The Thread Killer Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 I'd like to think most fans with half a brain now see that Reigns is damn good. As has been discussed (at great length) most of the fans who boo him now don't even really have a legit reason to do it. Sure, I can see booing Cena, who is stale, formulaic, stale, wooden, and quite lame. And also stale. But at this point, I think people who are still booing Reigns are just doing it out of stubbornness. I don't think they're going to stop booing him, no matter what. Unless WWE starts booking him correctly. Which they won't. That promo last Monday was pretty damn good, and he did turn a portion of the crowd, no doubt. But I don't think WWE has finally figured out how to book Reigns as a face, because I really don't think they know how to book a babyface anymore, at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawho5 Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 If it is to play into that narrative, it should be on TV. Not a house show that people go to expecting more. But then again, does the WWE care about house shows anymore? Aren't more of their revenues TV and merch based? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 See, I haven't read complaints from people who were there, just people who are acting like they were there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucky Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 Yeah but Johnny, what do you even read anyways? Like when do you ever discuss wrestling with anyone besides your apocryphal nephews and the stoned non wrestling fans from your garage that you talk about in every other PPV thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 I'd like to think most fans with half a brain now see that Reigns is damn good. As has been discussed (at great length) most of the fans who boo him now don't even really have a legit reason to do it. Sure, I can see booing Cena, who is stale, formulaic, stale, wooden, and quite lame. And also stale. But at this point, I think people who are still booing Reigns are just doing it out of stubbornness. I don't think they're going to stop booing him, no matter what. Unless WWE starts booking him correctly. Which they won't. That promo last Monday was pretty damn good, and he did turn a portion of the crowd, no doubt. But I don't think WWE has finally figured out how to book Reigns as a face, because I really don't think they know how to book a babyface anymore, at all. In fairness, I can unterstand why some aren't into the booking of a Reigns because they're not consistent enough in letting him be a bad ass with the swaggering demeanour. The way he acted just after the Mania where he beat HHH was probably his best character but that only comes out now and again. The promo on Monday was a great way of getting back to that though. But I'm really bemused by people acting as if there's no reason to be excited for this match and that there's been no build for it. The first Mania match between the two is one of my favourite WWE matches ever and there's been low key build for a rematch underlying a lot of the last few years. I swear, people complain that WWE beat you over the head with stuff then completely misinterpret things when they try to be a bit more subtle - e.g. Jason Jordan's slow build heel turn where people were still acting as if he was a mispushed babyface a month into the turn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 More importantly, can someone scout out the Cena vs Reigns match for the community and tell us if it's any good. There's a decent fan cam easy to find on youtube. I only was able to see the first few minutes but it's obvious they're having fun with the heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 I'd like to think most fans with half a brain now see that Reigns is damn good. As has been discussed (at great length) most of the fans who boo him now don't even really have a legit reason to do it. Sure, I can see booing Cena, who is stale, formulaic, stale, wooden, and quite lame. And also stale. But at this point, I think people who are still booing Reigns are just doing it out of stubbornness. I don't think they're going to stop booing him, no matter what. Unless WWE starts booking him correctly. Which they won't. That promo last Monday was pretty damn good, and he did turn a portion of the crowd, no doubt. But I don't think WWE has finally figured out how to book Reigns as a face, because I really don't think they know how to book a babyface anymore, at all. 4 straight Manias is a long time with the amount of TV. People are against him because he's been so forced. He has the same problem Randy Orton does. You can never let your guard down even if you think he's getting moved down the card because they're just waiting to start a new push for him. Everything with Roman feels forced to a degree. And part of the problem with this match with Lesnar is it was obvious for a year where they were going to it rendered an entire year of programs meaningless. People wanted to see Joe and Braun vs. Lesnar more and both got glossed over because Lesnar is a part timer and we needed to get to that Mania match. I know we all bitch about their lack of long term planning but this past year is exactly how you don't approach long term booking. We're going into Year 5 of Roman the main eventer. People were getting tired of Hogan at this point and they were turning Austin and Rock heel well before this point in their runs. He's past a main eventers expiration date and he never really got over to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 We're going into Year 5 of Roman the main eventer. People were getting tired of Hogan at this point and they were turning Austin and Rock heel well before this point in their runs. He's past a main eventers expiration date and he never really got over to begin with. That's the craziest thing to me. Things are moving so damn slowly now. This is why things seem so dull. 5 years used to be a long damn time in pro-wrestling. Compare WWF in 92 and 97, WCW in 92 and 97... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthedoctor Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 While no one wants a 60-minute Iron Man Match between these two, this is the epitome of laziness and a huge kick in the balls to anyone who attended this live. I really hope Lesnar is done with WWE after Mania and retreats back to UFC. Couldnt it have just been Kane who squashed Lesnar instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 The backlash against Lesnar has become overheated. I understand the frustration with his role, and I don't think they needed to give him another long title run. But most of the stuff he did last year--Goldberg blow off, Joe feud, Summerslam main event, A.J. match--came off well. The Braun match was probably the big exception. Is Lesnar stale compared to 5-6 years ago? Absolutely. But he's far from a disaster in these big-event programs. And I'm excited for the Reigns match. Their previous match is on the short list of best main events in Wrestlemania history. They never resolved it. Reigns's promo set up renewed heat between them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 I thought the Joe match was disappointing and the Summerslam match was more the Braun Strowman Happy Fun Time Murder Show. The Styles match to me is more the exception for his inring work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 I'm less frustrated with Lesnar than I was a few years ago, mostly because as Childs' indicated, the wheel has turned. That said, I had looked forward to the pairing with Kane because I thought he couldn't just do his normal formula, but obviously we've gotten even less than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 My biggest issue is I hate having a part time champion. It was terrible the last time he was champ and they decided to go even longer with him this time. Edit: I also hate this as a main event. They both have more meaningful feuds they could pay off here with either guy facing Braun or Joe. I think the crowds would actually be hotter for that. I really don't need the original match revisted as Lesnar is 4 years older and apparently doesn't give a shit anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 Arguing that Reigns never really got over is one of the most ridiculous things Ive seen in a while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 I have no desire to see Braun vs. Brock. We know what that looks like, and it isn't that exciting. They hit Braun vs. Reigns hard last year, and they'll presumably have plenty of time to revisit it in the future. Joe isn't set up for a big 'Mania match at this point. For me, Brock-Reigns is the no-brainer choice among those guys. And then maybe the best thing is for Brock to go away, either temporarily or permanently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Rock Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 The issue with Brock other than the fact that it seems like the dude might be shot physically and is willing to completely eat people alive unless he cares or they actually give it back to him is that he's given the top star treatment while no one else is. He's the only guy who's made to look remotely important besides A.J. and occasionally Braun. It basically becomes a hindrance to the product as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shodate Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 all this is was old-fashioned squash match Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 Arguing that Reigns never really got over is one of the most ridiculous things Ive seen in a while I mean Rollins and Reigns have tanked ratings to historic lows in a very short period of time. Rollins more than Reigns but you can't really argue they are doing well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 I have no desire to see Braun vs. Brock. We know what that looks like, and it isn't that exciting. They hit Braun vs. Reigns hard last year, and they'll presumably have plenty of time to revisit it in the future. Joe isn't set up for a big 'Mania match at this point. For me, Brock-Reigns is the no-brainer choice among those guys. And then maybe the best thing is for Brock to go away, either temporarily or permanently. If Brock is to be seen again, it should be to job clean to Braun at Summerslam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 If Roman Reigns "never really got over" then neither did John Cena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 I feel like people are being obtuse at this point if it's not clear that Roman is clearly not the beloved top babyface the company so badly wants him to be. Yes he is very good in the ring now, yes his promos are good if he isn't being given "sufferin' succotash" level cringe material to say, but he is the square peg being jammed in the round hole despite there being a guy (BRAUN) who caught fire and wouldn't be rejected in the same position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 I feel like people are being obtuse at this point if it's not clear that Roman is clearly not the beloved top babyface the company so badly wants him to be. Yes he is very good in the ring now, yes his promos are good if he isn't being given "sufferin' succotash" level cringe material to say, but he is the square peg being jammed in the round hole despite there being a guy (BRAUN) who caught fire and wouldn't be rejected in the same position. Pretty sure there are only a few hundred message board posts with the same lines of logic regarding Cena from 2007 all the way to 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 People talk about Braun becoming the top guy, but I'm not at all sure he belongs in that role long-term. Yes, he's more over than Reigns, but he's not nearly as pliable. Others have talked about making him this generation's Undertaker, and I like that idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 People talk about Braun becoming the top guy, but I'm not at all sure he belongs in that role long-term. Yes, he's more over than Reigns, but he's not nearly as pliable. Others have talked about making him this generation's Undertaker, and I like that idea. Yeah but who cares about long term. You have him beat Lesnar back in September and murder smash people until people are sick of it. Might be 6 months, might be a year. Who cares if you make more money than you would have otherwise in the same timeframe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 Arguing that Reigns never really got over is one of the most ridiculous things Ive seen in a while I mean Rollins and Reigns have tanked ratings to historic lows in a very short period of time. Rollins more than Reigns but you can't really argue they are doing well. But ratings got lower under Cena, under Punk and Bryan and now with these guys. The trajectory has been down for a long time. There are a number of factors in that - the general decline of TV, availability of clips on YouTube, stale environment, super long shows, bad booking etc - but when we always say how the brand is the star above any of the performers it's hard to put the blame for ratings on any one or two acts in the same way as used to happen unless there's evidence that the segments they appear in tank dramatically. It's also worth nothing that Roman's segments do well on YouTube and he's in amongst the most watched performers there along with Braun, Brock and Cena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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