Comments that don't warrant a thread - Part 4

[joeg]

On 12/2/2020 at 8:10 PM, NintendoLogic said:

Dave seems to be going largely off a 2007 NTV survey that asked the Japanese public to name the 100 most influential historical figures in history. Rikidozan came in 18th. It's like how one of his Japanese contacts in the 80s told him that Takeshi Kitano was the Johnny Carson of Japan and that's the analogy he's used ever since.

As a huge Takeshi Beat Kitano fan I think a far more accurate comparison would be Clint Eastwood. Somebody who originally became famous acting in light hearted TV shows, then  graduated to staring in serious films, then moved onto directing and producing award winning films in the later part of his career. 

[joeg]

On 12/3/2020 at 12:25 PM, Robert S said:

The whole concept of sports people being part of history books seems strange me. For one in school, about 3/4 of the time is spent on pre-1900 stuff, ergo (ignoring ancient Olympic games and stuff like chariot races and gladiator battles) there were no sports to talk about and when talking about the 20th century, there is so much stuff to talk about that I cannot see wasting a minute talking about any sports person, at least from a European perspective. Some teachers might mention Berlin 1936 or maybe even Moscow 1980, and when going over the terrorism of the 1970ies and 80ies, Munich 1972 might be mentioned as well (though I suppose in Germany and Austria, where is might be most topical, the RAF and the political unrests of the late 1960ies are much more important regarding that topic), but that is definitely not essential knowledge or stuff essential for understanding history (Berlin 1936 might work as a good example of the Nazi propaganda machine, so suppose that's the closest you get).

In America the 1936 Olympics and Jessie Owen's performance is absolutely mentioned in history classes as a source of national pride in the face the Nazi propaganda machine leading to WWII. Joe Louis knocking out Max Schmeling in 1938 may also gets a mention for the same reason. Americans like to talk about their heroes that showed up the Nazi. 

[SteveJRogers]

Nothing here on the WCW 2021 scam that made IWC Twitter ablaze for a couple of days last week!?

[MoS]

1 hour ago, SteveJRogers said:

Nothing here on the WCW 2021 scam that made IWC Twitter ablaze for a couple of days last week!?

That was legitimately hilarious. 

[SteveJRogers]

1 hour ago, MoS said:

That was legitimately hilarious. 

I’m still trying to figure out what “50% of a trademark” was supposed to “prove” right to ownership.

To be fair though, sounds like a petty thing Vince would do, if the WWE wasn’t a public company.  Especially to keep AEW from using certain registered names and concepts like “The Match Beyond” Send them to a low rent, backwater indie that is no threat to you!

[Dale Wolfe]

I don't think this will necessarily be any good but I will end up watching it anyway

https://youtu.be/-sgxAH47TsA

[MoS]

What's with Bret becoming a better promo in his retirement and old age than he was for most of his career lol

[sek69]

Bret has stated before that the whole reason he started the sunglasses gimmick with the Hart Foundation was to hide how nervous he was doing promos. It comes off as something he was never 100% comfortable with doing and amusingly seems to be something that has gotten better with age.

I wonder if his stroke played a part as well. It sounds weird, but sometimes it has effects on the personality as well. My mom was a notorious smoker for most of her life, and after she had a mini stroke it was like she never touched a cigarette in her life. 

[El-P]

Come on, Bret was an awesome promo guy in 1997.

I also love the jaded, "I know this company can't book me right for shits" 98 Bret Hart actually.

[The Thread Killer]

Yeah, I think Bret's improvement with promos can be traced back to his hiatus after Wrestlemania 12. 

After he lost the title to Shawn Michaels, Bret made it pretty clear that he was going to try his hand at acting, and from what I understand he actually took it very seriously and underwent professional training and took acting lessons.  He landed a part on the (admittedly terrible) spin-off series Lonesome Dove.  The original mini-series Lonesome Dove in 1989 was based on Larry McMurtuy's Pulitizer Prize winning novel and starred Robert Duvall and Tommy Lee Jones.  That mini-series was outstanding.  For my money, it is the best "Western" ever filmed (with Clint Eastwood's Unforgiven coming in close second.)  After the huge success of the Lonesome Dove mini-series, they did a pretty terrible sequel called "Return to Lonesome Dove" (starring Jon Voight in place of Tommy Lee Jones who wanted nothing to do with it) and that second mini-series led directly into the Lonesome Dove TV show.  The show was filmed in Canada, and was a Canadian co-production.

When Bret Hart landed a guest spot on the show, it actually made the news here in Canada.  His guest spot was actually pretty well received and he was apparently offered a full time spot in the cast of the show, but then it ended up getting cancelled.  You can see some of his scenes on YouTube, and they're not terrible.  Of course, like they do with every Pro Wrestler who lands an acting job...his first scene is replete with bodyslams and brawling...but his acting wasn't really all that bad. I've heard Bret say in interviews that if the show had stayed on the air and been a success, he might not have ended up coming back into the WWF in November 1996. I'm not sure I buy that, but Jim Ross and Bruce Prichard have both confirmed that Bret was super serious about getting the part on the Lonesome Dove TV show and was taking it very seriously.

You can pretty much chart it...as soon as Bret Hart returned in the fall of 1996, his promos were significantly improved.  I agree with @El-P in that I thought his promos after his heel turn were perfectly acceptable at worst, and they were frequently very good during the Canada vs. USA angle.  And I think can be attributed to the acting he did during his hiatus in 1996.  The whole "Bret Hart is a lousy promo" talking point pretty much dies at that point, if you ask me.  He absolutely was early in his career, but like everything else he took it seriously and worked hard to get better.

Hell, this is the man who cut the "Who are you to doubt El Dandy" promo.  That shit was gold.

[MoS]

Guys, in my defence, I agree he was a great promo in 1997. It's why I said "most of his career" and not "all of his career" lol

[ohtani's jacket]

Bret cut great promos in '94-96 as well. I'm pretty sure his rep for promos comes from his Hart Foundation days and his early singles push. 

[El-P]

Yeah, his character was not the flashiest, but his World Title reigns promos where very good for what he had to convey, his stuff with Owen was really good too. Plus, let's not forget the pile of shit he was dealt with for most of 95, there's no way you can shine working promos about Isaac Yankem or a kiss my feet match with Lawler or cut money interviews about a pirate stealing your jacket.

He certainly was hidden during the Hart Foundation days under Jim's charisma and crazy promo style.

[NintendoLogic]

When Bret came back in 2010, he was cutting some of the best promos in the company to promote his match with Vince. I don't know if it was more a case of him dramatically improving on the mic or a guy who was considered average at best when pro wrestling promos were actually good standing out simply because standards had fallen so dramatically. Also, as brother TTK noted, he had become a trained actor, so the move to a scripted format was probably to his benefit. Roddy Piper is another guy in the latter category. By the end of his career, he was usually embarrassingly bad when given a live mic and no script. But because he was an experienced actor by that point, he could knock it out of the park when called upon to deliver scripted material like in the Piper's Pit right before Survivor Series 2010.

[The Thread Killer]

36 minutes ago, ohtani's jacket said:

Bret cut great promos in '94-96 as well. I'm pretty sure his rep for promos comes from his Hart Foundation days and his early singles push. 

 

7 hours ago, MoS said:

Guys, in my defence, I agree he was a great promo in 1997. It's why I said "most of his career" and not "all of his career" lol

I hear you.

I once saw Bret Hart cut a promo that was so bad, my friends and I still quote it for fun, and this was 34 years ago.

Back in the mid-eighties, the WWF would frequently air local market promos on their syndicated shows.  Usually these promos were used to hype upcoming house shows (at Maple Leaf Gardens in my case, but obviously it varied from market to market.)  Once in a while, between the matches or before they went to commercial, they would have a wrestler or tag team do just a generic promo which was obviously meant to fill time.

One week, Ken Resnick was interviewing The Hart Foundation, minus Jimmy Hart.  As bad as Bret was cutting promos at that point, Jim Neidhart was just as bad...if not worse.  He usually just stood there stroking his goatee and cackling...and whenever the interview was over he'd scream "YEAH BABY!" and that would be it.  So during this promo, poor old Bret was doing most of the talking.  The Hart Foundation were talking about how they were the best Tag Team in the WWF and how they deserved a title shot...blah blah blah.  Ken Resnick then started naming other teams and Bret would basically claim The Hart Foundation were better.  You could tell that they obviously didn't plan this interview ahead of time.  Resnick asked about The Killer Bees, and The Islanders, and other teams like that.  The all of the sudden, he asked Bret:

"Well, what about The Machines?" (Who were still comprised of Andre and The Masked Superstar at that point.)

Bret totally froze, and you could tell that for whatever reason he wasn't expecting to be asked about The Machines.  Finally, he stuttered out a reply...

"The Machines?"

"Yes, The Machines."

*awkward pause while Bret looks like a deer caught in the headlights*

"Well...let me tell you about The Machines."

*awkward pause*

"When you're big...(long pause)...and you're stupid...(long pause)...then...(long pause)...then it doesn't matter."

End promo.

From that point on, when my friends and I were hanging out watching wrestling, every now and then one of us would turn to the other and say: "What about The Machines?"  To which the other guy would make his eyes open as wide as he could, and stutter and reply: "Well...when you're big...and...you're stupid...then...it doesn't matter." 

We still quote that to this day.

[MoS]

lol that's an amazing story. 

I don't think Bret was particularly good in 94-96. Serviceable, sure, but not good. Roddy Piper had the best promos during the build to WM 12. 

[ohtani's jacket]

 Bret was great in all his sitdown interviews from that era. The difference in his promo in ‘97 is that he had to cut live promos in front of a crowd. I’m sure he flubbed his lines a few times doing those sitdown interviews. Is it in Wrestling with Shadows where he can’t get his lines right?

[Stiva]

Bret repeatedly asking people if they “had the jam” to step against the Hart Foundation is one of my favourite wrestling related phrases. I’ve never heard it from anyone else.

[El-P]

This, and of course, The Summerslam.

[PeteF3]

I can't even tell you hard I did a mental fist pump the first time I heard Bret cut a promo hyping WCW's May PPV. Yes, as I hoped, he declared that he would be at "The Slamboree."

[El-P]

Gotta love Bret Clarke !

[MoS]

Haha tbh while I get why it's grammatically wrong, I don't blame him at all for saying "the WCW."  He had heard people say "the WWF" all his life, why wouldn't he call it "the WCW."

[NintendoLogic]

The greatest thing you'll hear this or possibly any week: the cover version of Hard Times with a Japanese vocalist that Big Bossman used in All Japan.

 

[Blehschmidt]

That's fantastic.

[MoS]

I think we already talked about it once upon a time, long long ago, so I am not making a different topic about it........ BUT 

 

This is the so-called shoot, when Brody apparently decided to go against the result and shoot on Luger - wrestlers who love Brody and who hate Luger love talking about this, cuz of course they do. But, actually watching the footage...like, that did not happen at all?!?!  At no point in time during this footage does Brody "shoot on" Luger in my opinion?!?!? If anything, this footage really puts over Luger as a tough SOB even more than a match of this nature ordinarily would have?!?! So, like, why that infamous story then?