WWE Talk September 28 to October 4

[Strummer]

yeah Cena will be gone from HIAC till December. I assume that means that he's dropping the US title to whoever he's working at the PPV. Let the speculation begin on the "personal issues". I was thinking more wellness than the total divas storyline with Dolph but maybe that's it.

[Strummer]

also probably need to note that Cena is taking time off during the height of football season and returning when it's nearing it's end. So when the numbers go up when he returns he can take credit. How Hollywood Hogan of him

[goc]

also probably need to note that Cena is taking time off during the height of football season and returning when it's nearing it's end. So when the numbers go up when he returns he can take credit. How Hollywood Hogan of him

[Strummer]

I don't think that's the only reason but it's funny it worked out that way. Ratings are at an all time low and he's taking time off. Hogan did the same thing in late 1998 when WCW started losing consistently to Raw

[Jingus]

There were pretty consistent reports about Hogan bragging about his great (coincidental) ratings backstage and in interviews. Has anyone said the same about Cena?

[Strummer]

it may mean nothing and just being coincidental but it's not like top guys haven't done this in wrestling before. It would be pretty unique for Cena to do this I would admit. But the cynic wrestling fan in me can't completely overlook the convenient timeline

[Jimmy Redman]

My thing is that Cena is a known workaholic, to the point of obsessiveness, coming back early from injuries and working hurt to do so.

 

It's pretty uncharacteristic for him to voluntarily take time off, so something pretty significant must be going on.

[DMJ]

I wouldn't be surprised if he's filming something too or even just taking time off to "test the waters" with auditions and whatnot. I didn't see it, but Trainwreck got solid reviews and from what I heard from friends who saw it (including my mom), Cena was good in it (my mom had no idea he was a wrestler).

 

I'm not sure what would surprise me more - Cena taking the time off as an opportunistic "power play" ala Hogan (just doesn't seem to match his track record) or the WWE having the common sense to finally say "Hey, maybe we don't need to overexpose our top guy by having him wrestle on all 52 RAWs a year."

 

If only they'd let Orton off the show for longer than 8 days at a time.

 

Also, Barrett returned this week...for what has to be his 9th "return" since his debut. I'm not a huge Barrett fan, but, man, when you're big return happens in a nothing midcard match in the middle of the lowest rated RAW in years, you can really tell how many shits are given about you by the higher-ups (answer: none. none shits.) I bring that up just to note that, if you held off on bringing in Barrett, he could've been brought back as something more special or in a more meaningful context - as a "spoiler" in some capacity (maybe he costs Reigns a match against Wyatt because he's sick of Reigns being "The Next Big Star" [a role Barrett once had] and we can transition Reigns into a fresh rivalry that would likely produce good matches) or as a Cena mystery opponent (especially if Cena is dropping the US Title soon). Him returning to pick up the storyline with Stardust makes logical storyline sense, but makes absolutely no sense when the WWE asks themself "How can I make an irrelevent character with potential relevant so that we can tap said potential?" In summation, Barrett's not a ratings draw and his return wasn't going to "move the needle" no matter what...but running the same play isn't good strategy when its not working and, when you're handed an opportunity to reinvigorate a character in a natural way, you should take it.

[Slasher]

Could just be that Cena is pretty burnt out and since he isn't in any major angles right now he saw it as an opportunity to take off to recharge his batteries.

[Loss]

I don't even remember them all off the top of my head, but how many times in the last year or two has there been some report of Cena being touch-and-go because he had some type of injury and we weren't sure yet how serious it was? He's avoided serious injury very narrowly multiple times. Whether that's the reason he's taking off or not, that stuff will eventually catch up to him and cut into his longevity, so it's good that he'll have some down time.

[jackwebb]

 

Even the little things like changing the opening of the show, or the color of the ring ropes... little things like that can add some freshness.

Agreed. They used the old steel railings as the ringside barrier when they did the old school RAW shows. Made a huge difference visually. A lot better than the black barrier they are using now IMO. Was hoping they would keep it.

[Matt D]

[rvd356]

When's the last time Hun-Tor, The King Of Kings got showed up by anyone at all? (Or at least, anyone besides Sting?) Serious question.

He put the Shield over, they're all doing great in WWE.

He put Bryan over, he's going to be the #1b baby face if he ever gets back.

He put over John Cena, he's the biggest star in WWE for the decade since.

He put over Batista 3x and he was the #2 guy for 5 years and damn good for his last run in '14

 

 

He was the only top guy to not put over Brock in his first run

-Brock couldn't handle his spot, took off for the UFC, returns after 8 years and THEN puts him over(he did win the big Mania rematch, and then lost at the next show in the cage blowoff match, so this ones a push)

He put over Chris Benoit 2x then cut his legs out and had Michaels as #1 face anyway

-Benoit went on a murder-suicide rampage and gave WWE the worst PR ever

He cooled off CM Punk's push when he was at his peak

-Punk couldn't handle his spot on the card, took off for UFC

He beat Sting at WrestleMania, but cheated to set up a potential rematch if Sting worked out

-Sting has a great match, top of the card for Sept, and gets a major injury and may never return

 

I dunno I think he's good judge of who's worth laying down for. And Brock has been my favorite wrestler since the day he debuted, to the day he left, and ever since he returned. Sting, Benoit and Punk all are in my top 20 all time, but Triple H is the constant and has to have his jobs mean something when they happen.

[Stiva]

Not to go into well-worn HHH territory but putting himself opposite the hottest act in the company time and again isn't something to praise him for. There's no way Bryan should have been working Kane in his first title program when Bryan/Batista and the Bryan/HHH rematch, this time for the title, were right there. There was no real reason for Evolution to work The Shield except that dumb Rollins turn that came way too early.

[Grimmas]

 

When's the last time Hun-Tor, The King Of Kings got showed up by anyone at all? (Or at least, anyone besides Sting?) Serious question.

He put the Shield over, they're all doing great in WWE.

He put Bryan over, he's going to be the #1b baby face if he ever gets back.

He put over John Cena, he's the biggest star in WWE for the decade since.

He put over Batista 3x and he was the #2 guy for 5 years and damn good for his last run in '14

 

 

He was the only top guy to not put over Brock in his first run

-Brock couldn't handle his spot, took off for the UFC, returns after 8 years and THEN puts him over(he did win the big Mania rematch, and then lost at the next show in the cage blowoff match, so this ones a push)

He put over Chris Benoit 2x then cut his legs out and had Michaels as #1 face anyway

-Benoit went on a murder-suicide rampage and gave WWE the worst PR ever

He cooled off CM Punk's push when he was at his peak

-Punk couldn't handle his spot on the card, took off for UFC

He beat Sting at WrestleMania, but cheated to set up a potential rematch if Sting worked out

-Sting has a great match, top of the card for Sept, and gets a major injury and may never return

 

I dunno I think he's good judge of who's worth laying down for. And Brock has been my favorite wrestler since the day he debuted, to the day he left, and ever since he returned. Sting, Benoit and Punk all are in my top 20 all time, but Triple H is the constant and has to have his jobs mean something when they happen.

 

That is incredibly misleading stance there.

 

He put over the Shield, kind of. The Shield was the hottest act in the WWE (next to Bryan) after Hunter was done they had broken up and Ambrose has not been the same, Rollins is in the top spot but is nowhere near a top guy and Reigns is on the fence right now. Sure he lost to them, but they were more over before the Evolution feud.

 

He put over Daniel Bryan? Bryan was the most over act in the company before Triple H got involved. Sure he jobbed to him in a match that shouldn't had happened and then the next month he was stuck facing Kane in an undercard match while Triple H and Evolution took on the Shield in the real main event.

 

He did put over John Cena, true statement. Cena was over before the feud, but still that cemented him.

 

He made Batista over ten years ago.

 

As for the other section.

 

Brock was a monster built as a big deal and here he is trading wins against Triple H. He barley recovered from that, what a waste of a year of him. Notice how Triple H, again, puts him self in with hot acts.

 

For Benoit he put over Benoit the same way he put over Bryan. Don't see how they are in different categories.

 

Punk could totally had handled the spot on the card? He left a few years later after being killed off after being the hottest act in the company with Triple H and left because Triple H was so shitty at putting everyone else down.

 

Yes, Sting recovered for his return later in the year, doesn't mean that WrestleMania with Triple H was not pure and utter shit.

 

Wow, what a great record Triple H has.

[Parties]

Bar's too low if we're praising Kane/Seth for containing concepts such as “a storyline” or “continuity”. Yeah, there's longstanding tension that's being made into a match. But the writing has been horrendous, and all over the map from moment to moment: serious business, comedy, melodrama. Kane can make garbage passable as a seasoned, comfortable talker in backstage sketches, but it's still two dork robots using verbiage placed through Google's Uzbek-to-English translation.

 

Regarding fall booking/taking chances:

• Survivor Series '98 was a 14-man tournament to crown a new world champ. Never would they book such a thing today. Austin-Taker was a fall program, today considered maybe the hottest feud they ever booked.
• '99-'00 were merely OK, but the whole tag team TLC phenomenon started at No Mercy '99.
• '01 was Austin-Angle moving into WWF vs. The Alliance, which was ambitious even if it bombed.
• '02 was the coronation of Lesnar (with back to back main events of, you guessed it, Taker-Brock).
• Fall '03 was terrible on the RAW side (HHH-Goldberg, Shane-Kane, Bischoff-Austin), but great on SD.
• Fall '04 sucked all around, but did have Taboo Tuesday, which was another case of a novel concept that bombed.
• '05: same deal as prior years (RAW sucks, SD's great) but intensified, where you have Michaels and HHH killing Cena's heat on RAW while SD is Batista/Eddy with a fun roster of Regal, Hardy, Kid Kash, Benoit, MNM, Juvi and Nunzio thrown in for good measure. You can see RAW falling into its bad habits around this time, if not earlier.
• '06: RAW's terrible (DX-McMahons, Spirit Squad, Kane-Umaga) with the yearlong Edge-Cena feud's conclusion in Sept as a somewhat bright spot. SD is King Booker/Finlay/Regal, MVP and Lashley rising, Rey-Chavo, a strong tag division that leads to the awesome 4-way ladder match that broke Mercury's face. Survivor Series seems pretty listless. December to Dismember effectively kills ECW as unique brand.
• Fall '07: Really bad compared to the fun first half of '07. HHH dominance of both shows (winning and losing multiple world titles, killing Umaga's heat). Lots of Orton, Khali, and Kennedy. Rey-Finlay and Batista-Taker are somewhat bright spots.
• '08: Summerslam's solid (Batista-Cena, Edge-Taker HIAC, Hardy-Henry, Punk-JBL). Unforgiven has two novel championship scrambles. Season is based on Jericho's big rise as top heel against HBK.
• '09: The rise of Punk over Jeff Hardy and Taker, Legacy/DX, more Cena-Orton. Beginning of openly running lame non-finishes on PPV so that they can do the same match three times in three months. Survivor Series headlined by Cena vs. HHH vs. HBK. The beginning of where they're at now with low buys and bad shows.
• '10: Terrible. Death of the Nexus heat, Cena as Barrett's manservant, Kane-Taker, lots of bad RAW-SD infighting via Bragging Rights. Survivor Series has a 5-on-5 match off the Rey-Del Rio feud, but otherwise a very bad season.
• '11: A HHH-Punk feud that I forgot happened, Cena-Del Rio. Hall of Pain Mark Henry title run. Rock brought in for Survivor Series tag w/ Cena against Miz/Truth to build their Mania feud. Bryan heel turn.
• '12: Largely dull, unmemorable midcard stuff headlined by Punk uniting with Heyman against Cena and Ryback. Intro of the Shield. Ziggler beats Cena for a MITB contract in the main event of the December PPV, which seems amazing to consider now.
• '13: The Daniel Bryan debacle culminating in the title unification with Cena-Orton. Punk-Ryback feud now reversed. Debut of the Wyatts.
• '14: Lesnar wins the title, Shield feuds with each other (plus Wyatt-Ambrose), Authority loses power at Survivor Series then gains it back a few weeks later. Start of NXT Takeover shows.

When the shows have been good, it hasn't felt like they were taking Sept-Dec off. But the point remains that it's been ten years since the fall has felt as strong as the spring/summer. Meltzer's always credited Vince for being a guy who took the Paul Boesch lesson to heart: excuses (weather, football, other events booked the same night) are just that: excuses. I doubt Vince is looking at these ratings and saying, “NFL, what can ya do”. If he is, he's become a tired old man who's lost his grit.

[Russellmania]

 

 

When's the last time Hun-Tor, The King Of Kings got showed up by anyone at all? (Or at least, anyone besides Sting?) Serious question.

He put the Shield over, they're all doing great in WWE.

He put Bryan over, he's going to be the #1b baby face if he ever gets back.

He put over John Cena, he's the biggest star in WWE for the decade since.

He put over Batista 3x and he was the #2 guy for 5 years and damn good for his last run in '14

 

 

He was the only top guy to not put over Brock in his first run

-Brock couldn't handle his spot, took off for the UFC, returns after 8 years and THEN puts him over(he did win the big Mania rematch, and then lost at the next show in the cage blowoff match, so this ones a push)

He put over Chris Benoit 2x then cut his legs out and had Michaels as #1 face anyway

-Benoit went on a murder-suicide rampage and gave WWE the worst PR ever

He cooled off CM Punk's push when he was at his peak

-Punk couldn't handle his spot on the card, took off for UFC

He beat Sting at WrestleMania, but cheated to set up a potential rematch if Sting worked out

-Sting has a great match, top of the card for Sept, and gets a major injury and may never return

 

I dunno I think he's good judge of who's worth laying down for. And Brock has been my favorite wrestler since the day he debuted, to the day he left, and ever since he returned. Sting, Benoit and Punk all are in my top 20 all time, but Triple H is the constant and has to have his jobs mean something when they happen.

 

That is incredibly misleading stance there.

 

He put over the Shield, kind of. The Shield was the hottest act in the WWE (next to Bryan) after Hunter was done they had broken up and Ambrose has not been the same, Rollins is in the top spot but is nowhere near a top guy and Reigns is on the fence right now. Sure he lost to them, but they were more over before the Evolution feud.

 

He put over Daniel Bryan? Bryan was the most over act in the company before Triple H got involved. Sure he jobbed to him in a match that shouldn't had happened and then the next month he was stuck facing Kane in an undercard match while Triple H and Evolution took on the Shield in the real main event.

 

He did put over John Cena, true statement. Cena was over before the feud, but still that cemented him.

 

He made Batista over ten years ago.

 

As for the other section.

 

Brock was a monster built as a big deal and here he is trading wins against Triple H. He barley recovered from that, what a waste of a year of him. Notice how Triple H, again, puts him self in with hot acts.

 

For Benoit he put over Benoit the same way he put over Bryan. Don't see how they are in different categories.

 

Punk could totally had handled the spot on the card? He left a few years later after being killed off after being the hottest act in the company with Triple H and left because Triple H was so shitty at putting everyone else down.

 

Yes, Sting recovered for his return later in the year, doesn't mean that WrestleMania with Triple H was not pure and utter shit.

 

Wow, what a great record Triple H has.

 

your response shows just as much of a bias as the OP, namely with the bolded. I'm not saying HHH doesn't have his self-indulgent moments, but I really disagree with your assessment of the Shield and Bryan points.

 

The Shield was more over before the Evolution feud? What? By what metric? If that's just your opinion then my opinion is that the Evolution feud was the peak for them. They came out of that looking like a million bucks. They unequivocally defeated the top WWE faction of the last decade and were left standing tall (remember the final fist bump pose at the end of that final Shield/Evolution match?). That whole program was designed to make all 3 guys look like a billion bucks and it worked. I think it was also a natural time to break up the group and it did a good job of launching all 3 guys as singles (even of the booking afterwards sucked).

 

As for Bryan, HHH has never shown more ass than he did for Daniel Bryan. Remember the go-home RAW before WM 30? The show ended with Bryan savaging HHH and HHH bumping around like a pinball for a guy half his size. Bryan then beats him clean as a sheet at WM and then beats his 2 buddies the same night while overcoming interference from HHH and Steph, so he in fact got over on HHH twice in the same night (3 times in one week). I fail to see how the shitty booking of putting Bryan with Kane has anything to do with or takes anything away from HHH's efforts to put Bryan over. HHH really went over the top in putting Bryan over and it really helped Bryan...he'd probably be the first to say that.

[Grimmas]

The Shield vs Wyatts as the height of The Shield. After the Evolution feud they were broken up, so they did not come out of it looking better. In fact, all three came out of it looking worse.

 

As for Bryan, look at his reactions from SummerSlam through the Rumble. How did Triple H make those reactions higher? Yes, he put him over, but he was already the most over person in the company. Triple H made him look good and all, but it's not like he was all the sudden a bigger star than before. Rewatch the 2013 Rumble if you have to, to remember how over he was.

 

That is two instances were Triple H latched himself onto a super hot act and jobber to them. However, he was still latching himself onto a super hot act and did nothing to make those acts hotter. In fact immediately after both programs ended, they were worse off (broken up or facing Kane).

 

How did either get more over by facing Triple H. Was Bryan more over the night after Mania than at the Rumble? Was The Shield more over after they broke up then against the Wyatts?

[El-P]

Come on. Triple H made Booker T and Chris Jericho into legit main eventers too. He's a star maker and he got over just as big as The Rock and Steve Austin back in the days. And Stephy is a great promo. Get with the program people, you'll get them on TV until you (or WWE) die now.

[Grimmas]

Come on. Triple H made Booker T and Chris Jericho into legit main eventers too. He's a star maker and he got over just as big as The Rock and Steve Austin back in the days. And Stephy is a great promo. Get with the program people, you'll get them on TV until you (or WWE) die now.

Well Stephanie is a good promo...

[Bierschwale]

 

When's the last time Hun-Tor, The King Of Kings got showed up by anyone at all? (Or at least, anyone besides Sting?) Serious question.

 

Guessing when the Shield ran through Evolution last year, June 2014.

 

Yeah, he then kayfabe broke up The Shield and made its worst member (who was his personal favorite) his on-screen protege and in-ring proxy, who's now set for an 8+ month title reign. He won.

[El-P]

Grimmas, on 02 Oct 2015 - 7:39 PM, said:
Well Stephanie is a good promo...

 

In some alternate universe maybe. And like I mentionned before, it's really unfair to say X or Y is a good "promo" these days, since no one expect maybe one or two people cut actual promos anymore. They're all terrible actors badly delivering terrible written lines, really. I've seen better acting in 90's French porn or AB sitcoms. Ok, maybe not AB sitcoms.

[Coffey]

A good promo at putting herself over the entire roster, making everyone else look feeble, then never having to worry about getting shown up. She does nothing but hurt the show & the roster.

[Grimmas]

A good promo at putting herself over the entire roster, making everyone else look feeble, then never having to worry about getting shown up. She does nothing but hurt the show & the roster.

Nowadays I will give you that. During the Bryan feud she was really good though.

[El-P]

During the Bryan feud she was really good though.

 

I'll give you that. I actually really enjoyed her at that Mania, doing a totally decent Woman tribute act at ringside. That's the last time I enjoyed Stephy (and HHH for that matter).