Jimmy Redman Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 It's tricky with Dolph. As a heel he was good, and that's what got him support and smark cheers. But then when they turned him babyface, he was terrible at it and started his downward spiral. So like what do you do with a heel who can't work face who people want to cheer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 What I never understand about guys they obviously don't like at all like Dolph is why they even keep them employed. Just let them go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirEdger Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 If they wanted me to throw my remote at my TV during the Ziggler segment, mission accomplished. I just can't anymore. And I was a Ziggler fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmartMark15 Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 It's tricky with Dolph. As a heel he was good, and that's what got him support and smark cheers. But then when they turned him babyface, he was terrible at it and started his downward spiral. So like what do you do with a heel who can't work face who people want to cheer. I always got the feel that Ziggler was quite decent as opposed to great or even very good. What did you find to be his peak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alucard Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 I'm in the minority but I thought last year was Ziggler's best. The promos building up to SummerSlam were his career best (Ambrose's too IMO) and the Miz feud was consistently delivering good-great matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 Dolph's segment on Smackdown is one of the worst things I've ever seen on wrestling television. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 This is just like the Gore Vidal/William F. Buckley debates.When is a hateful fascist closet case going to call someone a queer and threaten to punch him? And in other news, if you still don't realize Jason Jordan is gonna be a heel, his music literally says "related to and destined for greatness " or some shit like that. He was even wearing the Connor shirt, which is a tightrope to walk when you're creating the "pandering babyface" that's intended to turn off the crowd. It's an attempt to recreate Rocky Maivia, and that's tough when it isn't organic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 Braun Strowman has to be the most compelling wrestling character in WWE since Daniel Bryan in the first quarter of 2014. I really hope they pull the trigger and give him the title. Roman-Strowman is a more interesting feud anyway and apparently the two are also doing excellent house show numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 It's tricky with Dolph. As a heel he was good, and that's what got him support and smark cheers. But then when they turned him babyface, he was terrible at it and started his downward spiral. So like what do you do with a heel who can't work face who people want to cheer.I always got the feel that Ziggler was quite decent as opposed to great or even very good. What did you find to be his peak? He was good around 2010-2013. Good run with Vickie in tow, good run with the IC Title. Good team with Swagger. Great matches over the years with Kofi, Orton, Sheamus, Cena, Bryan, Alberto, Cesaro, Rey, etc. By the end of 2012 he flirted with the main event with the Cena feud, and when he cashed in MITB it was HUGE. The double turn with Alberto was great. Even in the last few years, that SS match, the Miz feud, wasn't there a ladder match with Harper? All good stuff. I think it's unfair to suggest he was never good. But he's been pedestrian and really served no purpose for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 I'll concede that he's had good matches (though very few if any great ones) but his character has been meta bullshit about his push for about 4 years and it's unbearable. He has terrible instincts as a worker as well, but is athletic enough to be carried by the right guy. He would be a solid midcard hand if he didn't seem so played out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 Braun Strowman has to be the most compelling wrestling character in WWE since Daniel Bryan in the first quarter of 2014. I really hope they pull the trigger and give him the title. Roman-Strowman is a more interesting feud anyway and apparently the two are also doing excellent house show numbers. He's a superheavyweight talent at a level we haven't seen since Vader. I wish 2-3 year title runs were still a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 They could have made the Dolph stuff entertaining if the gave him the Poochie treatment like they hinted at. Go completely over the top with the presentation. Turn him into a walking Mountain Dew commercial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted September 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 You'd think putting the title on Braun would be a no brainer. He's everything Brock brings to the table in terms of being a big scary monster who can toss people around, a better promo, is available full time, and comes at a fraction of the cost. I actually still like Brock, but Braun is so clearly the better choice on top I don't see any way you can argue otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 Braun will get his time on top, people don't need to get hung up on him being champ RIGHT NOW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 Braun is special being Braun, you make him the champ and then he gets slotted inside the formula they use for all champions and it's not going to be as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted September 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 Why does he need to wait though? If Brock was ushering in a new boom period I would get wanting to be patient, but he's not and you have someone who's hot so why not strike now and see what happens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 How is putting the belt on Braun somehow going to magically make him more over or more pushed than he is now? He's already a huge focus of the show and has been pinned once in his entire run. You put the belt on him and you put him in scenarios where he's more likely to get fucked up than helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 I don't think the reason to make anyone champion is to get them more over, but that's a different conversation. It wasn't a complaint, just an observation that a long Braun title run where he seemed unstoppable would be really cool to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted September 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 Well for one you'd have a champ who'd be around for more than a couple shows a year. It wouldn't "magically make him more over" but it would help the title to be around more, and possibly help get other people over by having programs with him. Plus it would be unlikely that Braun would be placed in bad scenarios since he's literally the walking embodiment of everything Vince has ever wanted in a wrestler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 If they make Braun the champion they are pretty much going to have to make him look more vulnerable so people believe whoever the challenger is has a chance at beating him. They did it with Brock Lesnar already in this run by having him get choked out by Samoa Joe and Braun killing him at SummerSlam and then dominating him on Raw. People liked that because it was Brock but put Braun in the same scenarios and people will be writing that Vince McMahon needs to die or retire already. And that's not even getting into him getting stuck doing random main event Raw tag matches or losing a non-title match to set up a PPV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 It's tricky with Dolph. As a heel he was good, and that's what got him support and smark cheers. But then when they turned him babyface, he was terrible at it and started his downward spiral. So like what do you do with a heel who can't work face who people want to cheer.I always got the feel that Ziggler was quite decent as opposed to great or even very good. What did you find to be his peak?He was good around 2010-2013. Good run with Vickie in tow, good run with the IC Title. Good team with Swagger. Great matches over the years with Kofi, Orton, Sheamus, Cena, Bryan, Alberto, Cesaro, Rey, etc. By the end of 2012 he flirted with the main event with the Cena feud, and when he cashed in MITB it was HUGE. The double turn with Alberto was great. Even in the last few years, that SS match, the Miz feud, wasn't there a ladder match with Harper? All good stuff. I think it's unfair to suggest he was never good. But he's been pedestrian and really served no purpose for a long time. He was good until the Rusev feud. Then he started cosplaying hair metal bands and it was downhill quick. I used to love Dolph but can't stand him now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthedoctor Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 I really hope Nakamura isn't going to job a second PPV in a row. Even on his PPV debut they made him look a jobber and let Zigger get too much defense in the match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 Hell can freeze over, but I agree with goc, Braun doesn't need the title right now to be special. He's special as being Braun, he's typically the case of a guy who's an attraction in of itself. Braun can be the Undertaker circa early to mid-90's, except his matches are a lot better. Taker didn't get the belt before 97 (yeah, he got it for a week in 91 but it's a footnote). Lesnar used to be special for a while until he became a gimmick and a phantom champ (and looked special again paired up against.... Braun). Let's not have Braun be "just another guy" by putting a belt that has no value left on him. Let him be Braun, the "special attraction". When times comes, you can make him the champ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 Heel Dolph was the shits. He had the same problem as early 90s heel HBK: he was a big bumper and seller with virtually no offense. That's not as much of an issue as a face since he can spend most of the match selling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted September 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 It's really a chicken and egg argument here, Braun shouldn't get the belt because it has no value, but nothing would give the belt value faster than putting it on Braun. Right now is the best example of "wrestler makes the belt" since the Universal Title has gone from the first champ vacating after a day, to a guy who had it literally handed to him and pushed as undeserving, to a retired guy doing a comeback tour, to a part timer. From a business standpoint it seems like the best way to go: elevate the top title on the A show, they don't have to feel the need to keep paying Brock $5 million a year while being eternally locked in cost cutting mode, and instead of making Braun look vulnerable they can just position him like the final boss of a fighting game. If WWE is feeling especially frisky, you can book it so beating Braun can be the last nudge to create a new star, and....fuck....I just gave them another way to try to get Roman over, didn't I? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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