UFC 203: Because CM Punk is finally fighting

[goc]

I'm sure plenty of people would be have no problem accepting millions to get beat up for 2 minutes if given the opportunity. It's fair to give him credit for trying, but there are innumerable no-name fighters at small gyms who will never come close to the UFC that could have destroyed Punk. That's where the mockery comes from.

Yea this "you couldn't have done it!" talk ignores that Punk got paid a very nice sum of money. He could have easily gone the same route as every fighter starting out and fought some other guy with no fight experience as an amateur but he didn't because the UFC offered him a big sum of money to fight there instead. Give that same UFC offer to the "99.9999999% of the population" who have no experience fighting and I'm pretty sure they would also take the money to get embarrassed on a PPV.

[BigBadMick]

 

.The "Haw Haw! Fuck you Punk" shit I've seen online so comes off as a bunch of losers with nothing to offer mocking someone who actually tried something. It's terrible.

He wanted to fight. He did. Win or lose, 99.9999999% of the population can't say that. That's ballsy for someone who really isn't a natural athlete. I respect him.

And lol at the HHH reaction, a guy who probably has never been in a "real" fight in his life

what did HHH say?

[El-P]

Punk told HHH and Vince to shove it and got a nice sum of money to realize another of his dream. More power to him. What did people expect ? He's 37, was never a great athlete, has never fought before. Of course he got slaughtered. He's Takada in Pride. The only question is, did he draw ? The rest, like I said, more power to him.

[The Thread Killer]

.The "Haw Haw! Fuck you Punk" shit I've seen online so comes off as a bunch of losers with nothing to offer mocking someone who actually tried something. It's terrible.

 

I would agree with you normally, if it was just about anybody other than Punk. I would applaud anybody who had the courage to give up a high paying gig they hated, to follow their dreams. But Punk took a shortcut.

 

Punk went from one high paying gig into another one. I don't know how much he made for this fight, but I'm betting when you factor in base pay, sponsors, merchandise and PPV buys, he'll end up making a nice payday. There are countless fighters out there who deserved that chance more than him. He had no business in the UFC, and it showed tonight. This is a guy who trained his ass off, full time for a year, with an established camp - and he still got his ass kicked in under three minutes. He basically could have spent the last year sitting on his sofa watching TV and eating Potato Chips, and the result really wouldn't have been that much different. He might have lasted a minute less.

 

Granted, his name probably sold the PPV to a degree. I will be very interested to see how much, when the numbers come out. However, when it comes to using a "name" to sell a PPV, Punk was the first one to bitch when he was in WWE that guys like The Rock, and Undertaker (or part timers who weren't there day in day out) waltzed in for major paydays like Mania, over guys like him who he felt deserved it more. How is The Rock using his celebrity to cash in at Mania any different than Punk using his to cash in for the UFC? In both cases, guys who were more deserving, paid more dues and worked harder earned those spots. In fact, as a fan of both sports, I have way less of an issue with guys like The Rock coming back for Mania than I do with Punk earning a shot at the UFC. At least The Rock has experience as a wrestler. As Punk showed last night, he is no fighter.

 

I think the biggest issue is that Punk can be a bit of a douchebag. There are countless stories about him being rude and dismissive with fans and a jerk with his co-workers. Punk admitted himself in his podcast interview with Colt Cabana that he was abrasive and hard to work with at times. (I wish I had a link to the story Edge and Jericho told on Jericho's podcast about Punk being a dick to them at a house show, it was hysterical.) People like to see jerks get their asses kicked. It's human nature.

 

It takes balls to fight, I'll give him that. But really, that fight was an embarrassment for everybody involved, and I think people are going to be laughing at Punk for this for quite some time. If he really wants to bounce back, he needs to get on some semi-pro shows and fight guys at his level.

[WingedEagle]

.The "Haw Haw! Fuck you Punk" shit I've seen online so comes off as a bunch of losers with nothing to offer mocking someone who actually tried something. It's terrible.

 

You can say he tried something. Not entirely wrong. But the reason he "tried" it here is because Dana & co. saw a potential payday when absolutely nothing about his background, skills or potential suggested a remote possibility of anything more than what we got tonight. If not for his name he'd be "trying" the exact same thing on a minor league level, albeit with the exact same outcome. Not taking anything away from him as by all accounts he legitimately trained for the fight. But let's not pat him on the back for some great accomplishment either. A little perspective never hurts. One might also "try" participating in a discussion without immediately resorting to referring to those in said discussion as losers, but hey, that might also require some gym time.

[Eduardo]

The thing also is this was a joke fight treated as a serious thing by some MMA media and the UFC. Glad Joe Rogan called it for what it was at the end, but it should have been said sooner. They treated CM Punk in a more serious fashion than they did James Toney, which is absurd and funny.

Not to mention, Punk coming in as a millionaire pro wrestling star, acting like he wasn't given this privilege to jump in line, in front of thousands of actual real fighters from all over the world who struggle to make it to the UFC, and then making fun of said fighters for how little money they have in comparison to him, is a bad look.

People online trying to do all wild comparisons in either direction, like bringing up Kazushi Sakuraba main eventing PRIDE shows or acting like Punk's some normal, every day guy that reached for the stars is silly as fuck.

[Matt D]

The main issue is that Punk is a hugely unlikable ass. Why are people dancing around that and talking about gym time and stuff like that? He's sort of OUR hugely unlikable ass, but that only takes him so far.

[NotJayTabb]

Had no real feelings about Punk going into MMA, until his refusal to shake Gall's hand stating "I'm not here to shake hands, I'm here to punch faces", at which point I though it'd be hilarious for him to get his arse handed to him

[Eduardo]

The main issue is that Punk is a hugely unlikable ass. Why are people dancing around that and talking about gym time and stuff like that? He's sort of OUR hugely unlikable ass, but that only takes him so far.

 

Ha. I am a fan but I still cringe at some of the stuff I read as a teenager on CM Punk's LiveJournal in the early to mid 2000's.

[Lust Hogan]

I guess my question to the group ( And not in a sarcastic way ) is who's spot did Punk take? Gall was 2-0 and 3-0 in amateur fights. Are there specific fighters that you can point to and say that they should have been in the octagon instead of Punk? My thought is that the trade off of Punk's celebrity to the card would offset putting in a good 3-1 fighter for Gall to fight. I had no problems with Punk being there but I think going forward (And Dana White has said this now that the fight is over) Punk needs to fight on the minor leagues and gain experience if he's serious about becoming a fighter.

 

Question: If Conner McGreggor was offered a lot of money by WWE to wrestle Apollo Crews would the same complaints be there about him not paying dues wrestling in ROH, PWG, etc...?

 

I had ZERO problems with Punk calling out The Rock only because the first comeback seemed fine and since it was in Miami it made sense. The second comeback felt forced, the fans weren't calling for a rematch, it was in NYC so you already knew what the crowd pulse would be although you could argue that the market was MUCH bigger, and I feel Punk had proven his worth by that point and could have been a much bigger force for WWE if they had chosen to fully get behind him.

 

At any rate I'm glad Punk's happy and in a better frame of mind.

[Grimmas]

The hate on Punk here and the joy people had at Punk's loss is really pathetic.

 

UFC made big money, Punk worked hard and achieved a dream. Win-win.

 

You may had even a star out of Gall.

[DMJ]

I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, but I think what Johnny Sorrow might've been trying to point out is that there is a certain portion of the internet that is still "butt hurt" that CM Punk left pro-wrestling and "quit on them." These fans are so eager to enjoy his failure last night that they see it as a personal victory (schadenfreude).

 

Obviously, there are sensible people criticizing Punk too. I totally agree that Punk used his name to benefit himself and put himself in an undeserved position. I also think he has every right to and that he shouldn't necessarily be criticized for using that advantage to land himself a big money deal. I look at it this way - people complain about teachers having summers off all the time. They complain about this despite the fact that they themselves could've been teachers, that they themselves chose *not* to be teachers, even knowing, from first grade, that teachers have summers off, that this vacation time is just part of the average teacher's yearly schedule. In Punk's case, you can say he didn't "pay his dues in UFC," but he *did* pay his dues in the world of sports/entertainment and he took a route that is and was open to everyone (in fact, it's not even that rare of a route if you look back at MMA history). He earned celebrity status first through hard work as a pro-wrestler. He may have cut in line, but that's because more people wanted to see him cut in line than wanted to see some guy with no name compete.

 

If you want summers off, go back to school, get your teaching license, get your master's degree, go seek a position as a teacher. If you want to get a huge pay day for your first UFC fight, go become a major star in pro-wrestling, go become known as one of the best self-promoters in sports-entertainment, sell a ton of merchandise, you'll get your pay day.

 

If there's anything to criticize, it might be Dana White's willingness to tarnish his own league's standards by promoting what was not an evenly matched professional-level fight. To continue my analogy, don't blame teachers - blame the educational system that has maintained a 9-month school year despite an abundance of research that tells us we should have year-round school.

[Matt D]

Hopefully the guy's mid-life crisis is over and he can start transitioning his fame and personal beliefs into youth drug prevention programs or something.

[El-P]

The hate on Punk here and the joy people had at Punk's loss is really pathetic.

 

UFC made big money, Punk worked hard and achieved a dream. Win-win.

 

Word.

 

(but then again, all Punk wanted was to be a pro-wrestling star. He did it. Then all he wanted was to fight in UFC. He did it. Plus he probably fucked all the super attractive girls he came across. And he gave Vince & HHH the finger. Yeah. Haters be haters. I say more power to him.)

[Eduardo]

Why is it pathetic though?

 

I like Punk, spent years buying ROH DVD's to watch his work, and think his feud with Jeff Hardy produced probably the best promo work I've seen of anyone in the WWE in the past eight years. Not coming in as a 'hater' or whatever. People can have nuanced opinions about people, entertainers, sports, etc.

 

This was still a joke of a fight, and there are a dozen reasons to illustrate that.

[Grimmas]

Why is it pathetic though?

 

I like Punk, spent years buying ROH DVD's to watch his work, and think his feud with Jeff Hardy produced probably the best promo work I've seen of anyone in the WWE in the past eight years. Not coming in as a 'hater' or whatever. People can have nuanced opinions about people, entertainers, sports, etc.

 

This was still a joke of a fight, and there are a dozen reasons to illustrate that.

He got destroyed. Yes. He also had the time of his life. UFC made big man.

 

If UFC is happy with this, if Punk is happy with this, and the fans went nuts in the arena so they seem to be happy with this, what is the issue?

[Matt D]

I'd be happy for Tito Santana if he wanted to start an unlikely new career, let me tell you that.

[Eduardo]

There are a plenty of issues, as some that have been brought up already, along with others mentioned elsewhere regarding the athletic commission and Punk's history of injuries.

 

But I guess we are haters for not just happily going along for the ride. I guess Joe Rogan of all people is a hater too.

[Eduardo]

I'd be happy for Tito Santana if he wanted to start an unlikely new career, let me tell you that.

 

Random nice Tito Santana story. I once told a mutual friend that I wanted to talk to Tito, and literally the next day I got a phone call and on the other end it was "Hi this is Tito Santana, I heard you wanted to talk to me."

[Beast]

There's also the fact that Punk is by most accounts a raging A-hole with an overly high opinion of himself, so maybe it's harder for people to root for that type of guy, especially when he's still fairly terrible at fighting. Pulling that no handshake BS because "I'm here to fight, not shake hands" also doesn't help.

 

Good for him for achieving his dream, but this was the equivalent of a Make-A-Wish kid getting the chance to throw out a pitch at the World Series or ride shotgun in a Nascar race.

[Matt D]

I mean he did sort of achieve the american dream (give or take a lawsuit):

 

"If you work hard enough, you can be as big an asshole as you want without repercussions."

 

Good for him on that.

[Grimmas]

There are a plenty of issues, as some that have been brought up already, along with others mentioned elsewhere regarding the athletic commission and Punk's history of injuries.

 

But I guess we are haters for not just happily going along for the ride. I guess Joe Rogan of all people is a hater too.

 

The same Joe Rogan who told Punk he greatly respects him and hopes to see him fight again?

 

If the athletic commission allowed someone to fight that shouldn't, that is the athletic commission's problem. You should be ranting to them, not making fun of Punk.

 

There's also the fact that Punk is by most accounts a raging A-hole with an overly high opinion of himself, so maybe it's harder for people to root for that type of guy, especially when he's still fairly terrible at fighting. Pulling that no handshake BS because "I'm here to fight, not shake hands" also doesn't help.

 

Good for him for achieving his dream, but this was the equivalent of a Make-A-Wish kid getting the chance to throw out a pitch at the World Series or ride shotgun in a Nascar race.

He's an asshole, who cares? You don't have to root for him.

 

How is that equivalent at all? That is a beyound horrible analogy.

[Eduardo]

You're making it sound like anyone who is critiquing the circumstances relating to this fight is just doing it to be hating on Punk or whatever. It's disingenuous and dishonest.

I didn't say Rogan was hating on Punk either, at all. I was pointing out that Rogan had critiques as well and that doesn't make him a hater. People can like Punk and think this was bad, as do I. He ended the broadcast with the following (quotes from BloodyElbow):

"But it was delusional. That's my feeling. My feeling when I was watching him hit the bag, when I was watching him train, and when I was watching him hit things. It's not like he can't ever learn, but there's a journey as a martial artist, and there's a path that each martial artist [is] on. And different people are on different paths. There's a reason brown belts don't compete with white belts in jiu-jitsu tournaments. It's because it's not fair. And what we saw tonight is not fair."

And.

"If I had to give CM Punk some advice -- I hate to harp on this -- I'd say fight as an amateur," he said. "Fight people at your level. He wants to do this, he wants to challenge himself, he wants to continue -- God bless him. He's a fun guy. I like him. But this is not the way to do it."

[Grimmas]

Critiques are one thing and that is fine. My response is to these people who are essentially orgasmic at Punk losing.

[hammerva]

If Punk is serious about MMA and decide to work these smaller indie promotions to get more experience then I have all the respect for him. If this is a just a one time "bucket list" thing and he is back groveling to the WWE or going to places like ROH or Evolve then screw him because not only doesn't have respect for himself but for MMA.