"Political Hit"

[Matt D]

I think Dylan would stress more than "projects" but also making sure that HHH is the focal point, either through his human avatar on Earth in Rollins, or just himself, looking to things like his multiple highlighted segments at Mania last year and how he's presented as babyface now in some key ways.

[Loss]

I would put odds right around 50-50 that "those around Vince" convince him before Wrestlemania that Reigns is a lost cause even though they've tried so hard to build him up, and that HHH should hold the title until he can drop it to the returning Seth Rollins -- a guy guaranteed to be a massive babyface when he returns that Vince will never completely fall in love with because he's not freakishly huge.

[kjh]

Punk's pod with Cabana came out long after HHH put over Bryan and the Shield though

 

However, the word came out instantly from TMZ that "Punk was angry when he found out he'd be wrestling Triple H at WrestleMania."

[sek69]

I have a theory that might be a corollary to the "hit", I truly believe Vince (or Dunn, or someone else in the inner circle) thinks the only reason Roman didn't get over is because the fans were still hoping Daniel Bryan was coming back. I think it's why they gave 30+ minutes on Raw to a guy Vince clearly never saw anything special in just to make it clear to the fans he's gone and now it's okay to get behind Reigns.

 

I also think it's clear HHH is going out of his way to sandbag Roman, and last night should have removed any doubts. He was out there supposedly the dastardly heel while doing things designs to get face pops like banging Roman's head in a cadence designed to get the crowd to chant and doing DX chops.

 

It's kind of brilliant, because now either Vince has to stay on a failed course and have Mania end with his handpicked babyface get booed out of Texas by 80,000+ people, or change plans that would lead to either HHH retaining to adding a third guy who would almost certainly be a Hunter Guy.

[Strummer]

yeah Dave seemed to be thinking that something was up in that final segment. Real life/art. His "He's just not the guy" line basically sums it up for Reigns

[stomperspc]

The theory, by the way, isn't that *Vince* is deliberately sabotaging him. Nothing of the sort. It's that there is a power struggle between HHH and Kevin Dunn over the future of the company. HHH only wants his pet projects to get over, and Dunn is doing what he can to take them down a notch on the other side, because HHH and Stephanie have made clear that as soon as they get the chance, Dunn is out the door. The more Dunn can make HHH's ideas and judgment of talent seem questionable to Vince, the longer he can put off that happening [. . . ]

 

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

My main objection to the theory still stands. If Reigns is a pawn in a tug-of-war between Vince/Kevin Dunn and Triple H, then I would expect his misuse to look significantly different than the misuse of most WWE wrestlers. To me, it does not. That is what I am interested in reading. What about this Reigns’ situation leads people to believe that it must be the result of a major power struggle rather than WWE’s usual incompetence?

 

My personal opinion is that people are looking for a colorful explanation as to how WWE so badly mismanaged the push of a wrestler we have been told they want to push. Rather than accepting that it is equals parts the usual incompetent booking combined with Triple H’s usual desire to make himself look good at all costs, this theory has been concocted to explain it. I don’t see how the evidence points to that motive. To me, all the evidence points to is that the WWE has badly mismanaged Reigns and Triple H is doing his usual routine of making another wrestler look bad at his own expense. I am struggling from tying Reigns’ mismanagement into that motive, particularly when this promotion has been known to bungle pushes in similar fashions for less nefarious reasons.

[kjh]

Some related "Political Hit" reading, that cover some of the games going on between Triple H and Kevin Dunn:

 

Triple H vs. WWE Director Kevin Dunn: Battling over what's 'Best for Business' (June 16th, 2014): http://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2014/6/15/5812772/triple-h-vs-wwe-director-kevin-dunn-battling-over-whats-best-for

 

Machiavellian forces within WWE want Kevin Owens to fail (July 21st, 2015): http://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2015/7/20/9007075/kevin-owens-machiavellian-forces-within-wwe-want-to-see-him-fail

 

More on high WWE executive turnover: Vince McMahon's whimsical nature blamed (July 24th, 2015):

http://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2015/7/23/9027377/more-on-high-wwe-executive-turnover-vince-mcmahon-whimsical-nature-blamed

[The Man in Blak]

 

The theory, by the way, isn't that *Vince* is deliberately sabotaging him. Nothing of the sort. It's that there is a power struggle between HHH and Kevin Dunn over the future of the company. HHH only wants his pet projects to get over, and Dunn is doing what he can to take them down a notch on the other side, because HHH and Stephanie have made clear that as soon as they get the chance, Dunn is out the door. The more Dunn can make HHH's ideas and judgment of talent seem questionable to Vince, the longer he can put off that happening.

 

HHH was an advocate for Reigns and had no problem with him as the guy for a long time. Then Vince and Dunn got a little too on board with Reigns as the top guy and he was no longer just seen as HHH's project like The Shield was. HHH only wants guys who are HHH projects through and through getting over at the top level because he's planning on taking over the company one day and the transition may or may not be a peaceful one. The more guys who are around that owe him their success, the less resistance he is likely to face. So by getting rid of guys like Dunn, HHH is ultimately neutralizing Vince the same way chemotherapy often neutralizes a tumor by cutting off its blood supply. Vince may be CEO and Chairman of the Board for the next two decades, but when all of Vince's old cronies have been replaced with HHH cronies, Vince's title is just a vanity one because "his" guys are gone. One day, he'll look up and realize he doesn't run his company anymore, and it will have all happened so incrementally that he didn't even notice it until after the fact.

 

It affects Reigns because HHH puts forth ideas that he absolutely knows will hurt Reigns under the guise of helping him.

 

That's my interpretation of the theory.

 

Great summary!

 

 

Also, bonus points for comparing Vince McMahon to a malignant tumor.

[Loss]

 

The theory, by the way, isn't that *Vince* is deliberately sabotaging him. Nothing of the sort. It's that there is a power struggle between HHH and Kevin Dunn over the future of the company. HHH only wants his pet projects to get over, and Dunn is doing what he can to take them down a notch on the other side, because HHH and Stephanie have made clear that as soon as they get the chance, Dunn is out the door. The more Dunn can make HHH's ideas and judgment of talent seem questionable to Vince, the longer he can put off that happening [. . . ]

 

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

My main objection to the theory still stands. If Reigns is a pawn in a tug-of-war between Vince/Kevin Dunn and Triple H, then I would expect his misuse to look significantly different than the misuse of most WWE wrestlers. To me, it does not. That is what I am interested in reading. What about this Reigns’ situation leads people to believe that it must be the result of a major power struggle rather than WWE’s usual incompetence?

 

My personal opinion is that people are looking for a colorful explanation as to how WWE so badly mismanaged the push of a wrestler we have been told they want to push. Rather than accepting that it is equals parts the usual incompetent booking combined with Triple H’s usual desire to make himself look good at all costs, this theory has been concocted to explain it. I don’t see how the evidence points to that motive. To me, all the evidence points to is that the WWE has badly mismanaged Reigns and Triple H is doing his usual routine of making another wrestler look bad at his own expense. I am struggling from tying Reigns’ mismanagement into that motive, particularly when this promotion has been known to bungle pushes in similar fashions for less nefarious reasons.

 

 

I think the key difference between this and usual WWE incompetence is that we don't usually hear that they are trying to push guys and are high on them when they are using them horribly. In most cases, we find out Vince sees nothing in them and they are used in a scatterbrained way. That's the difference between what is happening with Reigns and how someone like Cesaro was used poorly.

[Grimmas]

If it's not a political hit than the WWE has the worst bookers of all-time if they are trying to make Roman their new ace.

[Goodear]

... and that's unlikely?

[JerryvonKramer]

If it's not a political hit than the WWE has the worst bookers of all-time if they are trying to make Roman their new ace.

Can't you see that there have been various changes of direction and cold feet on that idea though?

 

Like in no way was he booked to be their new ace coming out of the last mania, I went through it in detail.

 

Then Rollins and Cena both got injured, and Bryan retired, and so who could they go with? Back to Reigns.

 

Remember how quickly Vince jettisoned Ultimate Warrior after 1990? And that was a guy who was OVER.

 

The thing my mind always goes back to is the interview with Austin where he buried the damn millennials. He must have had Roman in mind. Who else was he talking about?

 

I don't think Roman being booked as a total pussy is a mistake either. It's Vince asking him again and again "Roman, do you have a back bone? Are you going to question any of this shit?"

 

It's a total mess for sure, but I do think everything is accountable without a conspiracy theory. Then again, I always think that on every single issue. On the whole, I think conspiracy theories give people too much credit. The truth is that life isn't as planned out as all that. Most people are just getting by doing their jobs, etc.

[sek69]

There seems to be several moving parts here. HHH/Steph clearly dislike Dunn, Dunn knows NXT is Hunter's baby and seems to be trying to bury anyone who gets called up right out of the box. This only feeds the fire with Hunter, and he seems to be going out of his way to undermine any attempt to establish Roman as the top guy because he's a Vince Guy and not a Hunter Guy. It's no mistake the only time he ever got cheered at the level they wanted was when Vince was out there taking bumps for him.

[Slasher]

I am not denying there is a power struggle between HHH and Dunn, but I think that is being given too much credit for what's happening. Do anyone honestly believe Vince would fire Dunn? Does anyone honestly believe Vince would turn over the company while he's still alive? Dunn is safe for as long as Vince is still breathing. Then when he does die, Triple H is firing Dunn no matter what. Dunn's job is not dependant on whether he can make Triple H look bad or not. It simply boils down to him depending on Vince's very existence, that's it. So all this is rather pointless anyways. Dunn is better off making sure Vince stays alive as long as possible than to undermine Triple H's projects.

[jcmmnx]

I think Vince really wants Roman over as a top guy. He wouldn't be on tv at 70 taking bumps for a guy he didn't want over at a top level. Someone has to be in Vince's ear giving him terrible advice. I want to say HHH, but the word is HHH had to talk them into letting Roman beat him up(one of the few things to get Roman over). There's just too much evidence at this point to say no.

[WingedEagle]

It's a total mess for sure, but I do think everything is accountable without a conspiracy theory. Then again, I always think that on every single issue. On the whole, I think conspiracy theories give people too much credit. The truth is that life isn't as planned out as all that. Most people are just getting by doing their jobs, etc.

 

 

Absolutely subscribe to this. We give people much too much credit for things that just occur in the course of folks going about their business and looking out for themselves.

[kjh]

The other moving part here is Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman and how they fit in. Last year's WrestleMania was a perfect storm, as Lesnar feigned WWE into believing he would jump ship to UFC in order to get a better deal. He had also essentially turned himself babyface with the Suplex City gimmick, likely eyeing the top babyface spot for himself. Vince probably thought 'holy shit, I can't beat the guy now', which allowed Seth Rollins to backdoor his way into the title. I don't think Rollins winning at WM was as much a sign of Vince losing faith in Reigns, more wanting to protect Lesnar due to his hefty price tag, but an unwillingness to go all the way with Lesnar due to his part-time status.

[Slasher]

Nothing about Lesnar would suggest that he wants to be the top babyface. For one thing, he knows being the top babyface means more dates he has to deal with and Brock loves his current arrangement of being a special attraction and picking his spots to appear all the while making a boatload of money per date then going home to fuck Sable and shoot gophers.

[sek69]

 

It's a total mess for sure, but I do think everything is accountable without a conspiracy theory. Then again, I always think that on every single issue. On the whole, I think conspiracy theories give people too much credit. The truth is that life isn't as planned out as all that. Most people are just getting by doing their jobs, etc.

 

 

Absolutely subscribe to this. We give people much too much credit for things that just occur in the course of folks going about their business and looking out for themselves.

 

 

 

Keep in mind Hunter's the guy who made Montreal happen by getting in Shawn's ear about not jobbing to a guy leaving the company after Vince already brokered an agreement to keep everyone happy. To say it's out of the question he could be doing some more Machiavellian shit today is kind of silly.

[stomperspc]

 

 

The theory, by the way, isn't that *Vince* is deliberately sabotaging him. Nothing of the sort. It's that there is a power struggle between HHH and Kevin Dunn over the future of the company. HHH only wants his pet projects to get over, and Dunn is doing what he can to take them down a notch on the other side, because HHH and Stephanie have made clear that as soon as they get the chance, Dunn is out the door. The more Dunn can make HHH's ideas and judgment of talent seem questionable to Vince, the longer he can put off that happening [. . . ]

 

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

My main objection to the theory still stands. If Reigns is a pawn in a tug-of-war between Vince/Kevin Dunn and Triple H, then I would expect his misuse to look significantly different than the misuse of most WWE wrestlers. To me, it does not. That is what I am interested in reading. What about this Reigns’ situation leads people to believe that it must be the result of a major power struggle rather than WWE’s usual incompetence?

 

My personal opinion is that people are looking for a colorful explanation as to how WWE so badly mismanaged the push of a wrestler we have been told they want to push. Rather than accepting that it is equals parts the usual incompetent booking combined with Triple H’s usual desire to make himself look good at all costs, this theory has been concocted to explain it. I don’t see how the evidence points to that motive. To me, all the evidence points to is that the WWE has badly mismanaged Reigns and Triple H is doing his usual routine of making another wrestler look bad at his own expense. I am struggling from tying Reigns’ mismanagement into that motive, particularly when this promotion has been known to bungle pushes in similar fashions for less nefarious reasons.

 

 

I think the key difference between this and usual WWE incompetence is that we don't usually hear that they are trying to push guys and are high on them when they are using them horribly. In most cases, we find out Vince sees nothing in them and they are used in a scatterbrained way. That's the difference between what is happening with Reigns and how someone like Cesaro was used poorly.

 

 

I definitely agree that Reigns' situation is different then the situations of Cesaro and other similar guys for the reason you provided. However, Vince/WWE definitely see (or at one time saw) something in Orton, Rollins, Sheamus, ect. Yet even while Vince/WWE viewed those guys favorably, they were still subject to significant bad booking. Not every wrestler may have been mishandled as poorly as Reigns currently is, but that doesn't necessarily indicate that there is some big conspiracy going on with Reigns that wasn't with the others. You could even add Cena to that group to an extent like I mentioned earlier. He is a their only star and acknowledged as such, but they have still used him in some ultra-confusing and counterproductive ways throughout the years.

[joeg]

It kind of reminds me of Luger and Scott Steiner and how they never really reached main event level when I was kid. They got monster pushes and then stuff just got in the way and they never really won the matches they needed to win to get over or certain people made them look bad in certain matches which hurt their push. And they never ended up drawing the money they were capable of.

[fakeplastictrees]

WWE is very self-aware. I think someone pitched the idea of what if the Rock and Daniel Bryan angles were combined. Surely the outcome would produce someone twice as over. WWE is doing both angles (that developed organically) at the same time and its failing and I believe that is by design. I truly believe that one or multiple people are sitting in Titan Towers and seeing the apathy on TV and hearing the boos and believing that this is all Act I in a V Act play. I honestly believe lots of people in WWE see everything going according to plan and no adjustments needed.

[joeg]

I've been thinking for awhile now, wouldn't the best thing for Reigns at this point be to win the title and turn heel for awhile? Feud with Brock and/or Cena as a heel champ? Then come back as a face feuding with a mid card heel like Owens before going back into the title picture as a baby face 18 months now? Thats pretty much how the Rock got over right?

[Death From Above]

I would put odds right around 50-50 that "those around Vince" convince him before Wrestlemania that Reigns is a lost cause even though they've tried so hard to build him up, and that HHH should hold the title until he can drop it to the returning Seth Rollins -- a guy guaranteed to be a massive babyface when he returns that Vince will never completely fall in love with because he's not freakishly huge.

 

At this point I feel Rollins coming back is the best opportunity to salvage Roman, by doing a double turn where Rollins ends up face and Roman heel.

[Exposer]

I want to pop in say that I don't think WWE is all that incompetent. I think they know exactly what they're doing most of the time. They made a lot of money in 2015. I think a lot of people don't want to believe the political hit theory because "LOL WRESTLING CONSPIRACY THEORIES" but it's more than that. I've never thought this theory was far fetched at all. Plus, one could also say the same for the incompetence stuff with "LOL DAY DONT KNOW WHAT DARE DOING. DARE INCOMPETENT." People in wrestling are smarter than we think.