83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff

[Johnny Sorrow]

It's funny how some shows work depending on the circumstances you're in. I normally avoid the watch along shows because I'm not about to sit in front of the TV and watch something as I listen on my phone. But sometimes they work during a drive. For in stance, the latest Bischoff show is a watch along of the first Thunder. This past weekend I was on call for work and I had to drive an hour from home at 6:45 pm Saturday night to handle an emergency and then drive an hour back home. The Thunder show was exactly what I needed for my drive. I couldn't imagine just listening to it while relaxing at home, but it worked for the drive.

[The Thread Killer]

On 1/6/2020 at 8:57 PM, Migs said:

I think the ultimate problem is that he doesn't get into enough depth. So once he's covered a couple of shows from an era, he's basically mined his subject for all their thoughts on the matter. From an artistic perspective, he should probably do six months worth of shows with a guest and move on.

That's a good point.  One thing I have found from all of Conrad's podcasts is that eventually, the same stories will end up being told by the same person three or four times. If you're a regular listener, you end up rolling your eyes and asking why they are telling that story AGAIN.

[War is Raw]

Once I went Arn with Ep 1, I couldn't go back to the others. He is a straight shooter. His road stories and random details are new, and Conrad isn't working his gimmick.

 

[SomethingSavage]

Arn's is by far the best one going right now. Every now and then, you do still get glimpses of him attempting to talk kayfabe though. It doesn't ever dertract from the show, and I honestly believe it's just his natural inclination to go there. But I noticed it again in the TV Title episode with him talking about what a fight it was to win the belt from Wahoo, as if it were an actual contest.

Bischoff's show has been strictly background noise for me for a long time - with the TNA episode being the last one I found enjoyable. There was the start of a thought-provoking discussion about long-term storytelling versus short-term angles on the latest Bret episode (I believe), but neither Eric nor Conrad dove deep enough into it to make it as interesting as it could have been. Unfortunate that this show has become so weak after several strong episodes earlier on.

[Afro Steel]

Probably my biggest issue with Conrad is he's just not that inquisitive of a person, which often hampers his ability to guide a compelling interview/discussion. There have been so many times on the Prichard podcast where Bruce tells an intriguing story and Conrad practically no-sells it and promptly moves on to his next talking point. It's like if there's not a dick joke or a Vince/Pat/Cornette impression to be made, Conrad can't or won't capitalize on it. I compare that to someone like Marc Maron, who is so good at fleshing out a discussion with a guest that I find myself listening to and enjoying episodes where I don't even really have an interest in the guest.

The Meltzer bashing is also beyond tired. Don't like the guy? Fine. Then stop basing almost all of your "research" on what he and Keller wrote. I would be OK hearing legitimate gripes about them, but at least in Prichard's case, he almost never veers from the "Fuck Meltzer" shtick. Hell, there have been many instances where Prichard pushes back on something Dave wrote and in explaining why Dave was wrong, Prichard basically ends up agreeing with him. 

[The Thread Killer]

1 hour ago, Afro Steel said:

The Meltzer bashing is also beyond tired. Don't like the guy? Fine. Then stop basing almost all of your "research" on what he and Keller wrote. I would be OK hearing legitimate gripes about them, but at least in Prichard's case, he almost never veers from the "Fuck Meltzer" shtick. Hell, there have been many instances where Prichard pushes back on something Dave wrote and in explaining why Dave was wrong, Prichard basically ends up agreeing with him. 

That's actually one of the things I like about Bischoff.  When he freaks out about Meltzer (which he frequently does) he usually at least specifies exactly what Meltzer said that was inaccurate and gives his side of the story. And in Bischoff's case, I think a lot of his problems with Meltzer don't actually have anything to do with Dave Meltzer himself.  Bischoff seemed more frustrated about the fact that certain executives within the Turner organization were reading stuff in the Observer and forming opinions based on what they read, without even bothering to check with Bischoff regarding the veracity of the story in question.  I know Bischoff was also extremely frustrated about people within WCW leaking information or acting as a "source" to Dave Meltzer as a means of furthering their own political agenda.  When you think about it, neither of those problems that Bischoff had are actually Dave's fault.

[BigBadMick]

On 1/22/2020 at 5:48 PM, Afro Steel said:

Probably my biggest issue with Conrad is he's just not that inquisitive of a person, which often hampers his ability to guide a compelling interview/discussion. There have been so many times on the Prichard podcast where Bruce tells an intriguing story and Conrad practically no-sells it and promptly moves on to his next talking point. It's like if there's not a dick joke or a Vince/Pat/Cornette impression to be made, Conrad can't or won't capitalize on it. I compare that to someone like Marc Maron, who is so good at fleshing out a discussion with a guest that I find myself listening to and enjoying episodes where I don't even really have an interest in the guest.

The Meltzer bashing is also beyond tired. Don't like the guy? Fine. Then stop basing almost all of your "research" on what he and Keller wrote. I would be OK hearing legitimate gripes about them, but at least in Prichard's case, he almost never veers from the "Fuck Meltzer" shtick. Hell, there have been many instances where Prichard pushes back on something Dave wrote and in explaining why Dave was wrong, Prichard basically ends up agreeing with him. 

I'd put it down to Conrad being a very busy man these days. I get the impression he's pushing Bischoff and especially Ross along in recent episodes, hoping to finish up asap.

[The Thread Killer]

On 12/31/2018 at 7:23 PM, SomethingSavage said:

It was cool to hear Eric talk about his time in TNA for a change. I kind of wish they'd go the Prichard route and take a couple of episodes to really dive into the subject, to be honest.

 

On 1/1/2019 at 9:54 AM, El-P said:

I am interested in TNA stuff. So there. Hit me with some references, people

 

On 1/1/2019 at 3:27 PM, SomethingSavage said:

There are no TNA-centric episodes just yet. The only one that mentions anything specific about TNA is the Q&A episode.

 

On 1/2/2020 at 7:50 AM, SomethingSavage said:

The TNA episode was so refreshing. I may be absolutely alone in this, but I really wish they'd review some of the monthly TNA PPVs from the 2010-2013 Eric and Hogan regime. Fuck it. I'm a fan of that period, and at least it would offer new talking points. 1997 news & notes have been beaten to fucking death, revived, and killed again.

I may be setting the all time PWO record here for quoting a post, since @SomethingSavage and @El-P made some of those statements above almost a year and a half ago...but there's actually a reason for it, I swear.  I'm not one of those guys who goes around bumping old threads for no reason.

As is well evidenced by even skimming this thread, I used to be an unabashed 83 Weeks fanboy.  For quite a while it was my favorite podcast, hands down.  There was the run of shows 83 Weeks had from November - December 2018 where every show was pretty much a home run, both entertaining and informative.  The shows after that were still pretty good, but my interest began to wane for a couple of reasons.  I found the format to be getting a bit "samey" but moreover I started to go off Pro Wrestling podcasts altogether, I was just getting burnt out as a listener.  The main reason I quit listening altogether though, is because Eric went back to work for WWE in October 2019.  One of the reasons I liked 83 Weeks is because Bischoff was pretty much out of the business and wasn't all that worried about burning any bridges. When he went back to WWE, I knew that Eric Bischoff was way too political a person to say anything even remotely controversial (and by association revealing) while he was working for Vince McMahon.  I knew he wasn't going to bite the hand that was now feeding him, he wouldn't want to gloat about his success beating his new boss in the ratings, and he certainly wasn't going to criticize WWE now. Plus, I figured he'd be too busy working to seriously devote any creative energy to his podcast. 

After Bischoff crashed and burned with WWE this past winter (or as he and Conrad liked to joke, lasted "83 Days") I gave the show a couple of weeks to let the dust settle, and then I started to check it out periodically again.  The show pretty quickly returned to it's tried and true formula, reviewing old WCW shows, doing watch-alongs of WCW shows or the odd "deep dive" on a particular talent.  Like a lot of people, (and like the post quoted above) I had always hoped Bischoff would change things up a bit and discuss his time in TNA.  He had always claimed that he wouldn't discuss TNA for two reasons.  Firstly, he still had friends there and he didn't want to bury the company...but also he had ongoing litigation against Dixie Carter and Panda Energy and it's never a good idea to publicly discuss somebody you're in the process of suing, because that can be brought as evidence into the lawsuit.

I suspected the lawsuit must have been settled because they finally discussed TNA in late September with the episode "Eric Joins TNA."  Also, I don't think there is anybody left working in Impact Wrestling that Eric worked with, or he's back to not caring if he burns bridges, because 83 Weeks has finally started to cover Eric Biscoff's time in TNA.  Or maybe Conrad is running out of old WCW shows and talent to talk about.  Either way, on April 13 they covered TNA Lockdown 2010.  This is the first TNA show they have covered, and it was a blast.  Great episode.  Eric is definitely in total NFLTG mode.  He just buries the hell out of a lot of stuff in TNA, and goes on an extended rant about the six sided ring.  Conrad even comments that he is more used to the careful, thoughtful, political Eric Bischoff and he really enjoys salty, pissed off, don't give a fuck Eric Bischoff.  I found that episode to be a lot of fun, a change of pace episode but a return to form for the podcast overall.

This week, they covered the period when TNA went head to head with WWE on Monday Nights.  Once again, it has been a refreshing change of pace and I am really enjoying it.  83 Weeks seems to be recharged, and it is shooting back up to the top of my Pro Wrestling podcast list.  I have to be honest, I don't listen to Bruce Prichard anymore.  I find Arn engaging but a little dry and too diplomatic at times (plus I hate the "AMA" format) and JR can have good weeks...but his saltiness and defensive rants at strawmen can get a little old after a while.  I am really happy that 83 Weeks seems to be having a bit of a resurgence.  If you are one of the fans who used to like this show but quit, or if you wanted to hear him talk about his time in TNA and were disappointed that he didn't, I'd check the April 13 and May 4 episodes out, you may enjoy them.

[El-P]

Thanks for the reference, but I've long gave up on every Conrad podcast, even Arn's. 

EDIt : oh, whatever, TNA is so not talked about, I'm gonna give those a chance.

[BigBadMick]

Thank you, Thread Killer. I've dipped in and out of the show over its duration so far. Ill check out those TNA episodes.

[El-P]

Well, if anything else, Bischoff answer to the Bubba vs Kong incident being "Go Kong. I hope she drew blood." won a big point with me.

[The Thread Killer]

If nothing else, the TNA shows are interesting because they dispel some of the fallacies surrounding Bischoff's time in TNA.  Pretty much everybody online when he went there were making cracks about how he failed to move the needle on the management side, and used his time in TNA as further proof of his ineffectiveness as a Pro Wrestling executive.  Eric Bischoff has long maintained that he wasn't involved in TNA management, but during these shows he has gone into detail about the fact that they literally didn't want him there, and the feeling was mutual.  He claims he has a contract which not only proves he wasn't in management, but that said contract was actually his idea and written up by his lawyer. @SomethingSavage mentioned it earlier in this thread, but Bischoff has reiterated that in TNA, he basically became the "Jimmy Hart" of the deal.  If you wanted Hogan, you had to take Bischoff...and that was at Hogan's insistence, apparently.

[sek69]

This may all be 100% true, but it's something how nothing that went bad anywhere he went was never Eric's fault. 

[The Thread Killer]

4 hours ago, sek69 said:

This may all be 100% true, but it's something how nothing that went bad anywhere he went was never Eric's fault. 

That is not an accurate statement. Eric Bischoff takes the blame and the responsibility for many of the things that went wrong with WCW on several episodes of this podcast.  There are a ton of examples of him admitting fault. Bischoff has stated on more than one occasion that he allowed the top level talent in WCW to have way too much say in their own creative, and that he didn't pay close enough attention to creative in general.  He has said that he didn't have any confidence in his own creative abilities or ideas, so he deferred to other people. He admits that WCW overexposed the nWo and rode that angle too long. He admits to waiting too long to cycle fresh talent into the main event scene. He takes the blame for a lot of the crap matches and angles that he and Conrad have reviewed.  He is especially remorseful for how he handled the conflict with Ric Flair. He has also stated more than once that he should have dealt with Scott Hall and his substance abuse problems a lot differently. Hell, over and above all that...he recently did a "members only" podcast with Conrad Thompson where he discussed his recent ill fated tenure with WWE.  Bischoff shoulders the majority of the blame for that fiasco as well.  Hell, not only does he admit that he washed out in WWE due to his inability work within their system and give Vince what he wanted...he even admits he took the job for the money, and even talks about all the mistakes he made professionally and financially that forced him to have to accept the WWE job in the first place.

You've made it pretty clear in this thread that you're not an Eric Bischoff fan, and that's fine.  I can understand why somebody wouldn't be.  But your claim he never accepts fault for his mistakes is just not true.

[El-P]

Well thank you @The Thread Killer for pimping those shows, I really thought they were very interesting and well balanced overall. With very few Meltz bashing (and really, it's sooo obvious he's working at times). I really enjoy the fact Bischoff has tons of *good* things to say about TNA (when in the past he mentioned he had nothing good to say about his experience here) and the talent there. His analysis about the differences between AJ Styles and James Storm are quite interesting I thought (never noticed the boo-boo face about James Storm before though, I'll definitely try to spot it now) and it's very true of AJ, whose always been a trooper no matter how bad the stuff given to him was (and really, apart from a few times, it mostly was, from being Christian fanboy to being turned into El Hijo del Flair to the upcoming Claire Lynch storyline) and who always managed to make the most of it too. I love the idea that Lacy Von Erich had a mouth like a garbage truck driver.  Anyway, apparently they are gonna do more TNA shows, so that's good, since it's probably the less talked about topic of the last 20 years period (the Brucie podcasts were very good too, back in the days). The funny thing is, the last Bischoff podcast (and the only one in a very long time) I listened before those two was the one about Eric signing with TNA months ago.

[The Thread Killer]

6 hours ago, El-P said:

His analysis about the differences between AJ Styles and James Storm are quite interesting I thought (never noticed the boo-boo face about James Storm before though, I'll definitely try to spot it now)

I remember @C.S. mentioning in another thread that he saw an interview with Al Snow somewhere in which Snow also said that James Storm can be prone to sulking when he is asked to lose a match.  I can't help but wonder if this reputation precedes him and might not be part of the reason he never caught on anywhere else.  He had that extra short stay in NXT, and that was it.

6 hours ago, El-P said:

Anyway, apparently they are gonna do more TNA shows, so that's good, since it's probably the less talked about topic of the last 20 years period (the Brucie podcasts were very good too, back in the days). The funny thing is, the last Bischoff podcast (and the only one in a very long time) I listened before those two was the one about Eric signing with TNA months ago.

So far, they have done the "Eric Joins TNA" episode on September 30, and then TNA Lockdown 2010 on April 13, TNA Debuts on Monday Night on May 4, and this coming week will be TNA Sacrifice 2010.  So that should be good.  I'm glad you're enjoying it.

[C.S.]

I was wondering why I was quoted in this thread, haha.

4 hours ago, The Thread Killer said:

I remember @C.S. mentioning in another thread that he saw an interview with Al Snow somewhere in which Snow also said that James Storm can be prone to sulking when he is asked to lose a match.  I can't help but wonder if this reputation precedes him and might not be part of the reason he never caught on anywhere else.  He had that extra short stay in NXT, and that was it. 

It was from Al Snow's book:

Link: Self Help: Life Lessons from the Bizarre Wrestling Career of Al Snow (Paperback)

I'll transcribe the relevant passage:

Some of the other guys were difficult to deal with whenever they were asked to lose. James Storm was the worst. He'd get what we'd call the "boo-boo face" and walk to the ring sulking, making it so obvious what was about to happen. Then, whenever he'd get to the back after putting someone over, he'd collapse and make a big scene before making a miraculous recovery later on. My favorite Storm scene was after a match where he'd been hit with a hammer. James was in the back, staggering around and asking people to call the doctor over. When the doctor to see him, he grabbed the hammer Storm had been hit with, squeezed it, looked at James and said, "This is made of rubber."

Wowww!

I remember when James Storm showed in NXT for the first (and last?) time. He looked so out of place, like a fish out of water, total indie rasslin'. I know the story goes that Storm opted to take a better deal from TNA instead of remaining in NXT, but I still firmly believe Triple H quietly decided it would never work and benevolently allowed him to create a cover story to save face and get more money for himself and his family. I have no proof of that whatsoever - it's just a strong hunch of mine.

 

[SomethingSavage]

First off, I really appreciate the heads up about these new Eric episodes. I'll definitely scope those out soon. Bischoff's last TNA show was great, and I was obviously an early fan of the show. I also lapsed once he signed with WWE, but I'm going to give these a listen.

Secondly, Eric has always maintained that Hulk wanted him as part of the package deal in TNA. Clearly Hulk was the target and the guy they wanted to bring in for mainstream appeal and attention, but Hulk wanted Eric there day-to-day to keep his interests in mind and serve as the buffer. Hogan is smart in how he recognizes other people's assets beyond just his own. Did he want his friend to get a payday? Probably. But he also knew that Eric knew advertisers, decent storytelling tropes, etc. as well.

Thirdly, I am a James Storm fan going way back. I always dug the guy's brawls & found him to be among the very best modern day bleeders. I loved the Beer Money tag team, his push towards main event status as a singles, and the Outlaw gimmick seemed destined to sell merch & make some money. But it was doomed to be confined to the TNA vacuum - where good things can happen, but nearly nobody hears about them.

But yes. If Eric also brings up the boo boo face thing, then he is only the latest & absolutely not alone. Prichard and Snow have both mentioned it before. I know Bruce has also talked about how he was inconsistent in when he would want to give 100% to an idea or an angle, which is an unfortunate thing to hear about someone you're a fan of tbh.

[El-P]

Yikes. Didn't last long. I'm one hour into this week's show about Sacrifice, and Bisch has spent about half the time talking about how people in the dirthseet don't know the television industry... Fuck Conrad, edit you fucking show already, it's been unbearable. Plus, his insistance on the only issue with TNA was about "growing the brand" and "go out of the soundstage" as he says and had nothing to do with the booking shows how narrow-minded he really is. Not to mention the ill-advised comparisons between then and now (get a shot each time he says AEW or NXT would love to have the same ratings as TNA had in 2010, which is mind-blowing stupid and ignores all the other things factored in like... AEW selling out actual big shows and doing pretty good PPV numbers and having a fat-ass TV contrat, while NXT is part of the biggest money machine ever, all in a very different context anyway). The fact is, the move to Monday has hurt the company because of the booking that drove the faithful audience away, just like WCW did. I hope the show gets better (and really, 3hours and a half should have ring the alarm bell already) but I'll be more cautious next time around...

[Big Pete]

I listened to the March 2010 edition and while Bischoff was very careful to point out that he was only involved in Hogan's creative, it's worth mentioning that took up more than half the show. We're not talking about Paul Heyman handling a 10-20 minute self-contained portion of the show, the whole complexion of the company changed when Hogan was brought in. It was no longer TNA Wrestling, it was Hulk Hogan's TNA Wrestling, with Hogan as this drill seargent trying to whip these boys into shape all while juggling his friends who were all trying to corrupt him and run a bad show, which they succeeded in, both in kayfabe and in reality.

Otherwise, like others I'm invested since this is a promotion that hasn't been talked to death and I have fond memories watching and pulling a part the shows 10 years ago.

[SomethingSavage]

I'm curious to hear when it is Bischoff stakes a claim in the overall creative. I know he always points to Aces & Eights as his brainchild, but I'm fairly certain it started sooner than that. If I had to guess, I'd think it started with the more episodic storytelling that started with the Joker Sting stuff in 2011.

I've said it a dozen times over in the various TNA threads, but Lockdown 2011 to Lockdown 2013 was an incredibly enjoyable peak for the company after an awfully low year in 2010. I think there's a great deal of fatigue and hangover from the Russo creative still in place throughout most of the year.

I don't know whether Immortal/THEY was a Bischoff idea, but I tend to believe it was another Hogan, Russo, Conway mashup. And yes. It was another misfire in the same vein as Abyss-A-Mania, Nature Boy Styles, etc.

I loved hearing Eric heap so much praise on Kaz & Daniels. I can totally buy that he appreciates those more creative, ambitious types. It's less work for him, but it also shows an entrepreneurial spirit. Guys like Eric want to do less while maintaining efficiency. Conversely, in McMahonland, that's overstepping. It's an OCD environment where control and bureaucracy comes first. If you have an idea, cool. But know your role & get back in line.

I also popped for the Kong story. "I hope she drew blood." was a fantastic line. There's something very admirable to me about Eric pulling no punches when it comes to his disdain for Bubba the Love Sponge. I absolutely believe he means it when he calls him scum and a lowlife.

Eric had another great line when he described initially getting the Jimmy Hart deal to join TNA and serve as Hulk's buffer. Eric said he and TNA had "mutual disinterest" in one another. They just wanted Hulk.

I enjoyed the TNA episodes so much that I actually went back and started to scope out some of the other episodes I'd missed since he left WWE. It's nothing great, but I was just getting through a workout and let the SuperBrawl V show play anyway.

I will say this - Eric's breakdown and analysis of the Alex Wright/Roma match is some PWO circa 2014 level shit. Very cool. And, even when he can't quite put his finger on what he wants to say, he does a great job of acknowledging that. He talks about selling needing to inspire hope and that he doesn't always know how to explain great selling, but he always knows it when he sees it. In something like pro wrestling - where so much is up for interpretation - it's easy to relate to that statement.

 

[Rocco]

Has Bischoff talked about why he wanted to unmask the luchadors? 

[Petey]

44 minutes ago, Rocco said:

Has Bischoff talked about why he wanted to unmask the luchadors? 

He felt that the masks were a hindrance to the luchadors when trying to tell a story in the ring to an American audience because the audience couldn't see their eyes/facial expressions and it was compounded by the fact that many luchadors were unable to speak fluent English. He may have phrased things a little different since I'm just doing it off memory but it's something along those lines.

[El-P]

10 hours ago, SomethingSavage said:

I've said it a dozen times over in the various TNA threads, but Lockdown 2011 to Lockdown 2013 was an incredibly enjoyable peak for the company after an awfully low year in 2010. I think there's a great deal of fatigue and hangover from the Russo creative still in place throughout most of the year.

Actually and despite the idiotic booking (especially on the women's front), I'd say things pick up after Slammiversary and during the Summer, and from then honestly there's quite a bit to enjoy with so much talent on the roster. I'd say without blinking that from the time the Summer hits, the promotion is much better than most of 2009 which has been a waste of a year. The first half of 2010 is clearly a complete waste too, but never boring though because of the WTF aspect of it. 

10 hours ago, SomethingSavage said:

I don't know whether Immortal/THEY was a Bischoff idea, but I tend to believe it was another Hogan, Russo, Conway mashup. And yes. It was another misfire in the same vein as Abyss-A-Mania, Nature Boy Styles, etc

Was Conway already working there ? Anyway, yeah, the fact they mix it up with Fortune is ridiculous, leaving the babyface side totally dead, although I must say the Matt Morgan turn is actually pretty smart. Abyss-A-Mania reeks of WCW 1995. Abyss can be a decent worker still at this point (although he never has matches like the one with AJ back in the mid-00's) but his character is a constant fuckery of terrible angles after terrible angles. How TNA fans weren't sick of him at this point, I dunno.

[El-P]

Well, yeah, sadly the streak didn't last, as the dirtsheet/Meltz bashing was incessant during a way overlong episode and it's unbearable. I dunno how even his biggest marks can find enjoyment in Bischoff saying the same thing over and over again. He makes a couple of good points, but it's buried into a sea of "dirtsheet blablabla" and other uninteresting stuff about Jason Hervey and stuff.