Strummer Posted August 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 Shane and Bryan were only on in the opening segment for less than a minute and did not appear before the live crowd. Maybe Bryan was right about not hogging airtime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 Shane and Bryan were only on in the opening segment for less than a minute and did not appear before the live crowd. Maybe Bryan was right about not hogging airtime They really haven't been on screen much after the first week or so. The promo last week with Bryan announcing the new titles was the most he'd been in front of the crowd since the draft it seems. Speaking of, I really like how it seems like whoever is writing Smackdown realized they got the short end of the draft and went "you know what, fuck it, we'll make it work". They've really made a more entertaining show and revitalized guys who were dead in the water previously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 Stan Stasiak was from Quebec but not Montreal Uh, wrong. He was from Planet Stasiak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 Kevin Owens is horrendous - nothing is believable or natural at all, from his mannerisms to his his ring work to his his promos. He also has the worst look of any WWE champion in history - unshaven face, 3/4 length shorts, baggy vest covering up his pasty torso and beer belly. If you flicked over and saw he was the champion you would not be impressed. He is an awful worker as well, has no idea how to build a match or get a crowd involved without just resorting to throwing bombs and working endless finisher trading sequences that devalue anything. Every match is worked like a parody overkill version of a ROH main event, wherever on the card he is or whoever he is facing. He is formulaic as fuck, but smarks don't seem to mind because his formula is cosplaying Puro main events and desperately trying to rouse a 'this is awesome' chant. If he really wanted to heel it up he would bully jobbers in boring squash matches and work slow main events with lots of subtle heeling and cheating. He doesn't have the skill or gimmick to be a workrate champion or the look/charisma to be a dominant man on top. It's weird, I remember everyone complaining in 2004 how limited and eventless WWE matches were, when the likes of Benoit had his moveset reduced to about four moves so he could work the monotonous, slow WWE style. Crazy how far in the other direction it has gone now. I did sort of enjoy the surrealism of Kevin Steen beating Tyler Black for the World Title on Raw. Still, on a roster where you have Roman Reigns, Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton, John Cena, Seth Rollins, Triple-H, AJ Styles and with Samoa Joe, Shinsuke Nakamura and KENTA on NXT there is zero reason to have Kevin fucking Owens and Dean Ambrose as your champions. Neither have any sort of aura or credibility - for a start they have spent the last year jobbing 50% of the time in random television matches, before you even get onto the fact they both look like shit. You stink. Seriously. Go away . I knew you had an idea of what a master race should be but I didn't realize grimey and chubby white guys didn't fit in as well, you awful zero. Can you and El P merge into being a bottle of Vichy water so Claude Reins can throw you in a trash can and lightly kick you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted August 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 LOL at Dave and Bryan trying to make sense of the Heyman/Steph segment on WOR. Great stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakeplastictrees Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 I can see why someone might think 'Finger Poke of Doom' (FPoD), but its really two different things. Even if we ignore the marco of both situations and only focus on the micro, this match was no where near FPoD for several reasons: 1. It was an actual match 2. It was a match with some good heat 3. The match didn't have a 'been there/done that' feel to it (this match has never happened in WWE prior) 4. None of the characters involved are as stale as 99 Hogan and Nash 5. The crowd loved the outcome and the outcome setups so many things 6. Its a new face as a champion and not one of the usual suspects 7. There was no meta booking to 'stick it to the internet' Should be fun going forward. Let's see if WWE gets cold feet and takes the title off of Owens in 2 months' time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 Kevin Owens is horrendous - nothing is believable or natural at all, from his mannerisms to his his ring work to his his promos. He also has the worst look of any WWE champion in history - unshaven face, 3/4 length shorts, baggy vest covering up his pasty torso and beer belly. If you flicked over and saw he was the champion you would not be impressed. He is an awful worker as well, has no idea how to build a match or get a crowd involved without just resorting to throwing bombs and working endless finisher trading sequences that devalue anything. Every match is worked like a parody overkill version of a ROH main event, wherever on the card he is or whoever he is facing. He is formulaic as fuck, but smarks don't seem to mind because his formula is cosplaying Puro main events and desperately trying to rouse a 'this is awesome' chant. If he really wanted to heel it up he would bully jobbers in boring squash matches and work slow main events with lots of subtle heeling and cheating. He doesn't have the skill or gimmick to be a workrate champion or the look/charisma to be a dominant man on top. It's weird, I remember everyone complaining in 2004 how limited and eventless WWE matches were, when the likes of Benoit had his moveset reduced to about four moves so he could work the monotonous, slow WWE style. Crazy how far in the other direction it has gone now. I did sort of enjoy the surrealism of Kevin Steen beating Tyler Black for the World Title on Raw. Still, on a roster where you have Roman Reigns, Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton, John Cena, Seth Rollins, Triple-H, AJ Styles and with Samoa Joe, Shinsuke Nakamura and KENTA on NXT there is zero reason to have Kevin fucking Owens and Dean Ambrose as your champions. Neither have any sort of aura or credibility - for a start they have spent the last year jobbing 50% of the time in random television matches, before you even get onto the fact they both look like shit. You stink. Seriously. Go away . I knew you had an idea of what a master race should be but I didn't realize grimey and chubby white guys didn't fit in as well, you awful zero. Can you and El P merge into being a bottle of Vichy water so Claude Reins can throw you in a trash can and lightly kick you? Ah, the 'don't like Kevin Owens, must be a Nazi' school of pro-wrestling criticism. A favourite for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotJayTabb Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 In all the excitement about Owens, people are overlooking how ice cold the Strowman squash was. Poor litle Americo, dressed up like a kid attending a fancy-dress party, looks absolutely terrified as Braun comesout, gets obliterated and then demasked as Strowman stands over him and laughs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 Kevin Owens is horrendous - nothing is believable or natural at all, from his mannerisms to his his ring work to his his promos. He also has the worst look of any WWE champion in history - unshaven face, 3/4 length shorts, baggy vest covering up his pasty torso and beer belly. If you flicked over and saw he was the champion you would not be impressed. He is an awful worker as well, has no idea how to build a match or get a crowd involved without just resorting to throwing bombs and working endless finisher trading sequences that devalue anything. Every match is worked like a parody overkill version of a ROH main event, wherever on the card he is or whoever he is facing. He is formulaic as fuck, but smarks don't seem to mind because his formula is cosplaying Puro main events and desperately trying to rouse a 'this is awesome' chant. If he really wanted to heel it up he would bully jobbers in boring squash matches and work slow main events with lots of subtle heeling and cheating. He doesn't have the skill or gimmick to be a workrate champion or the look/charisma to be a dominant man on top. It's weird, I remember everyone complaining in 2004 how limited and eventless WWE matches were, when the likes of Benoit had his moveset reduced to about four moves so he could work the monotonous, slow WWE style. Crazy how far in the other direction it has gone now. Post of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 Kevin Owens is horrendous - nothing is believable or natural at all, from his mannerisms to his his ring work to his his promos. He also has the worst look of any WWE champion in history - unshaven face, 3/4 length shorts, baggy vest covering up his pasty torso and beer belly. If you flicked over and saw he was the champion you would not be impressed. He is an awful worker as well, has no idea how to build a match or get a crowd involved without just resorting to throwing bombs and working endless finisher trading sequences that devalue anything. Every match is worked like a parody overkill version of a ROH main event, wherever on the card he is or whoever he is facing. He is formulaic as fuck, but smarks don't seem to mind because his formula is cosplaying Puro main events and desperately trying to rouse a 'this is awesome' chant. If he really wanted to heel it up he would bully jobbers in boring squash matches and work slow main events with lots of subtle heeling and cheating. He doesn't have the skill or gimmick to be a workrate champion or the look/charisma to be a dominant man on top. It's weird, I remember everyone complaining in 2004 how limited and eventless WWE matches were, when the likes of Benoit had his moveset reduced to about four moves so he could work the monotonous, slow WWE style. Crazy how far in the other direction it has gone now. I did sort of enjoy the surrealism of Kevin Steen beating Tyler Black for the World Title on Raw. Still, on a roster where you have Roman Reigns, Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton, John Cena, Seth Rollins, Triple-H, AJ Styles and with Samoa Joe, Shinsuke Nakamura and KENTA on NXT there is zero reason to have Kevin fucking Owens and Dean Ambrose as your champions. Neither have any sort of aura or credibility - for a start they have spent the last year jobbing 50% of the time in random television matches, before you even get onto the fact they both look like shit. You stink. Seriously. Go away . I knew you had an idea of what a master race should be but I didn't realize grimey and chubby white guys didn't fit in as well, you awful zero. Can you and El P merge into being a bottle of Vichy water so Claude Reins can throw you in a trash can and lightly kick you? Fuck me, where to even start. You are the biggest, dumbest, most bemusing WWE stan I have ever come across. Why don't we just ban criticism from these threads so every reply is just you ejaculating over whatever junk Vince serves you up this week. And if anyone does criticise the product, just throw around words like 'misogynist' or pretend that they are some vile, discriminatory bastard who 'stinks' and is an 'awful zero' who clearly dislikes the product for sinister reasons rather than the fact it is, you know, a repetitive badly booked horror show most weeks. Your opinions on WWE mean absolutely fuck all because you go into raptures about 90% of the product they serve up. Not even going to get into the irony of you throwing words like misogynist around like confetti to anyone who dares to criticize little Jonny's favorite TV show, while you spend years desperately pleasuring yourself over one of the most misogynistic, distasteful, backwards, despicable entertainment companies of all time who have made an industry out of objectifying women and running offensive angles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 I'd like to separate out the personal stuff with Johnny from the proper point that anarchistxx is making which is that the "smart fans" are just marks for high spots and don't actually understand what good wrestling is. Since they are continually hijacking the product which is leading to guys like Owens being put in the top slots while really capable workers like Roman Reigns are shitted on, the real point goes back to what we've been talking about for the past few weeks. You can't let a portion of the fanbase dictate the product, and I'm really disappointed to see Vince and co giving in as much as they are. Cart before the horse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotJayTabb Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 In fairness to Owens, by all accounts his backstage reputation is impeccable. He's one of those guys who's learning about production, asking questions about improvement and showing real interest in how things are run. I can imagine that kind of attitude really endearing him to Vince and HHH, reaching for the brass ring and all that bollocks. I actually thought the segment came across as a face turn for HHH, and by proxy Owens. Firstly because the crowd were clearly on his side all night, but also the way they let the "You deserve it" chants play out on TV. Also, they've put a video on the YouTube channel of Rollins lambasting Stephanie and Foley after the match, where he doesn't come off as a face. I can see them running with Owens as tweener-face, with Jericho turning on him eventually to cement the turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 See, I think for the past few years HHH / Vince have been working themselves almost double-thinking themselves into thinking that they still control the fans. So they'll try to put a spin on it as if Owens was meant to be cheered, or whatever. Or that it was all a work all along. What I see is a great great wrestling promoter reduced to pandering to a bunch of dicks because he's lost his legendary conviction and Triple H has a boner for wanting to be a smark hero. Hideous state of affairs. Worst in living memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 I do wish if people were going to criticize Owens, they'd leave his look out of it because talking about it only exposes how superficial the person who says it is. If you have a point to make about it KO on the merits (which that post did admittedly contain), make it but stick to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 It's a real catch 22 too, because now that smart fan culture has "gone mainstream" you are caught in a bind. Why? Because smart fans since day 1 have always secretly got off about being perpetually negative about the product. They know better. Their guy isn't being pushed. The wrong guy is champ. And yada yada since jdw was born in 1934. So what can WWE do? Even if they give them what they want, they'll find new things to moan about. Weird, sado-masochistic negative audience who pay their money without fail to consume something they pretend to be disgruntled with. Cos, what WWE really need to do is model themselves on a two-bit indie promotion like ROH circa 2005, yeah, they'd worked it all out then hadn't they. My rage at twats who have ruined the thing I love knows no bounds. Even getting to the point where I'm feeling pangs of fondness for shit that happened in 2005 or 06, hardly banner years. I think the only solution is to comp kids and ban 18-35 year old hardcores for a year. Being serious. Wrecking wrestling they are. That's YOU "wrestling Twitter". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 I don't really like it either, but you can't go back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 Re: Look. I'm just not sure. I do think a world champion needs to either A) have a certain athletic look that fans have been conditioned to or b> be clearly branded as talented in specific ways that make them overcome that from a kayfabe perspective. Rey Mysterio was not a traditional champion but his speed and agility and pinpoint accuracy were highlighted (as was his will). Daniel Bryan's skill. Were Bray Wyatt to get the belt, it could be his deviousness and mind games. But then, traditionally, guys with non traditional looks didn't often get the belts. Jerry Blackwell was the most over babyface and biggest draw for a few years in AWA. He didn't get the belt. People didn't rush to put belts on Kevin Sullivan when he was a top drawing heel. That just wasn't the role for those guys and it went against the perceived legitimacy and elements of suspension of disbelief. The issue to me here isn't A, but instead B. NXT did a much better job of presenting Steen as a unique threat. Someone said that he was Vader there, and he was. He's just another guy on the main roster. I do think, as a heel, he's much better at garnering out of ring heat than much of the roster in the PG era, and is allowed to try to do so. Him heeling on the hugely entitled full sail crowd for NXT Takeover being in Brooklyn is the sort of thing no one else on the roster would do. And there are other examples. That just doesn't transfer to the narratives of his matches well, even if he'll do little things to garner heat within those matches. The big picture isn't there from a match to match perspective. I like that he makes it about money, which, again, is something no one else has done in years. I'm almost certain Parv has absolutely no idea about the last two paragraphs, which is why his arguments on this matter come off like underdeveloped generalizations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 That meme is an excellent way to glide past what is a legitimate problem and never to properly address it. Carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 Not to take away from that post, but it feels like we are in a time where the worst label a person can have -- far worse than anything related to how they look -- is that of being Undeserving. The worst things you can be in the current WWE narrative are either to be Undeserving or Someone Who Is In Wrestling For Fame And Fortune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 Not to take away from that post, but it feels like we are in a time where the worst label a person can have -- far worse than anything related to how they look -- is that of being Undeserving. The worst things you can be in the current WWE narrative are either to be Undeserving or Someone Who Is In Wrestling For Fame And Fortune. I can't fully develop thoughts right now, but look at how thoroughly the smart fanbase loathed Greg Gagne for decades; someone who is, in fact, a really good wrestler, with lots of great matches and a history of drawing, but has a stigma of Undeserving and a rather terrible Look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 Miz triggers both of those ideals and Kevin Owens triggers neither one. This is why Miz gets real heat and Kevin Owens is liked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 Imagine a world where they hadn't have pushed Charlotte at all. Would any fans dislike her or what she be a smark hero? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 It seems like Charlotte was really loved in NXT and was met with apathy on the main roster until they turned her and brought in Ric as her corner man. I'm not sure why. Someone who followed NXT more at the time can probably explain the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 BTW, here's the Owens promo I'm thinking about. Parv, Loss, make sure to watch that since I bet you haven't seen it. https://vid.me/JTj3 Who else on the roster could do that? I mean, maybe Jericho, but he'd toss in a bunch of campy Phantom of the Opera bs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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