Matt D Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 It's better to have less tools and know how to use what you got to have mediocre matches than have more tools and use them the wrong fucking way to ruin matches. HHH knows how to use the tools he has to have bloated, terrible matches. I still think that's better than Angle occasionally lucking into something that doesn't completely suck while using his tools to piss all over things that have every reason to be really good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Hey, good showing for Piper. Anyone who knocks him can't do so without seeing his Portland run. But that's not the entirety of his case. So, the entire Portland run was great enough to counter 20 years of supbar in-ring work ? I really have a hard time believing that. Anyway, Piper getting in feels like a post-death tribute a la Dusty at this point. None of these guys (throw in Hogan) were that interesting from bell to bell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Undertaker over Toyota feels disappointing, even though she isn't exactly the most lauded Joshi worker anymore. I happen to love her style, so exciting to watch if you don't dissect it too much, very few matches have been as thrilling to me as Dream Rush or the 22/10/1994 match with Inoue. She has been involved in three of the greatest tag matches of all time. Roddy Piper beating her feels a bit of a stretch as well, but I haven't seen much of him outside his WWF work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I haven't jumped into the Piper renaissance with two feet, despite having watched his Portland stuff. He was remarkably over, but I'm still not sure I've seen a ton of great wrestling performances from him, even in the land of Don Owen. The Valentine match endures as an incredible showing, and perhaps if I saw more of his Mid-Atlantic stuff, I'd turn the corner more decisively? I don't know. He was also pretty bad in his last WCW run--not just in the ring but as a guy who became tone deaf about how the crowd saw him. That doesn't matter too much, but it didn't leave a good taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danish Dynamite Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Tanahashi: I had him. Seems a fair rating I think. Toyota: I look away in shame. I didn't get around to seeing enough joshi at all. I have two. They haven't come up yet. But from the little I've seen of Toyota, I'm pretty sure she'd make it on my list in the future. Undertaker: Didn't have, but I'm not as down on him as some here. I like plenty of his stuff in a guilty pleasure sort of way. But that's obviously also part of why I didn't have him on this particular list... Piper: Noooooo.... too soon!!!! ... Wait... I had him at the excact same spot... Ricky Jackson, KrisZ and others have made excellent cases for him, and I completely second them. The only reason I'm a little miffed is because of some of the names still to come. But oh well, #83 for the rowdy one is actually much higher than I'd expected, so good going Mr. Toombs. I'm down 31. So have 69 left for the last 82. 13 left I didn't rank. Damn you, Kurt Angle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 It's better to have less tools and know how to use what you got to have mediocre matches than have more tools and use them the wrong fucking way to ruin matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 It's better to have less tools and know how to use what you got to have mediocre matches than have more tools and use them the wrong fucking way to ruin matches. We're comparing two of the absolute worst wrestlers of the 21th century. You got to dig deep to compare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 HHH knows enough about wrestling to have the Bryan match. Angle would have fucked that up something fierce. Which makes it even more tragic that he knows better but still has shit matches most of the time anyway. That makes him worse in my eyes. At least Angle is doing what his fans want from him. I don't think Angle keeps the fans in mind. I think he just does the only thing he knows how to do. He's got one gear and it's "moron." HHH has one gear... asshole. Absolutely, and we're heel fans. We'll take self-obsessed asshole over idiot with really great athleticism anyday. We'd just take 500 other people over either of them first. Who is we? I'll take Angle everyday of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I'm gonna stop my Taker bashing now. I promise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted April 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Any conclusion drawn that has Angle over Taker has something wrong with it's process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Some of Parv's posts about Undertaker have been pretty funny but the funniest part is that Undertaker was just a few spots away from making his list despite all the shit talking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 When the fuck did Taker ever moonsault off a cage?? Some of Parv's posts about Undertaker have been pretty funny but the funniest part is that Undertaker was just a few spots away from making his list despite all the shit talking. And LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 One fix to BIGLAV I should have made is a special negative category where I get to stick minus points on people for various things. Someone like Taker would end up on a negative overall score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElHijodeGorgeousGeorge Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 This list proves that wrestling is so opinion based and that there is no "right" way to look at it. That's where the intrigue comes from me because you'll have your workrate fans that absolutely can't stand anyone that isn't a great worker and of course the character fans. I will say I was absolutely shocked to see the active competitors that are on the list, mainly Zayn and Nakamura but that's the beauty of the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetlag Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Thinking about whether I'd rather watch Taker lumbering around, throwing shitty punches and getting his spots in or Angle doing count along germans and restholds, I've decided I'd rather stick a nail into my throat than continue thinking about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Any conclusion drawn that has Angle over Taker has something wrong with it's process. Not true. Kurt Angle gets far too much abuse, probably due to the unrealistically salivating praise he receives in most other corners of the IWC. Admittedly I have seen no more than 10 Kurt Angle matches since 2006, but before that he was fairly consistent in putting out good, exciting matches that were nonetheless significantly flawed. Undertaker on the other hand has been part of some of the worst matches and angles in company history. If you put Undertaker in a ten minute television match without any gimmicks or garbage, there is a good chance he will stink the place out. Angle is far more likely to have an intense, enjoyable sprint. Very versatile worker as well, meshed well with different types of opponent. Don't think Taker has ever had a match as tight and well worked as Angle vs Mysterio, Summerslam 2002. Still, El Generico made the top hundred and Chris Hero wasn't far off, so can't take it too seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I'd watch any 1991 Undertaker match over any Angle match ever, even the 2-4 good ones. But then, I really kind of like 1991 Undertaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentin Skinner Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Great showing for Zayn, way better than I expected. I'll come clean as one of the Zayn high voters.The reason I did vote him so high and over guys like Hero and Cesaro is because I don't think they have resume of being one of the best guys in whatever role they played. I think early Hero was a good babyface and right now he's great as the "bully" in his matches, but I think Zayn's work as a consummate underdog babyface outweighs that. Hero is just now finding the role he's made for, while I think Zayn has had it figured out for years. Cesaro doesn't have any particular alignment and that hurt him a bit because I think he's good at playing both, but I can't think of any outstanding heel or babyface performances he's had. Great in-ring without the role execution to really bring him up. The only indie guy I feel like could play a role as well as Zayn played babyface is CM Punk as a heel. In addition, I also prefer Zayn's tag work with Owens over what Cesaro and Hero did together so that was another factor.I put him in the conversation with guys like Kobashi, All Japan era Terry Funk, Hennig, Steamboat, Morton, Martel, HBK (yes, I know) as guys who take a compelling beating, have great fire, and are top tier at garnering sympathy. He endears himself to fans in a way a lot of guys can't. The fact that for most of his career he was able to be so emotive under a mask, not talking, and working under what could be considered a comedy gimmick is extremely impressive to me. Then he takes the mask off and somehow gets even better at it.He's also someone I think has shined in every single promotion he's been in. ROH, PWG, CHIKARA, DDT, wXw, EVOLVE, WWE, he has stand out matches in all these places and has had a deceptively long run as a very good worker. He's better in a feud or "series" setting than I think people give him credit for. I look to the feuds with Owens, Ibushi, Cesaro, and The Briscoes as proof of that. If I'm doing this list again in 10 years, Zayn could possibly climb even higher and so could Cesaro or Hero, maybe to the point of leap frogging him (especially because I think as they stand right now, Hero and Cesaro are better than him). Just right now I feel like his resume is a bit better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Kurt Angle was my favourite wrestler during his "It's True" run up to and including 2001. Looking back some of the work doesn't hold up, but when he was the milk-drinking heel rather than Mr. Intensity, some of the work is still mechanically leagues above a lot of other guys. The shame with Angle is the wasted potential, here's an Olympic Gold medalist, compared widely to Jack Brisco and ... well, he never got close to being Jack Brisco. That's what it is with him, not that he was worse than actually crap wrestlers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 The best role for Kurt Angle for me was that brief run circa 2006 where he just started running through everyone in glorified squash matches. Almost playing the role Brock Lesnar does now, just suplexing the fuck out of everyone, full of intensity and sold as an unstoppable machine. Bloody, emotional, adrenaline fueled Kurt Angle at Summerslam 2001 is one of the best babyface performances of all time, also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 He regressed and became worse than crap wrestlers. He was actively bad when others were just passively bad. One is far more offensive than the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert S Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 The funny thing regarding all the Angle and Taker "bashing" is that they both had one of their best matches against each other (or at least that was what I remember from ten years ago). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I'm no Undertaker supporter but he got a good match out of Ultimate Warrior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Warrior was pretty good at following directions. The only guy I can think of that's talented in the least who couldn't get a pretty good match out of Warrior at least once was Dibiase. (But I like the Andre/Warrior WON WMOTY match too, so hey). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danish Dynamite Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I'm no Undertaker supporter but he got a good match out of Ultimate Warrior. When? I'd love to see that :-) I'm not a basher of either. At all. But the body bag matches between them were... awful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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