Joey Styles has been released

[hammerva]

Joey Styles was still stuck in that ECW/Attitude Era style of announcing. And I guarantee you that if he did that joke in ECW or one of the hardcore company likes CZW or IWA Mid South that comment wouldn't have caused any issues because those companies is appealing to men who like blood and an edgy style. Believe me if this was WWF in 1999-2002 there would have been 2 or 3 pussy jokes on RAW tonight because that is what Vince and Kevin Dunn thought would get over.

 

Even if you took away the fact that he deliberately disobeyed him so he can gloat about guy winning the election, Gabe is trying to appeal to ALL wrestling fans and whether people want to admit it there is a growing fan population of women. If you ignore the comment and let Styles continue like nothing happened you will have plenty of explaining to do

[BrianB]

 

That argument would work better if 99% of the anti PC crowd wasn't just angry they can't be racist/sexist/whatever-ist without any consequences.

I don't think this is true. Most people want common sense to prevail rather than hysteria. And to be able to have a bit of a laugh once in a while. (Entirely separate from specifics of Styles case, which I don't care about)

 

So Heenan nor Ventura wouldn't fly today and so would get fired as soon as they made a taco joke about Santana. That's progress? Reckon Tito would have a bad word to say about either of them? Did any Mexicans suffer? We'd have been denied a lot of great moments and for what? No one gave a shit. Do you give a shit now? Just harmless little gags is all they were.

 

I'm not seeing things clearly, I guess, because my child mind in its formative years was polluted by Bugs Bunny and his hate speech. Ban that sick filth! Foghorn Leghorn and Pepe le Pew were misogynists. Elmer Fudd never once stopped to check his privilege.

 

No, what we want is Michael Cole sitting next to a neutered robot version of Jerry Lawler ... forever.

 

 

Heenan and Jesse are heel color guys. IMO, that gives them way more latitude to say offensive things, especially since the heel gets his comeuppance.

[stro]

Again, the punch line isn't about sexual assault. The punch line is calling someone a pussy. The Trump sexual assault part was the set up. Not that that makes it better or okay, but shit, at least learn your joke structure before you start throwing out the terms. I find it curious that people aren't upset about the actual punchline, where Joey used what most would consider an offensive gendered insult with the intention of demeaning another's sexuality. Toxic masculinity, as it were. It's almost like people stopped watching after the set up.

[Migs]

Again, the punch line isn't about sexual assault. The punch line is calling someone a pussy. The Trump sexual assault part was the set up. Not that that makes it better or okay, but shit, at least learn your joke structure before you start throwing out the terms. I find it curious that people aren't upset about the actual punchline, where Joey used what most would consider an offensive gendered insult with the intention of demeaning another's sexuality. Toxic masculinity, as it were. It's almost like people stopped watching after the set up.

 

I would argue they're two separate jokes. Strictly speaking, a joke setup is factual, and the punchline is the embellishment - the laugh line. The setup is "Joanna, you look lovely tonight." The line about Trump grabbing pussy is the punch line to that setup, and then there's an attempt at a second punch line by turning the word on Hathaway.

[stro]

So you think calling Hathaway pussy was a tag instead of the punch line? The entire first part is a set up to call Hathaway a pussy. The "Trump would" part wasn't a joke or a punch line at all. It was barely even a set up, but it was certainly closer to a set up in structure than punch line.

[BrianB]

 

Again, the punch line isn't about sexual assault. The punch line is calling someone a pussy. The Trump sexual assault part was the set up. Not that that makes it better or okay, but shit, at least learn your joke structure before you start throwing out the terms. I find it curious that people aren't upset about the actual punchline, where Joey used what most would consider an offensive gendered insult with the intention of demeaning another's sexuality. Toxic masculinity, as it were. It's almost like people stopped watching after the set up.

 

I would argue they're two separate jokes. Strictly speaking, a joke setup is factual, and the punchline is the embellishment - the laugh line. The setup is "Joanna, you look lovely tonight." The line about Trump grabbing pussy is the punch line to that setup, and then there's an attempt at a second punch line by turning the word on Hathaway.

 

 

This is how I saw it as well. I personally don't care about the second joke. The ham-fisted transition there is the issue, and Styles hit almost all the snags he could along the way.

[BrianB]

 

 

So you think calling Hathaway pussy was a tag instead of the punch line? The entire first part is a set up to call Hathaway a pussy. The "Trump would" part wasn't a joke or a punch line at all. It was barely even a set up, but it was certainly closer to a set up in structure than punch line.

 

What's a tag except one or more additional punchlines? Styles calling Hathaway a pussy is the tag/punchline to the initial set-up Hathaway throws at him. The Trump would is it's own joke/punchline in the middle that functions as transitioning to the punchline that Hathaway is a pussy.

 

But the "Trump would" thing was clearly a punchline. Syles starts talking about how he isn't supposed to get political, but he's got a live mic, don't tell him what to do, then he seemingly moves to complimenting the ring announcer. Except, *surprise* it's not misdirection or him moving on, it was his set-up for making a comment about how she's hot enough to where somebody would sexually assault her by grabbing her pussy, and because he wants to flaunt orders he's going to shoehorn in Donald Trump so his comments are loosely "political". That's it's own punchline.

[bradhindsight]

The piece I'm not connecting with is something both Mike Johnson and Joeg (earlier in this thread) have noted: that Dave Chapelle did the same thing on SNL and no one is chastising him.

 

Chapelle told a made-up anecdote about a housekeeper at Trump's hotel - a fictional joke to play off his comment. He didn't surprise a cast member by saying the same to her, or insinuating sexual assault.

[fxnj]

Saying it was a line about grabbing women by the pussy that just so happened to mention Donald Trump is a perfectly acceptable interpretation if you take the comment completely out of context by ignoring the massive media frenzy last month over Trump being recorded saying that he can do exactly that. To use a bit of paraphrasing, when Styles said "Trump would grab her by the pussy" the focus on that statement isn't on the "her" and how it's completely acceptable to grab women by the pussy (because it's obviously not acceptable). The focus is on the "Trump" and the stupid things he said were acceptable. It's a mocking remark about some locker room talk and the subsequent shitstorm, and it has no relation to actual sexual assault or sex offenders. The uproar makes it sound like he had said something akin to, "she looks good enough to get raped," and that's not true at all.

 

The argument that it's wrong for Styles to call someone a pussy as a synonym for coward or weakling is pretty out there. It's not like people don't also use "dick" as a synonym for jerks. It's entirely possible to use words invoking genitalia as an insult without meaning to denigrate either gender.

 

This situation is a textbook example of the "social justice" outrage machine. Take something out of context, interpret it in the worst way possible, and then have a field day demonizing the guy who said it. If we label Styles as a throwback to an earlier time before the regressive left taught us all how to talk in a civilized manner, he has my support I would like to see other guys work a similar gimmick.

[Bix]

locker room talk

What locker rooms do you hang out in?

[Microstatistics]

I don't get why the anti-PC crowd is getting so worked up. He was fired for disobeying instructions and for being unprofessional. It has nothing to do with the great Satan PC ruining everyone's fun. And what he said was not exactly tasteful so a backlash is justified. The fact that it wasn't even funny/clever made it worse.

[Grimmas]

Come on calling someone pussy as an insult is an issue. If you don't see that you are part of the problem.

[joeg]

I wasn't just using Chappelle. Who hasn't heard a friend, coworker, family member tell them a Trump grab em by the pussy joke in the past 3 weeks? And the best SNL joke was a little girl saying "my daddy says President Trump wants to stop and frisk my black cat" which I thought was hilarious. Reasons for Styles to be fired- he broke kayfabe and he made a political (sortof) joke when he was instructed not to. Nobody should argue that the joke was offensive. Because it wasn't. It especially wasn't offensive compared to a lot of the shit I've seen booked on Gabe Sapolsky shows in the past. Things that have been listed earlier in this thread that would qualify as hate crimes or domestic violence outside of wrestling. You can't book the some shit Gabe has booked in the 5, 10, 15, years and then come back and fire somebody for a Trump grab em by the pussy joke on the grounds of it being offensive. Shit back when CM Punk was still in ROH I dragged some friends to one of his send off shows. They did an angle with Nana that was so fucking offensive, so masoginistic that I had to apologize for bringing them to the show. If I brought people to Evolve 72, I wouldn't have to apologize for Styles' joke.

[Bix]

Whether or not certain things that happened in previous Gabe promotions were worse really has nothing to do with anything. And nobody has said that every joke about the open mic tape is unconscionable. But we're talking about a guy who thought he had the high ground because he never used the word "pussy." Styles is kind of a hack, who pretends to be clever because someone much more clever ghostwrote his material during the prime of his career. He filled his open letter with easily provable lies and irrelevant bullshit to make him seem like a Good Person. He's been behaving like sometime who knows that he barely even told a joke because he didn't actually tell any kind of classically structured joke. He also didn't do anything to skewer Trump. All he did was talk about how he thought Joanna Rose was pretty enough to sexually assault and blah blah STOKELY HATHAWAY IS A PUSSY. There was no there there. He couldn't ad lib worth a damn because his entire career was built on a lie cultivated by the far more talented Paul Heyman.

[stro]

I think Gabe's previous record of offensive angles (be it racist/misogynistic/homophobic/all of the above) and his penchant for booking terribly stupid worked shoots should always be on the table when something that creates controversy happens on one of his shows.

[JerryvonKramer]

 

Wonder how long Jesse Ventura would have lasted on the "do not disobey boss's orders" front. Either this is about the offensiveness of the comment or it isn't. If it's simply about disobeying the boss, I expect to see people go a lot easier on Michael Cole with Vince in his ear, etc. If it's about the offensiveness of the comment and that alone, call a spade a spade.

 

I think that's a false dilemma. It's possible for it to be a combination. And it's the combination that makes the firing fair enough to me. I also bristle a bit at the suggestion from some it's gotta be about offensiveness. I'm not personally offended by the joke, but it's still way out of line for what I think are clear, obvious reasons, which Bix and others have highlighted. When someone deliberately disobeys their boss, does it in a flaunting, throw it in their face for all to see way, and not only disobeys by making a political joke, but also a joke where the punchline is that someone would get sexually assaulted bcs they're attractive...that's a confluence of a lot of bad stuff in the context of "disobeying the boss." 'm not sure it matters, but the joke didn't get over either.

I'm just saying that if it was a different milder political joke no one would give a shit.

 

Also, the more people weep about not getting called pussies, the more other people will want to CALL THEM pussies. Just basic psychology. Tell a kid they can't do something and their impulse is to do it, forbidden fruit. Trump was the guy who no one was meant to vote for. Turns out lots of Americans don't really like being told what to do. So they got in the booth and did their own personal little Stone Cold moment. Basic facts.

 

I'd talked about which hills to die on before, picking and choosing battles. I've said before where all this leads. Now literally Donald Trump is the fucking president and Britain is leaving the EU. And there are still people saying "hey, don't use the word pussy" in earnest like that's the important thing going on. How about waking up and smelling the coffee and confronting exactly what that behaviour does and where it leads. I mean for fuck's sake, look at the year we've had and here people are arguing about the word "pussy". Jesus Christ, can't take it anymore.

 

Also, I want to be clear. This is not a "meltdown", I'm not losing it. I'm angry at the extent to which sensible discussion in every realm has been hijacked by SJW-ism. Make no mistake, blindly dogmatic PC policing is part of the confluence of problems I blame for the present situation. And I get angry about it because it comes from people who are meant to be on my team, meant to be clever, meant to represent, broadly speaking, the left. Get your heads out of your arses for five minutes to see what where that method of approaching the problem gets you. I'm not apologising for this post. Someone has to say it. And at the same time, fuck Joey Styles.

[WingedEagle]

I still don't see the issue here unless Styles had an ironclad contract with Evolve. Not my place to agree or disagree with Gabe & the company. Unless I'm missing something it was within their rights to fire him before, during or after this or any other show, a right he happened to exercise this past weekend.

[stro]

I don't think anyone is arguing about Gabe's right to fire Joey, are they? Seems like the one thing everyone is in agreement on is that Gabe had every right to fire Joey. The conversation is about if what Joey said was truly offensive or not, and if the joke was about sexual assault or not. My argument is that it wasn't offensive and wasn't about sexual assault, but it was tasteless and unfunny, and he definitely deserved to be fired if Gabe specifically told him not to say anything political in nature, then he made a show out of saying something political in nature, thumbing his nose directly at Gabe, a guy he had known for 20+ years for no reason other than he has no idea how to fill time without trying to be edgy. Or what counts as edgy for a 45 year old announcer who sells coins on the side, at least.

[ohtani's jacket]

 

 

Wonder how long Jesse Ventura would have lasted on the "do not disobey boss's orders" front. Either this is about the offensiveness of the comment or it isn't. If it's simply about disobeying the boss, I expect to see people go a lot easier on Michael Cole with Vince in his ear, etc. If it's about the offensiveness of the comment and that alone, call a spade a spade.

I think that's a false dilemma. It's possible for it to be a combination. And it's the combination that makes the firing fair enough to me. I also bristle a bit at the suggestion from some it's gotta be about offensiveness. I'm not personally offended by the joke, but it's still way out of line for what I think are clear, obvious reasons, which Bix and others have highlighted. When someone deliberately disobeys their boss, does it in a flaunting, throw it in their face for all to see way, and not only disobeys by making a political joke, but also a joke where the punchline is that someone would get sexually assaulted bcs they're attractive...that's a confluence of a lot of bad stuff in the context of "disobeying the boss." 'm not sure it matters, but the joke didn't get over either.

I'm just saying that if it was a different milder political joke no one would give a shit.

 

Also, the more people weep about not getting called pussies, the more other people will want to CALL THEM pussies. Just basic psychology. Tell a kid they can't do something and their impulse is to do it, forbidden fruit. Trump was the guy who no one was meant to vote for. Turns out lots of Americans don't really like being told what to do. So they got in the booth and did their own personal little Stone Cold moment. Basic facts.

 

I'd talked about which hills to die on before, picking and choosing battles. I've said before where all this leads. Now literally Donald Trump is the fucking president and Britain is leaving the EU. And there are still people saying "hey, don't use the word pussy" in earnest like that's the important thing going on. How about waking up and smelling the coffee and confronting exactly what that behaviour does and where it leads. I mean for fuck's sake, look at the year we've had and here people are arguing about the word "pussy". Jesus Christ, can't take it anymore.

 

Also, I want to be clear. This is not a "meltdown", I'm not losing it. I'm angry at the extent to which sensible discussion in every realm has been hijacked by SJW-ism. Make no mistake, blindly dogmatic PC policing is part of the confluence of problems I blame for the present situation. And I get angry about it because it comes from people who are meant to be on my team, meant to be clever, meant to represent, broadly speaking, the left. Get your heads out of your arses for five minutes to see what where that method of approaching the problem gets you. I'm not apologising for this post. Someone has to say it. And at the same time, fuck Joey Styles.

 

 

This type of thing is nothing. It's about words and their meaning. It's about definitions and usage. It's about connotations and baggage and history.

 

You wait until there's a crisis and there are lives on the line. When there's no pressure people are free to talk big but when the shit hits the fan you know what the reality is like. I always thought of myself as left leaning; always supported leftist groups. But in a time of crisis they were of no help to me. So, since then a moderate approach has seemed like the only approach to take. If you can't trust the left and you can't trust the right then you have to forge your own path.

[JerryvonKramer]

Amen bro.

[stro]

You know what I always say:

 

If good's on the left then I'm stickin' to the right

 

Wait. AC/DC, Alt-Right confirmed.

[Grimmas]

I would like everyone who thinks calling a person a pussy for being a coward to do a survey. Go to every women in your life: your friends, mother, sisters, wife, gf, etc.. and ask what they think and see how hilarious it is to call someone pussy.

[goc]

I would like everyone who thinks calling a person a pussy for being a coward to do a survey. Go to every women in your life: your friends, mother, sisters, wife, gf, etc.. and ask what they think and see how hilarious it is to call someone pussy.

I'd like you to do the same survey and ask how many times those women have called men that word to embarrass/emasculate them. If it was so offensive to every woman on the planet you'd think they wouldn't use that word themselves.

[JerryvonKramer]

 

 

 

 

This is the least important topic imaginable.

[Grimmas]

 

 

I would like everyone who thinks calling a person a pussy for being a coward to do a survey. Go to every women in your life: your friends, mother, sisters, wife, gf, etc.. and ask what they think and see how hilarious it is to call someone pussy.

I'd like you to do the same survey and ask how many times those women have called men that word to embarrass/emasculate them. If it was so offensive to every woman on the planet you'd think they wouldn't use that word themselves.

I guess we hang with completely different circles, because I don't know people who do.

 

By the way Joey wasn't fired for that and shouldn't had. It was saying someone was so attractive he would expect her to be sexually assaulted. Other companies firing him for that makes complete sense.