strobogo Posted September 12, 2021 Report Share Posted September 12, 2021 Not really in US wrestling, just WWE specifically because it's a Vince hang up when someone has been billed as a cruiserweight or light heavyweight. WCW had cruiserweights mixing it up with heavyweights all the time, taking heavyweight champions in US/TV divisions to the limit and winning those titles as well. They never got top spots in WCW not because they were cruisers or juniors but because of all the old guys that wouldn't put over younger talent at all regardless of size. The creation of 205 Live gave a lot of guys paychecks they probably otherwise wouldn't have had, but also immediately a very specific perception on them that they would never be able to truly break free of from the guy in charge. This goes for all the guys in NXT that were pushed at the top of the cards but billed at 205 or under. Guys like Bryan and Balor actually got their weights bumped up to 206 once 205 Live started lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted September 12, 2021 Report Share Posted September 12, 2021 On 9/11/2021 at 8:43 AM, Coffey said: I also want to say that the loss of Dusty Rhodes should not be ignored. I know he passed away in mid 2015 but the impact he had on the people when he was around certainly can't be denied. Definitely seemed to leave a big lasting impression on a lot of the talents & several of the women that went on to prominent main roster roles. Dusty's impact was monumental for sure. Dusty would break you do down to build you back up better again. Would get the "IT" out of you. Dusty via his bluster, charm and him being a Legend could say things that others could get written for up and reported to HR. WWE is a Corporate company after all. Other coaches are and were too scared to do the same thing or be the next Dusty. Dusty passed in 2015. Even in that time culture has changed so much. Managing and instructing Generation Z/zoomers seems to bring new challenges. I've heard from several Wrestling trainers a mixture of things. On one hand, new students are very interested and earnest in trying to learn but on the other hand, they can also take genuine criticism as an attack and just shut down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted September 12, 2021 Report Share Posted September 12, 2021 Part of being a good teacher is being able to deliver criticism in a instructive way and not just a "do it right, asshole" way. By all accounts Dusty was a guy who was able to do that, and you can see in how the people who were around then speak about him shows how valuable they considered him. Of course a lot of that probably did come from the fact that he clearly gave no F's about corporate BS, as evident from the time he went off script and pie-faced Steph in mid promo on TV that one time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 Much like real life, the rich on all sides in our wrestling war are in cahoots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 MJF is pretty much always in character, and he knows that palling around with Corbin is the ultimate heel move to AEW's fanbase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 I know, I was mostly laughing at the Jersey jokes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobogo Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 Tony, Brain, Dusty at PPVs is the GOAT three man booth and I'll hear nothing to the contrary. Perfect blend of personalities, perfect chemistry, always having fun with each other, can make bad matches entertaining, can elevate good matches when things really need to be serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehschmidt Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 8 hours ago, strobogo said: Tony, Brain, Dusty at PPVs is the GOAT three man booth and I'll hear nothing to the contrary. Perfect blend of personalities, perfect chemistry, always having fun with each other, can make bad matches entertaining, can elevate good matches when things really need to be serious. I will point to the Public Enemy vs Harlem Heat match at Uncensored 1997 as the perfect example of this. More than once when I've been in a bad mood, I have put that match on, and Dusty absolutely losing his shit laughing at the garbage spots in the ring, while Heenan snidely mocks WCW and the match, while Tony tries in vain to hold the whole thing together while trying (and failing) not to laugh himself, NEVER fails to bring a smile to my face. "HE HIT HIM WIT' A COMMODE LID!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobogo Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 Truly my favorite thing about AEW is Tony getting to enjoy calling wrestling again and people realizing actually Tony Schiavone is a great at PBP AND color and always was. I really have no idea why he got so much shit in the 90s for being a terrible commentator. He might truly be the GOAT, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkdoc Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 3 hours ago, strobogo said: Truly my favorite thing about AEW is Tony getting to enjoy calling wrestling again and people realizing actually Tony Schiavone is a great at PBP AND color and always was. I really have no idea why he got so much shit in the 90s for being a terrible commentator. He might truly be the GOAT, imo. Having lived through that time it’s easy - he got really bad with the GREATEST IN THE HISTORY OF OUR SPORT stuff, the fake laughing, having to sell segments he obviously didn’t believe in, etc. Those last few years of WCW were rough and most of those viewers weren’t familiar with his previous work at all. 100% with you though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 I mean, Tony *was* bad at the end of WCW, it would have been impossible not to be with the crap he had to call and half the time Bobby was completely shitfaced next to him. He had the enjoyment of what he did beaten out of him and was just mailing it in. I still think it's the best anyone could have done in the spot he was in though. Happy Tony is my #1 favorite thing about 2021 wrestling, the sheer joy in his voice calling matches is infectious. He's perfect because old heads like us remember the JCP days with him, and to the young fans he's the excited dad who's not entirely sure what's going on but he's having the time of his life watching it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 Tony Schiavone and Michael Cole are 1A and 1B to me. I always thought Tony had the best voice for pro wrestling, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 AJ and Big E have lowkey a very wholesome friendship. She calls herself his wrestling mom cuz he debuted with her and Dolph on the main roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 LMAOOO HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 21 hours ago, KawadaSmile said: Tony Schiavone and Michael Cole are 1A and 1B to me. I always thought Tony had the best voice for pro wrestling, too. Wait, what? You think Michael Cole is not only good... but one of the best? I think that's the biggest opposite opinion from me I've ever seen on this board! Michael Cole has sucked for twenty years & is one of the all-time worst commentators to me. It's really interesting to see how varied wrestling opinions can be. One of the coolest things about it as a hobby, I reckon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, Coffey said: Wait, what? You think Michael Cole is not only good... but one of the best? I think that's the biggest opposite opinion from me I've ever seen on this board! Michael Cole has sucked for twenty years & is one of the all-time worst commentators to me. It's really interesting to see how varied wrestling opinions can be. One of the coolest things about it as a hobby, I reckon. Cole's biggest problem is him having people in his ear all the fucking time. When he is not micromanaged (e.g. those Network specials such as the UK tournament or the MYC) he is absolutely on a roll. He shares the same excitement Tony has for pro wrestling, and is doubly happy for not having to deal with bullshit through his headset. Didn't like a lot of his heel run, tho. That sucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 I did like how excited he got for John Cena's SummerSlam return. Like it genuinely shocked him & he was marking out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 I couldn't find a catch-all Talk is Jericho thread so I thought I'd just dump my thought here: Mark Henry was on recently and, as I supposed all along, he left the WWE because they didn't see him as the "executive type." I wonder what could possibly make Henry not look like an executive... Henry has enough class not to just come out and call Vince or the corporate culture he's built outright racist, but I'm guessing that thought has crossed his mind. Henry is also smart enough to know that making such an accusation would be a huge heat-seeking move and would get him blackballed from the company entirely but, again, based on what everyone has said about Henry, the mentorships and scouting he has been a part of, his work as a brand ambassador, his experience...it does raise eyebrows as to why a guy who clearly wanted to be a producer/agent/talent relations employee, checked pretty much every box for it, and was a staunch WWE/Vince supporter, was told to get lost as soon as he dared ask if maybe - just maybe - he could contribute with his knowledge and not just with his brawn. (And before we get into whether or not Mark Henry is "smart enough" to be an executive, when one of your company's vice presidents is racist ass Michael P.S Hayes, you can't tell me that Mark Henry, who comes across as plenty intelligent and knowledgeable in interviews, etc. wouldn't cut it.) Vince can talk all he wants about MLK being his hero, but I'd be curious to know how many people of color he's actually elevated into executive positions over the years. I'm not incredibly knowledgeable about everyone at the top of every department, but I'm willing to wager that the number is close to 0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 lol in what universe are Road Dogg and Johnny Ace executive material but not Mark Henry, a guy who has always had a rep of being smart and sensitive, really. A universe in which we still make a lot of pre-conceived notions about some people while celebrating Black History Month I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 Johnny Ace's executive credentials are pretty much being kept by Mrs. Baba (allegedly) and being one of a million agents in WCW. Plus every time he's given any responsibility he does shit like hire the wrong one legged guy. Mark Henry checks every box you could want in that position, his ties to community groups alone is a PR gold mine WWE just left on the table. Knowing Vince, he probably thinks Mark is a pussy because he writes poetry or some alpha male BS, on top of the other obvious reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 8 hours ago, sek69 said: Knowing Vince, he probably thinks Mark is a pussy because he writes poetry or some alpha male BS, on top of the other obvious reason. "Well goddamn, pal, he cried at the Owen Memorial Tribute Show!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted September 17, 2021 Report Share Posted September 17, 2021 I was going to share this in the DSOTR thread, because XPW, but it doesn't fit the current serious talks about the Flair incident. Somebody at another board shared that Jon Barber's XPW book, Bleeding Was Only Half the Job, has been released posthumously. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B099TL5Z3Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobholly138 Posted September 17, 2021 Report Share Posted September 17, 2021 I got in and read Barber's XPW book. It's pretty good. Worth the 10 or so bucks it costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted September 20, 2021 Report Share Posted September 20, 2021 Takuya Nomura is FINALLY the Big Japan Strong Heavyweight champion. Haven't been this happy about a wrestling result in I don't know how long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin' Brian Posted September 21, 2021 Report Share Posted September 21, 2021 Just found out Ricky Morton and Owen Hart teamed up once in WCW. That could have been an awesome tag team if Owen had stayed around longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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