Has any other top star had such a lackluster career like Orton?

[KawadaSmile]

I actually think Sheamus had one of the best matches in WWE history - or at the very least, of this era - against Daniel Bryan at Extreme Rules 2012. I really, REALLY like that match.

[DMJ]

I'm not a Sheamus superfan, but I don't think he necessarily belongs in the discussion because I don't think he can really be called a "top star" like Orton. If you do include Sheamus, then throw Del Rio's name out there too - a World Champion, a Royal Rumble winner, a PPV main eventer, but obviously a huge disappointment in terms of impact.

[rzombie1988]

Yeah I agree. Sheamus hasn't gotten that kind of push since 2013.

[Exposer]

Randy Orton is weird. I actually think he has a ton of good to great matches on his resume. The Evolution tags & IC title defenses in 2004. Benoit TV series in 05-06. A few of The Undertaker matches are really good. That awesome Rey title defense after WM 22. The Cena series in 07 & 09. 2011 is possibly his best year with great series against Punk, Christian, Henry, & Cody, & Barrett. The Kane 2012 series is shockingly good. His 2013-2014 run is great with tons of quality matches against Bryan & The Shield. I could go on & on. He's a good wrestler. I think it is worth pointing out he's never been a good draw. Mark Henry had to bring SD's ratings up in 2011 after Orton failed miserably on top there in the spring & summer. There's no evidence to suggest he's a great house show draw. Randy's worst tendencies have to be laziness & lack of motivation. Large portions of 09-10 he seemed to not give a fuck. His 2015 run had some down times. When he came back from the last supsension in 2012 it took him awhile to get back into things. This last year has been hit or miss. I really think it's motivation with him.

[The Chief]

Here's a thought, what does Randy Orton look like right now anywhere outside WWE? What does he do outside of WWE agents and structure? He's spent his entire career in their system.

 

Can anyone point to examples of Randy ad-libbing something?

[DMJ]

I think he ad-libbed calling Kofi stupid for a mistimed RKO that one time.

[anarchistxx]

I personally think he has just been coasting for years, maybe since 2009. Earning good money, getting by on the minimum possible, remaining over through his name, image, finisher. He seems to have no passion for the business anymore. And he has definetely been exposed by the sheer amount of television WWE have, especially with his singles matches being so homogenous and his spots so repetetive. Everything about him has been stagnant and uncreative for years - you can see that from the spot where someone dives off the rope and he hits them with the RKO. Genuinely huge reaction the first time...so just goes back to it again and again.

 

Whether he has had a lacklustre career is harder to define. There seemed two points where he could be absolutely massive. 2004, with his initial push and Mick Foley basically making him, and the glorious title win...until HHH got the strap back in a truly hideous match and he never recovered. And 2009(?), when he punted Vince and attacked Stephanie. Reaction to that was HUGE at the time, I think some forums received their most ever traffic and people were convinced it was going to elevate him above and beyond...until he wrestled HHH at Wrestlemania in a truly hideous match and all the magic was lost.

 

I think if you highlighted his best feuds and matches it could be a hell of a collection. I remember one IC Title match on Raw in 2003/2004 where he bled hardway after hitting the ring post and it really was superb. The Evolution stuff. Foley. Benoit. He was a lot better before he got really corny, with the banging the mat and the cheesy serpent faces and overstated mannerisms. He should have remained an arrogant, talented, pretty boy prick character with a nasty devious streak.

 

One thing that got me about his initial era was how they wasted the big matches of Orton v Cena, Batista v Cena and Bastiata v Orton - those matches should have debuted as Wrestlemania main events, especially since they kepy Cena and Orton apart for so long. Felt like a real anticlimax in the end.

 

The Wayne Rooney of wrestling? Exciting, promising start that leads to a solid career that despite the achievements and fantastic performance still feels like an underachievement.

[sek69]

It's just so weird that at times in his matches he comes across as a guy with zero motivation like he was someone who's had the passion beat out of him, when he's the complete opposite of that. Like I could get a Zack Ryder type saying fuck it and stop giving a shit, but when it's someone who was anointed at worst the 1B player and given every opportunity humanly possible it's mind boggling.

 

Going back to watch the RNN era Randy compared to now seems like a completely different person. If a Warrior like rumor starts at some point claiming the original Orton died and the current boring/coasting version is a replacement I'd believe it.

[stro]

Orton acts like he's offended he still has to do this wrestling shit. I've never seen a guy at his level of 15 year push come off like he wants to be in the ring less.

[pmo]

I wonder how much is that he's a third gen guy and it's all he knows. Look at a guy like Barry windham who spent the last 3-4 Out of shape and lazy after being arguably one of the best in world. Another example is Owen hart, I mean foley talks about "bad Owen" matches as a way of keeping himself interested. While I think that 2nd and 3rd guys seem to pick it up quicker there seems to be a number of that this isn't a lifelong passion for no matter how talented they are and/or they get bored of it. They are just so far ahead of everyone it doesn't make sense not to go into the business. For every Bret who lives and dies for the business there is an Owen who it's a job to. I think Randy falls into the latter category and has for the last 5 years.

[sek69]

With Owen, he may have dicked around on house shows but I don't recall him giving lackluster performances on PPV events like Randy does.

[stro]

He had some lackluster PPV matches, but they weren't because of him. Specifically the Feb 1996 IYH with HBK that was basically a fucking comedy match. That's my go to example of why face HBK was fucking trash.

[BrianB]

It's pretty unique. I know some people compared him to Sting when people were pushing to keep Sting out of the observer HOF, but I never cared much for Orton and did at various points for Sting. Does John Studd count? He definitely didn't have a rep as a worker or anything, but the guy was just a total sack in the ring from what I've seen.

[Brandon-E]

How about Edge?

[sek69]

Edge didn't always get the best creative to work with, but his feud with Cena where he got himself booed and John cheered nearly 100% at a time when that never happened put him above Orton to me.

[Robert S]

I am not the biggest fan of Edge in-ring but I would rather watch a Best of Adam Copeland 30 DVDs (4 h per disc) set before watching another Randy Orton match where the main purpose is for the announcers to shout "RKO OUT OF NOWHERE" and use the terms "Apex Predator" and "The Viper" 20000 times.

Randy Orton might really have been a good talent at a point where I was watching barely any WWE (basically from 2001 to about 2008). I remember 10-12 years (or so) ago reading that WWE told Orton to heavily study Jake Roberts, as a result he turned into a bad parody of Roberts.

[NintendoLogic]

Orton seems to be one of those guys other wrestlers love for his look, pedigree, and family lineage

 

I don't think it's so much that as the fact that the things he's great at, like timing and positioning, are a big deal to other wrestlers but aren't necessarily noticed by fans. Those things aren't going to make a match great by themselves, but their absence can cause a match to fall apart. That's why even if he doesn't have that many matches that are transcendently great, he has even fewer matches that are absolutely wretched.

[rzombie1988]

How about Edge?

No way. E+C's tag run was good and he had a good run as the Rated R superstar and did okay during the Smackdown 6 era.

[iamthedoctor]

Has any other top star had such a lackluster career like Orton?

 

He's been at the top for 13-14 years now and I would easily put his career below every single one of his immediate peers. As I started thinking more, the only other guy I could come up with who was on top like for him for so long and did so little was Lex Luger, but I found Luger to be a bit more entertaining.

 

It's almost an amazing accomplishment in a way.

 

I've never really been that impressed with Triple H's career once he hit the main event scene.

[Mad Dog]

HHH did have about 10 months of fairly good in 2000 early 2001.

[SmartMark15]

I've found it hard to care about anything Orton has done in the past thirteen years that doesn't involve having a way of hitting the RKO. He's one of those guys that I felt peaked incredibly early (that run in 03-04 with the IC Title is probably his career best stuff especially vs. Foley) and has been coasting on his position ever since.

[stro]

HHH did have about 10 months of fairly good in 2000 early 2001.

 

HHH has a lot of good matches outside of that period, too. Even his deathreign era had good matches. He was much, much better as a main eventer than he ever was as a mid carder, which was almost entirely dull dogshit, even his matches with Rock for the Euro/IC belts. The only truly bad period he had after becoming a main eventer was the DX reunion stuff.

[Loss]

The title reign from 12/02 - 09/03 is as bad as any long-term title run in company history.

[stro]

I don't agree with that at all. It seemed bad at the time, but in retrospect it is much better. There's a difference between bad booking and bad matches. The only bad matches during that reign were the ones with Steiner, and the 3 stages of hell with HBK.

[Strummer]

What do you think of the Nash matches? The Cell match was shit on pretty badly at the time but I just watched a few months ago or so and I'd didn't think it was *that* bad. But the booking was so terrible in 02/03 that's it's hard for me to enjoy pretty much anything from that era. I mean we have the SD 6 but even that became repetitive after awhile. 03 had the horrible Vince/Stephanie and Shane/Kane feuds that just never ended. Oh and that horrible Shane/Bischoff feud over Linda (which somehow transitioned to the Kane program). Just so much terrible stuff in that era