Reactions to the Honorable Mention List, Part 3

[Jmare007]

16 down, not bad. I think it will to 25 or so before the top 100.

 

Guesses for the weekend:

 

Taker

El Generico

KENTA

Owen Hart

Fuchi ( )

 

Really interested in how high Rock can get and how many ballots had him. He was my #97

[mprice]

That Necro Butcher picture just made my night!

[Luchaundead]

I cannot wait to find out who's the first wrestler to be officially better than HHH

[DR Ackermann]

 

The more I think about it the more I'm really disappointed Bruno didn't crack the top 100. Fuck it, I should've pulled a Jack Webb and slotted him at number 1 and maybe that would've put him over the top.

 

And Fredo, er I mean Parv, you broke his heart

The great atrocity is Okada finishing higher than Bruno. A real low point.

That's a very unique viewpoint. Personally I don't care if one guy who bores me does better than some other guy who bores me.

 

Edit: I read Bruno as Brody. Forget what I said. The idea of some huge Brody fan despising Okada intrigued me.

[El Dragon]

Sad to report I lost my first top 50 with Satomura.

 

Also, as I previously stated, had Trips at 88. Sp yeah.

 

Personally, The Rock potentially making the top 100 to me is easily the most curious. Not a long career, not a particularly large number of great matches.

 

Also, I'm gonna get a high vote some day.

[pol]

I guess it's a little late to complain about this, but it seems odd to me to have close to 2 years of research and discussion, then allow non-members to waltz in with their lists last minute. I wonder how much that influenced the results?

 

It would be interesting to see the list made up only of PWO members' ballots after the main list has been fully released, at least.

[El-P]

I guess it's a little late to complain about this, but it seems odd to me to have close to 2 years of research and discussion, then allow non-members to waltz in with their lists last minute. I wonder how much that influenced the results?

 

Yeah, me too. Especially when you see most of the so-called "niche" worker taking a dive compared to 2006, when Hogan and The Rock haven't showed up yet. Makes you wonder a bit.

[Ricky Jackson]

Don't worry, I'm sure all the "right" names will make the top 50 or so

[MoS]

So, how will we decide whose ballots should be included in the "PWO-only" selection? For example, I don't post often, but I have been a member for 3 years now, have participated in discussions, and would like to think that I have done my research with due diligence.

 

This is not an infomercial for myself; I know I am not even close to being one of the most knowledgeable fans here. I am saying this just to point out that a lot of the anonymous voters might be people who have lurked around these forums a lot, and have also used GWE as a spring pad to increase their knowledge and vieweing of different styles of wrestling. Of course there will be some who've made a list of just their favourite people and submitted strategic votes, but that was always going to be the case.

[mprice]

Still have 73 people left this way. Kinda surprised by that actually.

[shoe]

With Sting still being out there, and Luger dropping. Does this list trump all the polls over the years of who is better Sting or Luger. I believe the last poll was won by Luger. LOL

[El-P]

Don't worry, I'm sure all the "right" names will make the top 50 or so

 

Some "right" names have dropped off already.

[Danish Dynamite]

 

 

But I have one big compliment for him! He's responsible for Motörhead getting a shitload of new fans!!!! ... Actually he maybe deserved a top 100 spot just for cashflowing Lemmy... Shit. I take all my critique of him back!!!! All hail the King of Kings!!!

This X 1000.

 

I have been a Motorhead fan my entire life. When I saw the documentary "Lemmy" I realized that Trips was as big a fan as I. And Trips did a ton for Lemmy and Motorhead. And Lemmy loved Trips. And with apologies to Austin Aries, Lemmy was the Greatest Person Who Ever Lived. So if Triple H loved Motorhead, and Lemmy loved Trips, there is no possible way Trips can be all bad. Lemmy really was one of the most real, authentic people ever. Seeing Lemmy and Trips talk about each other in various interviews, and seeing Trips give his eulogy at Lemmy's funeral made me like Trips a lot more as a human being.

 

Does that mean Trips deserved to be in the Top 100? No. But it was interesting to me.

 

And if you don't like Motorhead and you don't understand Lemmy? Well, I don't mean to be judgmental, but you deserve to get some sort of open sores all over your body which continue to worsen until you eventually expire in agony. And your last words should be "I was wrong about Lemmy. Please play "Killed By Death" at my funeral."

 

There, I said it.

Yup. You said it!

[Danish Dynamite]

I just have to say how much I love that Grimmas outed ALL of the HHH voters. Well played.

I was hoping someone popped up there who had been bashing him :-)

[Danish Dynamite]

I can't believe Andre is still there. Really puzzling to me. I'm old enough to have seen him live and he isn't a top 100 guy or even top 150 guy. Sure he had an awe to him, i just don't like him much past that anymore. I know we were only supposed to judge guys on footage, but I can't erase what I saw.

But when did you see him live? Against Warrior in wwf? In the 70's? In Japan? At Wrestlemania III? I saw Hogan in 93. Big time presence. Lousy work. Won't judge his 82-91 on that.

 

EDIT: Since I'm not that big on Hulk, maybe my point is better by saying that Tito wrestled The Predator and Duggan yelled a lot against somebody on the same card. I'd place them both about #850 if I was to go by that memory :-)

[Danish Dynamite]

 

 

 

This whole process has been arguing over opinion so I don't get the idea that its out of line to question the opinion that Bigelow is one of the best big men ever. What is the evidence to back it up? Where are the great Bam Bam matches? What did he do better than the big men who ranked below him other than do moves off the top rope? I mean I really like Bam Bam in his first year when he was in Memphis but that was really the best run of his career and the only way I could understand his ranking is if he stayed that good his whole career. But he didnt.

A few runs on national TV for both major promotions?

Yea but Tenta had that too and I dont see a wide gulf between him and Bigelow except that Tenta doesnt have the awesome Memphis run. Now if we were ranking best tattoos in wrestling or best wrestler cameos in movies I could see Bam Bam doing real well there.

Bam Bam did better cartwheels! ... As I kid I was pretty impressed by Bigelow's agility for his size. Later I've seen others do about the same. I like Bam Bam a good bit still, and think he could have been a good draw in wwf if he'd been used right / played his cards right during his 87-88 run. He was getting way over. But a big man used as high flying underdog will only get you so far. And one of the reasons Andre, Brody, Hansen and other "fed-hoppers", as I see them called, did well when moving around territories and not staying long was the larger than life aura and booking that made them unbeatable and feared monsters. With kayfabe eyes (which DOES matter in terms of story, connection with the average fan and ticket sales) Bigelow lost too often and was booked too weak. His flame-tatooed skull looked impressive as hell, but to casual fans that story has to be backed up by dominance in the ring. ... Based solely on his work I do like him though. Outside of my top 100, and possibly not a top 10 big man (depending on what constitutes a big man... 300 pound plus? He's not on. "Only" a big, fat gut? Maybe...)

[Stiva]

Surprised Sean Waltman hasn't dropped yet. I hope he cracks Top 100.

[Danish Dynamite]

Dear goodhelmet. We hope your funeral is not imminent. But we are pleased about your first song selection for the event. Might we suggest adding Metallica's Ride the Lightning and a bit of King Diamond? And would you prefer to be carried out to Nick Cave's The Weeping Song or Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries?

[Danish Dynamite]

A lot seem to have a good chunck of guys left. Who's your highest drop so far? I have to double check, but think mine's still Orton Jr. at #57. That will probably change today though...

[pol]

So, how will we decide whose ballots should be included in the "PWO-only" selection? For example, I don't post often, but I have been a member for 3 years now, have participated in discussions, and would like to think that I have done my research with due diligence.

 

This is not an infomercial for myself; I know I am not even close to being one of the most knowledgeable fans here. I am saying this just to point out that a lot of the anonymous voters might be people who have lurked around these forums a lot, and have also used GWE as a spring pad to increase their knowledge and vieweing of different styles of wrestling. Of course there will be some who've made a list of just their favourite people and submitted strategic votes, but that was always going to be the case.

 

I have no doubt a list without anonymous votes would exclude some people who have put serious effort into research. But it would be interesting to see the alternate perspective.

[ohtani's jacket]

I guess I'm not surprised that I was the high vote on Johnny Saint. I think in some ways, the pendulum has swung too far the other way. Other WoS workers have come across looking great and have been fun discoveries, but I think Saint deserves credit for being tremendously influential (moreso than any other WoS worker with the possible exception of Regal) and being, in my opinion, one of the best ever at working a face vs. face match. It's not a match style that is done super often, but Saint is one of the only people who I think is able to work that match and keep it interesting without one of the people playing de facto heel, which always comes across as insincere to me. I like his schtick and I think due to his size, him eating up lesser competitors on the mat has never bothered me in the way bigger guys bullying opponents can.

 

As an aside, can Grimmas or somebody say: Is Saint the highest ranked person without a top 25 vote? That feels noteworthy for some reason.

 

The only WoS workers who will rank ahead of him are Grey and Breaks so I wouldn't say the pendulum has swung that far. Face vs. face was a staple of WoS and occurred far more regularly than in any other type of wrestling. Walton had that line he'd always use for the face vs. face contests: "a pure wrestling contest for the grapple fans." De facto heel stuff generally happened in the halls, though occasionally it made its way on to TV such as in the Roberts vs. Bridges feud. Most of the time if the face acted like a de facto heel in a face vs. face match it was the first sign of a heel turn.

 

Was Saint better at working face vs. face bouts than other WoS guys? The problem for me is Grey. There isn't a single thing that Saint does well that Grey doesn't do better, and that includes face vs. face matches. I get why people like Saint -- I like a lot of Saint stuff myself -- but Johnny Saint matches are always about Johnny Saint. They're always about his escape holds and the tricks he does in the ring. They're about dressing and undressing holds, the flash of his smile and Walton gushing all over him. If you look at match listings and all the Grey matches we have on tape. and you go through all the names, I guarantee you that for each name that is one of the best matches that worker had on tape. Maybe that's because Grey didn't have as much personality as Saint, but if you line up all the Saint face vs. face bouts on tape and switch Saint for Grey there are very few matches that wouldn't be improved. I've seen some pretty great Saint vs. face matches vs. Grey. Faulkner, Kaye & Gilmour and Brookside, but against Joyce, Martinelli, Jowett, Hassouni, McGrath, and so on, the standard is far below Grey. Maybe it's because he didn't have a huge personality and wasn't overbearing, but he still managed to be Steve Grey from Peckham. I think he was just one of a kind. Maybe Ricky Steamboat to Saint's Flair?

[Dylan Waco]

Rest well Brother Blackwell. You climbed to great heights...and then fell off of them.

[JerryvonKramer]

Blackwell my 20th down

[Danish Dynamite]

I also lost one with Blackwell. He came closer to the Final 100 than I thought. Good job, though I obviously wanted him a bit higher.

[Grimmas]

Losing Blackwell and Morgan is not a great way to start the morning.