2015 WON HOF Ballot Thread

[KrisZ]

The latest Between the Sheets brings up a very interesting talking point about how critical Sting was to the success of the nWo that I haven't really heard before

[soup23]

There is a lot of Edge going on around here.

[W2BTD]

It's very hard to see how Sting's WWE run this year significantly impacted business in a positive fashion. Outside of Sting working really hard to have a good match at Night of Champions with Seth Rollins, it was quite a lukewarm affair. Not a disaster, but not a home run either. To me it hammered the nails in the coffin of his candidacy (with the current deep ballot) rather helped it, because WWE booked him like someone they didn't have much faith in.

 

Sting headlining a major WWE show in 2015 basically strengthened what was already his #1 HOF attribute, which is that he's been a main event player for three different companies since 1988 (and added the most important company in the process). His longevity at the top is without a doubt the most impressive part of his argument.

[Dylan Waco]

Sting's longevity probably is one of his biggest strengths with those who support him, which is funny since it is wildly overstated.

[Childs]

Does appearing in a random one-off main event on a lesser B show make him a main-event player in WWE?

[Dylan Waco]

On Lagarde, I don't know if he's a better candidate than Ramirez or the Brazos, but I do know he was close to getting in last year, and I do believe he should be in. Lucha is a category that is clogged with solid candidates. When I see ballots coming back where one lucha candidate is voted for and six spots are left empty I just have to shake my head. There are eight people in that region I could have voted for (the five I did plus, Ramirez, the Brazos and LA Park), and I would listen to arguments for every single person in the category other than Vampiro. A ballot that comes back with two lucha votes for Dr. Wagner Jr and Perro Jr. and no one else is mind blowing and frustrating, and I'm not even dismissive of either of those guys (though I think the pattern with people voting for Perro is problematic for obvious reasons). My mindset with Lagarde is that he is a hall of famer, and he is close, and maybe he can get in this year and unclutter the section if I vote for him. Less sure about the prospects of that for Ramirez this year.

[kjh]

Does appearing in a random one-off main event on a lesser B show make him a main-event player in WWE?

 

He did appear in a key match at WrestleMania as well, but I would argue that this year's WM drew largely on its name value that it has built up over 30 years than any particularly hot feuds.

 

The problem with Sting's case is that outside the Crow run from Uncensored '97 to Superbrawl VIII, he was either:

(a) The headliner for a company that was losing money and struggling to draw at the gate or on pay-per-view;

or ( Just another guy in the main event mix.

 

His longevity on top is primarily a function of promoters overvaluing his worth to the company, signing him to sweet deals and then being forced to give him a main event push to justify his contract, which allowed him to resist WWE's overtures until the bitter end.

[WrestlingPower]

Re: someone only voting for Perro Jr. & Park in the lucha category, that tells me that it's a more modern fan. Someone that would have abstained had there been a Historical Mexico category with Lagarde, Ramirez, etc. in it. I think there should be more discussion around whether there should be a historical/modern breakdown per region or one historical category that spans all regions.

[funkdoc]

i said it last year and i'll say it again: mexico is the most stacked category by a RIDICULOUS margin. i think that likely owes itself to lucha almost always being the black sheep even among the hardcore fans, with only a couple brief exceptions (peak AAA, peak mistico).

[fxnj]

I'm not submitting a ballot but how the hell is Akiyama not already in? Until I saw people here voting for him I just assumed he'd been inducted at least a decade ago for his ring work.

[mookeighana]

Rovert pointed out Mark Madden's ballot:

 

[kjh]

Akiyama isn't in mainly because NOAH tried to push him as the company ace and it was viewed as a failure. He dropped straight off the ballot when he was first put on.

[kjh]

Rovert pointed out Mark Madden's ballot:

 

 

It's worth noting that The Andersons aren't on the ballot.

[soup23]

How well versed would Madden be on lucha?

[GOTNW]

Akiyama isn't in mainly because NOAH tried to push him as the company ace and it was viewed as a failure. He dropped straight off the ballot when he was first put on.

NOAH never pushed Akiyama as the ace. He was their #1 heel. He took Kawada's place.

[jdw]

Mine:

 

I FOLLOWED THE HISTORICAL PERFORMERS ERA CANDIDATES
Kinji Shibuya

I FOLLOWED THE MODERN PERFORMERS IN U.S/CANADA CANDIDATES
Bryan Danielson/Daniel Bryan

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN JAPAN CANDIDATES
Volk Han

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN MEXICO CANDIDATES
Blue Panther
Brazo de Oro & Brazo de Plata & El Brazo
Cien Caras
El Signo & El Texano & Negro Navarro
Huracan Ramirez

Karloff Lagarde

NON-WRESTLERS
Stanley Weston

 

* * * * *

 

Not overly enthused about any of the nominations beyond a Lucha category that's still bloated with reasonable candidates. Two of those categories are a "vote for someone" rather than a "I really think this guy must be in".

 

I'd also like to see the ice get more thawed on "groups". Perhaps Los Misioneros de la Muerte and the Brazos can start that process. There are other worthy groups that warrant being on the ballot, and some who warrant getting voted in.

[KrisZ]

John.....curious to hear your thoughts on V-3 and why you didn't vote for him

[C.S.]

Mark Madden posted his WON HOF picks on wrestlezone.com:

"Bryan is on my WON HoF ballot. I also voted for Brock Lesnar, Ivan Koloff, Perro Aguayo Jr., Gene and Ole Anderson, and the Assassins."

- Daniel Bryan = Odd Choice for The Observer Hall of Fame

- No! No! No! Who Isn’t On My Hall of Fame Ballot

[WrestlingPower]

I can see where he would be confused over the Andersons. While not listed on the ballot itself, they are listed under the section saying they would drop off the ballot if not getting 50%. Maybe that's left over from last year? It appears he also thinks that Ivan Koloff is historical.

 

So it appears Madden didn't vote for any non-wrestlers. And by voting in the modern category he essentially voted No for all non-wrestlers other than the 2 historicals. I think that's why no consensus is reached on those candidates. I think people see them as a "throw on if you feel like it" category & don't realize they count as part of a region.

[Cox]

There are enough non-wrestlers on the ballot who have their own weird voting rules that the time might have come to spin them off into their own region, rather than counting them as part of US Modern and US Historic, especially since there appears to be enough decent candidates there to have created a logjam in that group. There are probably better candidates in the US Modern Non-Wrestler group than there are in the US Modern Wrestler group at this point.

[El Boricua]

I would argue that every single group (Japan, Mexico, Europe, APICA, and Non-wrestlers) should be divided into both historical and modern groups as is done with U.S./Canada.

[jdw]

John.....curious to hear your thoughts on V-3 and why you didn't vote for him

 

I don't have a problem with V-3. Pretty sure I've voted for him in the past, and likely will again in the future if he doesn't get in this year. It was a "numbers" error on my part: I counted up 10 guys that I voted for, forgetting that Weston's group doesn't count against the 10 you can vote for.

[KrisZ]

Okay cool......we definitely need V-3 & Cien to get in this year

[Dylan Waco]

Villano 3 won't be on the ballot next year to vote for I'm afraid

[KrisZ]

A shame since he shouldv'e gone in over 10 years earlier