason for nominating Dragon is that he's a great wrestler I would be remiss in not mentioning that I get excited to watch him wrestle and that means a lot to me. By the way, anyone who is a big fan of Pentagon Jr. should check Dragon out, there are a lot of similarities present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 He wasn't there long, but I did love pretty much everything he did in ROH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 I think he got cringeworthy stiff to the point where it was dangerous at times, like Low-Ki stiffing your random indie scrubs, and it was in a way that was too much at points for me. I'm not sure how well his stuff has held up considering I last watched Super Dragon Evolution like four years ago, but in PWG, he has an aura unlike anyone else, really, and he did have some electric match-ups before the injuries shut him down. I don't think he'll make my 100, but he's someone to consider if you're big into the indies right after the boom, as he really was probably the biggest guy that didn't work a major East Coast indie that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 I think he got cringeworthy stiff to the point where it was dangerous at times, like Low-Ki stiffing your random indie scrubs, and it was in a way that was too much at points for me. I'm not sure how well his stuff has held up considering I last watched Super Dragon Evolution like four years ago, but in PWG, he has an aura unlike anyone else, really, and he did have some electric match-ups before the injuries shut him down. I don't think he'll make my 100, but he's someone to consider if you're big into the indies right after the boom, as he really was probably the biggest guy that didn't work a major East Coast indie that much. The stiffness I'll keep an eye on because so far I have yet to reach that point with him. I'm nearing the end of 2004, and he just finished getting his ass handed to him by Samoa Joe. As a result he's working on building his aura back up and while still stiff there's a decided hesitation to his offense and less violence behind it. Maybe that changes over time but as of yet I haven't seen him get to a level I would consider recklessly stiff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InYourCase Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 I haven't seen a lot of early-2000's Super Dragon that Bill has been pimping lately, but 2006 Super Dragon would fall under the "dangerously stiff" category. That added to the ROH/CZW feud, which he was absolutely excellent in. Not sure if there is a reason why he didn't get booked more after that, but he was every bit as good as Necro during the feud. It's stuff now that is cringe worthy because of the sheer brutality, but it certainly made him stand out. His 2006 BOLA match with Necro is something else. Necro knocks him out a few minutes into the match and the two proceed to shoot on each other with punches and chairs. It's, ummm, insane. Probably wouldn't make my Top 100, but would be damn close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Wait, which Super Dragon are we talking about? Seriously though, I enjoyed a lot of his work over the years but he always felt like a guy with a rep enhanced by the mystique of most of the pimped Revolution Pro matches never showing up on tape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Super Dragon in Jersey All Pro was a blast. I saw him fight Beef Wellington in Rahway once and it was fun as fuck. Oh, and I think that was the night he tried to land on GLF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bierschwale Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 My greatest fear as a wrestling fan has always been to watch old Dragon matches and find out that he was just the Brody of my generation; AURA and not much else. The friggin' aura. Interestingly, I think that he might have a better case for top 100 had he been signed by WCW with Blitzkrieg in '99 and could have had a few great C-show performances, but he'd also have lost some of the aura and wouldn't seem like as important of a figure in the rise of the independents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedhemingway Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 As a SoCal guy, I'm heavily biased, but Super Dragon has been one of my favorite guys since I got into indy wrestling. I love him just beating the shit out of people (poor TARO), and his interactions with the crowd are second to none for a guy who didn't talk. I always thought he deserved more of a chance than he ultimately got, but injuries and stiffness probably had a lot to do with that. He's also one of the few guys who made me care about something Davey Richards was doing, as their team was pretty fun. Had that vibe of Davey trying to match up to Super Dragon at times, kinda like a little brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benbeeach Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Could easily see him missing a top 100 but I love 'em like a top 75 worker. Wouldn't have been for him lacking, just other wrestlers being better. Like others have said, the aura. As expressive a guy as I can ever remember who didn't talk and had his mouth and eyes covered. Had charisma, could brawl, could get down on the mat, could fly. He looks like everything that was wrong with indie wrestling on the surface but he was great. Also has got to get some points for making Davey Richards interesting and watchable. Didn't seem like much of a feat at the time, but hindsight being 20/20, that was all Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eegah Posted January 13, 2016 Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 Ive been thinking about Super Dragon a lot lately for this project. At face value he is definitely a guy who works stiff as all get out and never graduated from the indy scene but he has that "It" factor. When I first started watching PWG in the early days after hearing the buzz I gravitated towards him. It would be easy for me to think of a ton of guys who are crisper, better at psychology, or just "wrestling" in general than Dragon. He has that gravitational pull that reels me in anytime I see his match, much the way of someone like Sabu. Im going to revisit some of his stuff and if anyone has recommendations feel free to post. I think it is going to be hard for him to not make my list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Schneider Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 I think he is going on and Sabu isn't. I think that is probably because his career ended early and we didn't see his shtick get run to the ground in TNA or something. He has total control of his atmosphere and still comes off huge, hell he showed up again after 4 years off and was in one of my favorite matches of 2015, just to disappear again. He could go a bit long, but after revisiting his best stuff he just has such a great insane presence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentin Skinner Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 I need to watch more, but Super Dragon could easily make my list in the 80-100 range. He's one of those rare indie guys that just exudes this special aura. Whenever you see him, you know some shit is going down. It's this feeling of danger that not many people match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 For folks who are huge fans, how much do you think your ranking is impacted by his gear? Would he rank the same way if you saw his face rather than the mask, gloves and full outfit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 For folks who are huge fans, how much do you think your ranking is impacted by his gear? Would he rank the same way if you saw his face rather than the mask, gloves and full outfit?Hey man whatever works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Indeed. Just curious about the things that do work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 I think he is going on and Sabu isn't. I think that is probably because his career ended early and we didn't see his shtick get run to the ground in TNA or something. He has total control of his atmosphere and still comes off huge, hell he showed up again after 4 years off and was in one of my favorite matches of 2015, just to disappear again. He could go a bit long, but after revisiting his best stuff he just has such a great insane presence. Do you have Necro in the same neighborhood or well above? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eegah Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 I think his mask is definitely awesome, the rest of his gear is okay. He finds a way to be emotive despite being behind the mask but i definitely dont think it hurts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Schneider Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 I think he is going on and Sabu isn't. I think that is probably because his career ended early and we didn't see his shtick get run to the ground in TNA or something. He has total control of his atmosphere and still comes off huge, hell he showed up again after 4 years off and was in one of my favorite matches of 2015, just to disappear again. He could go a bit long, but after revisiting his best stuff he just has such a great insane presence. Do you have Necro in the same neighborhood or well above? Probably in the same neighborhood. I think best Necro is better, but he also has bigger lows. My draft list is still pretty drafty. I would be interested in what others think of that comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliott Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 So like 15 years ago I bought a Best of Super Dragon, tape with matches against guys like Excalibur in front of 13 people and I thought it was pretty fucking awesome. Then I literally did not think about him for 15 years until everyone started going crazy about the Necro Butcher match a few months back. So I eventually watched that and holy fucking shit was it amazing. So give me some specific recommendations. What are his absolute top tier best matches? What are some matches, hopefully online, that showcase his best traits? It is too late for him to make my list unless I watch like 10 more matches the level of the Necro Butcher match, but my interest is piqued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Schneider Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 I have been doing a C+A of Super Dragon over at Segunda Caida http://segundacaida.blogspot.com/2015/09/complete-and-accurate-super-dragon.html Not as many reviews as some other C+A's but it has some other gems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 There's a pretty surprising amount of Super Dragon stuff on youtube actually, including singles matches vs. Danielson and Low Ki which are, surprise surprise, quite good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XLcqdv4j4o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El McKell Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 He's violent and intense & he carries himself like a real star which makes him stand out in the environments he spent most of his career in. I could say that exact same sentence about Low Ki too except Low Ki was at a higher level when it comes to those things. What I watched for this so far and my match ratings Low Ki vs Super Dragon (28/07/01) ***¾ Super Dragon vs TARO (29/11/03) *** Super Dragon vs Kevin Steen (16/12/05) ***½ Super Dragon, Chris Hero & Necro Butcher vs Samoa Joe, BJ Whitmer & Adam Pearce (23/04/06) **** Super Dragon vs Necro Butcher (02/09/06) **** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr JMML Posted April 25, 2023 Report Share Posted April 25, 2023 His work in the ROH vs CZW feud was awesome until he got injured and his match against Necro Butcher in 2006 is a classic but still he isn't a top 100 wrestler ever in my opinion. vs Necro Butcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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