Tenryu vs. Kawada

[DR Ackermann]

I actually haven't seen it in forever but I remember thinking KENTA might pull out the win at the time. That was like 8 years ago and I was a big KENTA fan then so maybe it was more wishful thinking on my part. I should watch it again.

[rvd356]

Well objectively I know Kawada is better. Just a better wrestler overall. Kawada was in 3 or 4 of my top 10 men's tag team matches of ALL time(it's too hard for me to have a definitive #1 anything really). in singles matches it's a bit harder, because there is so many, but I know he's in several of my top 20. Maybe I'm weird but my favorite singles series is v. Stan Hansen I think. I don't like him as much as most people. He is easily a Top 10 wrestler of all time, but to most that would be severely under rating him.

 

Tenryu is sneaky good though and of course has that crazy longevity. I know I'm the only one here, but to me Tenryu v. Keiji Mutoh Triple Crown match 08.06.01 is *****, one of my favorite matches, easy MOTY, a top 5 MOTDecade. But that's just me, 01 Mutoh was what got me into Puro and this match is special to me. I love that Mutoh when he was good(rare I found out), he was as much fun as anyone ever in Japan, to me personally. Not to mention Tenryu was 51 years old and has to be the oldest guy v. Best match. Mutoh/Kawada from 2002 I think is dAmn good but I haven't watched it in so long I can't really rate it.

 

Also Tenryu/Jumbo 06.05.89 is easy ***** . another one of my Top 10/15 matches of all time. I've rewatched these two matches more than any Kawada singles matches I bet.

[JerryvonKramer]

Tenryu and Kawada both feel like "the Pepsi" to the Coca Cola of Jumbo / Misawa.

[BillThompson]

Tenryu and Kawada both feel like "the Pepsi" to the Coca Cola of Jumbo / Misawa.

 

So, much much better?

[JerryvonKramer]

 

Tenryu and Kawada both feel like "the Pepsi" to the Coca Cola of Jumbo / Misawa.

So, much much better?

 

[WingedEagle]

I definitely come out a Cokehead in that camp. Although perhaps Tenryu could be squeezed in as Diet Coke? Definitely not sweet.

[Jingus]

Tenryu is Cherry Dr Pepper. Perhaps not the most popular, and rather pruny; but heavily preferred by the connoisseur.

 

And he's who I voted for. Nothing against Kawada, but I kinda saw this as comparing Terry Funk to Vader. The latter is arguably better at doing his relatively narrow style than the former is at doing anything; but the former can do so many different things and does them plenty well enough that I think it's worth it to go with the guy who shows lots more variety.

[Childs]

Tenryu is Cherry Dr Pepper. Perhaps not the most popular, and rather pruny; but heavily preferred by the connoisseur.

 

And he's who I voted for. Nothing against Kawada, but I kinda saw this as comparing Terry Funk to Vader. The latter is arguably better at doing his relatively narrow style than the former is at doing anything; but the former can do so many different things and does them plenty well enough that I think it's worth it to go with the guy who shows lots more variety.

I love Tenryu but I don't think he varied what he did significantly more than Kawada. He worked in a wider variety of contexts I suppose but I don't see the Funk-Vader analogy at all.

[Jingus]

Tenryu did comedy, for one thing. That's a big difference, ol' stodgy Kawada was too serious for that kind of stuff. Tenryu used blood; he'd gig his face, arm, chest, wherever. Tenryu would do hardcore brawls and use weapons. "You want me to fling myself FACE-FIRST into exploding barbed wire? I like the way you think, boss!" He was comfortable in any environment; whether he was doing a worked-shoot match with a UWFI invader or throwing Undertaker into a casket, he never looked out of place. He was willing to do goofy shit like being a Fake Hayabusa, and grim shit like punching a guy in the face until the poor schmuck was bleeding all over the ring. Okay, Kawada would totally do that last one too; but he certainly never even tried to do all the other stuff.

[ohtani's jacket]

Tenryu had no interest taking face-first bumps into exploding barbed wire in the '94 bout with Onita. I don't know what he was like when they re-ignited their feud in '99. Kawada fought Takayama on the 9/11/96 UWF-i that was headlined by Tenryu vs. Takada, so he has one worked shoot under his belt. Tenryu never really worked shoot style even in his bouts vs. UWF-i workers, and you could argue that Kawada's match against Albright is better that anything Tenryu produced during his feud with UWF-i. And Kawada worked Hustle, which may or may not be funny, but was a comedy fed.

[Jingus]

Tenryu had no interest taking face-first bumps into exploding barbed wire in the '94 bout with Onita.

What? Skip to 23:40 in the following video, pleez:

 

 

And Kawada did occasionally flirt with other styles for the briefest of first-base makeout sessions. Tenryu was practically a polygamist, marrying a different style every year.

[ohtani's jacket]

How is that a face first bump? He uses his hand and shoulder to brace himself. Am I taking you too literally? It's hard to tell with the cut, but it looks as though he sticks his hand out and turns on impact.

Kawada more or less stuck with the same promotion his entire career. Tenryu wandered about because SWS and WAR folded. Why reward Tenryu for freelancing indy promotions while praising Kawada for staying with ol' faithful?

[Jetlag]

Kawada also has a shootstyle bout in U-Style, against Illioukhine if I remember correctly. Don't you forget it! Actually I just looked it up and it was only 4 minutes. I remember it being pretty good though.

[Jingus]

How is that a face first bump? He uses his hand and shoulder to brace himself. Am I taking you too literally? It's hard to tell with the cut, but it looks as though he sticks his hand out and turns on impact.

And the AJPW/NOAH guys use their hands, forearms, and shoulders to brace themselves when they're taking those spine-crunching deathplexes, but we still call them "head drops". Tenryu's face was, at best, a couple inches away from the wire; close enough for me.

[El-P]

The only reason Tenryu did more various thing while Kawada didn't is because All Japan were isolationnists. When Kawada touched something different (like it's been said with Allbright), he was brillant. Tenryu worked everywhere, so of course it appears like he was more varied. I have zero doubt in my mind that Kawada would have had a better match with Onita than Tenryu had in 94. And Tenryu is one of my all-time favourites.

[JerryvonKramer]

I think this would be so much more interesting if it was "who was the coolest looking bad ass?"

 

I always imagine Kawada's apartment to be something like Detective Harvey Bullock's out of Batman. He's always slightly unkempt, unshaven, possibly hungover. Maybe none of that is true, but in my mind, that's how I imagine Kawada as a character. Misawa and Kobashi are both clean cut good kids, Kawada is out the back smoking a joint, or eating a donut, or whatever. Just the vibe he gives off.

 

Tenryu also gives off a vibe. His face is so ... contemptuous of everything. He's is such an ass kicker.

 

So "who gives off the coolest vibes" is more interesting to me than "who was the better wrestler?" or "who had the best career?"

[El McKell]

I think this would be so much more interesting if it was "who was the coolest looking bad ass?"I always imagine Kawada's apartment to be something like Detective Harvey Bullock's out of Batman. He's always slightly unkempt, unshaven, possibly hungover. Maybe none of that is true, but in my mind, that's how I imagine Kawada as a character. Misawa and Kobashi are both clean cut good kids, Kawada is out the back smoking a joint, or eating a donut, or whatever. Just the vibe he gives off.Tenryu also gives off a vibe. His face is so ... contemptuous of everything. He's is such an ass kicker.So "who gives off the coolest vibes" is more interesting to me than "who was the better wrestler?" or "who had the best career?"

Is who gives off the cooles vibes a better question? I'd end up giving that to Kawada but the things that break the tie are dumb stuff like Kawad's missing teeth, Tenryu's silly looking perm in the 90s and how lame his enziguri looks.

[Grimmas]

Tenryu and Kawada both feel like "the Pepsi" to the Coca Cola of Jumbo / Misawa.

Oh man, I prefer Kawada to Misawa and Jumbo to Tenryu. So yeah, like a blind pepsi challenge it really depends on the type.

[GOTNW]

I think GWE has also been a tale of missed opportunities. We've seen some great things like elliot's Tamura C+a but the initial run of opening comparison threads like this was quickly replaced with the usual circle jerking. I realise some people have grown to hate comparing wrestlers through the project. I haven't. I have grown tired of the circle jerking and the debates about the same wrestlers repeating themselves. If anything, there is much more to explore by directly comparing wrestlers now that we've all gone through GWE hell and there are no more imaginary "stakes" at play.

Now, to finally answer the question asked in the thread title. I ended up ranking Tenryu three spots higher. And I'm not sure it's really about longevity for me. I've seen a shitload of Tenryu and a shitload of Kawada. I would much rather watch Tenryu matches I haven't seen already and revisit Tenryu than I would do the same for Kawada. And I think it comes down to me just flat out liking Tenryu's character a lot more. Anything that has Tenryu in it is instantly more attractive to my mind. Kawada is more of a guy who has a lot of great matches over a long period of time which I felt like I needed to recognize and honestly I'm starting to think I had him too high. It may be a case of diminishing returns because I've seen so many wrestlers play the Kawada-esque badasses and while the little touches he would add to his matches are still enough to differentiate him as an elite worker I do think there are times where his apathy isn't just part of his character but also represents how hard he was trying, especially in his later years when he could be great if he tried, and there were still plenty of great performances of him sometimes you'd get stuff like his 30 minute draw from a Global League vs Takayama that was dogshit. I don't think Tenryu has anything like that. So it may just be a case of me phrasing consistency differently but I feel like even if Kawada was more consistent it would still be different. And it's incredibly annoying I can't properly phrase this ability to portray a character that can be inserted into a wide array of roled, matches etc. and the wrestler having a guarantee he will bring something interesting to the match even if it isn't his best night because that was kind of my main criteria and the thing I look for the most in wrestlers.