WWE TV January 25 to 31

[Eegah]

Smackdown was a pretty good show this week. Neville/Kalisto with a decent little match that suffered from a little abruptness, highlight reel with Jericho/Ambrose/Reigns was fun. They are moving the Divas title match along at a nice pace, AJ got to hit the Styles Clash for the first time in WWE after the numerous teases and the main event six man was fun. Show/Strowman will probably be dreadful but could be an entertaining dumpster fire.

[NintendoLogic]

The WWE guys have supposedly been doing a lot of Olympic lifts to try to prevent shoulder injuries, but it seems to be causing them instead.

[funkdoc]

The WWE guys have supposedly been doing a lot of Olympic lifts to try to prevent shoulder injuries, but it seems to be causing them instead.

 

olympic lifting shouldn't be the problem if properly done, i think

 

buuuuuuuut if they were doing something more like crossfit that would explain *a lot*. and considering that's by far the most popular form of "olympic lifting" these days, i could see that being the case.

 

for those who don't know, the big issue that makes crossfit really easy to fuck up is that it emphasizes speed. i.e. how many reps of X you can do in Y minutes. this is even the case with olympic lifts, which are technique-heavy movements that are meant to be performed slowly. that's why crossfit has developed quite a reputation for injuries - search "crossfit + rhabdo" if you want to be scared.

[The Man in Blak]

Cena and Cesaro posted a photo of their CrossFit workout a couple of years ago and Seth Rollins did a CrossFit-centered interview with Men's Journal a few months back, so it's certainly a known quantity in the WWE training regimen, even if it's not the most popular method throughout the roster as a whole.

[Blehschmidt]

We can apparently add Del Rio to the injury list as well. It is being reported that he suffered a back injury on a Brock suplex during the Rumble.

[Childs]

Something is broken. That isn't just a case of bad luck.

It doesn't feel like a mystery though. They work a more physically demanding style than previous generations, and in the case of the indy stars, they've been doing it for a decade or more. Sure, the lifting programs might be part of it, but I don't buy that as a magic bullet. The problem is it wouldn't be easy to turn the boat around. Fans expect a certain level of work now, and several generations of wrestlers have come up with that as the ideal. Not suggesting they should just throw up their hands, but it's a deep-seeded issue.

[WingedEagle]

We can apparently add Del Rio to the injury list as well. It is being reported that he suffered a back injury on a Brock suplex during the Rumble.

 

Yet another reason why I love Brock.

[Loss]

So he was injured on a card where he had to pull double duty because of all of the injuries? These problems feed themselves.

 

What will they do if Roman Reigns gets injured?

[Matt D]

To be fair, even if the roster was fully healthy, Del Rio might have been in both matches.

[NintendoLogic]

I honestly think lack of blood in current WWE is a big part of the problem. I think fans would be more willing to accept a match that consisted of nothing but punches and a few basic wrestling moves if both guys bled buckets. Since the wrestlers don't have that option, they have to resort to stuntman spots and high-risk maneuvers.

[Slasher]

I honestly think lack of blood in current WWE is a big part of the problem. I think fans would be more willing to accept a match that consisted of nothing but punches and a few basic wrestling moves if both guys bled buckets. Since the wrestlers don't have that option, they have to resort to stuntman spots and high-risk maneuvers.

Fans? Yes. Television executives? No. Some blood is probably okay but not "buckets".

[DMJ]

I don't know if I totally buy the "fans have been programmed" bit as a leading culprit. While I wouldn't argue that the workrate/high risk style isn't more common than it was 15 years ago, I'm not sure if that stopped tomorrow - if Big E stopped spearing people onto arena floors, if John Cena didn't attempt Code Reds, if Seth Rollins wasn't trying to powerbomb Kane off the top rope, etc., the audience would all of a sudden turn their backs on the product. Look no further than the booking of the storylines over the past half-decade as proof that there is a large segment of the audience that is willing to sit through just about anything. Take out half the high spots on any given episode of RAW and I don't think anything changes in dollars-and-cents terms.

 

So, I kind of put the blame for this on the agents, producers, and the people leading the ship. They are less patient than their audience. Just this week, AJ Styles busted out the Styles Clash on an episode of SD that few saw while, at the Rumble and RAW, they had built some serious suspense over when we'd finally get to see it. The answer was "You missed it" instead of them actually making it a moment at Mania. Again - the people in charge of the weekly episode TV series known as WWE are less patient than their audience.

[Childs]

The workers have learned to do it that way, whether the fans would demand it or not. WWE is now relying heavily on stars from the aughts indy boom, many of whom had beaten their bodies to hell before they ever signed. On top of that, they all learned to push the physical limits of their performances, which they continue to do even when they're hurting. It's not a culture that originated in WWE, but it's one WWE is now firmly a part of. Obviously, there were guys who fit a similar description in previous generations, like Eddy and Benoit, and they also got hurt.

[Loss]

WWE has at times led efforts to tone down the ring style but then they forget about it to focus on other things. In fact, I've been watching a lot of 2004 Raw lately, which is filled with 15-20 minute matches full of limb work and a greater emphasis on personal grudges. In a way, 2004 Raw feels more contemporary than 2016 Raw. The advantage to that was that you'd get a "holy shit" chant for a wrestler doing a pretty tame spot (at least by the standards of the late 90s and early 2000s) in a cage match. Now 2004 was a down period, but that was not at all because of the ring work, and even in that down period, the matches had a lot more heat than matches do now on Monday nights. You had guys working hard physically for sure, but they were also working smart. Never in my wildest dreams would I think a 20-minute RVD-Orton match built around a bodyscissors would be any good but it sort of was. You'd also get cool stuff like Jericho selling a knee injury in matches for three weeks. Even HHH wore a sling the night after WM20 to sell the crossface. Those are the little details that I do think make a difference in the big picture because they just make everything seem more consequential, and when stuff like that is emphasized, the guys don't have to push themselves quite as hard to get a reaction. The atmosphere that necessitates that continuously escalating mentality is the one where nothing matters.

[Jimmy Redman]

Getting off the point a bit, but I'm glad it's not just me who digs 2004 Raw. I absolutely loved the work on Raw at the time, and any time I go back there it more than holds up. I'd love to see some more thoughts from you on the period.

[Death From Above]

The thing I find weird about the "programmed style" (whether real or perceived) is how noticeable it is that the women's matches use a lot of joint locks that the men's matches simply never do.

[thebrainfollower]

There's a lot I liked about 2004 Raw but HHH's run on top, particularly the terrible way they handled the Orton face turn, left a sour taste in my mouth. Great near main events, mid card and women's division, lousy mains at times (Benoit I would argue was never the main event except when he was facing HHH and Shawn).

 

Oddly reminds me of peak Nitro.

[Jimmy Redman]

I wasn't talking so much about the booking as much as the in-ring quality. Although even the booking at its worst gets a pass from me because they are my childhood memories. At the time I didn't care.

 

But even in the HHH-dominated main event scene, the match quality was tremendous. You were pretty much guaranteed one long, awesome match every week (reminds me of late 00s SD in that regard). Hunter himself probably had his best in-ring year since 2000, without even looking at PPVs.

[Strummer]

there was also Orton/Edge from Vengeance 2004 that received a lot of internal praise from the company on how to work the new style.

[thebrainfollower]

I played in tournaments for the WWE CCG. A random "show up" prize was always a 2004 PPV DVD. In the course of 3 years I won 4 copies of Vengeance lol

[Superstar Sleeze]

Bryan was from Sheamus being a stiff piece of shit, rs.

Yes clearly Bryan is out because of Sheamus not because Bryan was trying to go a million miles per hour and prove he was every bit the wrestler he was before the injury such as taking half Nelson duplexes from Luke Harper. If it wasn't Sheamus, it was going to be someone else. No need to call Sheamus, a stiff piece of shit.

[Slasher]

Sheamus IS a stiff piece of shit but yeah Bryan's issues aren't on him.

[funkdoc]

that's been an issue outside of bryan for a while now. sleeze, i know he's your boy, but this is legitimately part of why sheamus can't have nice things.

 

see also: RVD not getting pushed more when he was the most over guy in the company because he would do things like break somebody's nose (jericho IIRC?)

[SomethingSavage]

I thought it was RVD busting up Kurt, at the point when they were going all in on Angle versus Austin.

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

I know he broke Edge's jaw. And of course crushed Hunter's throat.