Has there ever been a better time to be a wrestling fan than right now?

[joeg]

This is something I've been thinking about a lot lately. I feel like we are living in a golden age for wrestling fans. Thanks in large part to technology and just the way the business has gone there is more wrestling available to us as a lower price point than ever before. In a given week, I'm able to watch weekly television from WWE, NXT, NJPW, ROH, CWF, OVW, MLW, CMLL, AAA, Lucha Underground, IWRG, and Impact. We are able to follow the G1 Climax and the Rush vs Park feud in real time. That is every single week, without trading for tapes or DVDs. When I was 13 years old ECW Hardcore TV and NWA Wildside got picked up in my area, I thought I'd hit the holy grail. Back when I really  got into wrestling in the late 90s, early 2000s, it was an expensive hobby that involved mailing fuzzy VHS tapes back and forth and spending a great deal of time and money to get what is now available to us for free in most cases or for $10 a month in others. Every major Japanese show back then I saw 3 to 6 months after it happened. I've talked with people a generation older than I am about being a fan in the late 70s/ early 80s. Their wrestling viewing was limited to however far the rabbit ears on their television could receive a signal. Even if you aren't a fan of the modern style, it is easier now to watch wrestling from the 70s and 80s than it was back in the 70s and 80s. Anyways thats my soapbox for the day.

[gordi]

I hear you, and I get whar you are saying and it is true... but I just heard that Jim Neidhardt died, in the wake of so many other recent deaths... being a pro wrestling fan is making me sad right now. It is strange timing reading your thread title today. 

[joeg]

Just saw that on my phone after I posted.... makes it 6 deaths in as many weeks. Awful. 

[El-P]

42 minutes ago, joeg said:

This is something I've been thinking about a lot lately. I feel like we are living in a golden age for wrestling fans.

Agreed. Although tastes may vary, but the sheer availability of content is ridiculous.

[Loss]

I don't think it is. There's a sameness that permeates most great wrestling and there are almost no great promos or angles, really. Fans don't react the "right" way to babyfaces or seem emotionally invested in wins and losses, which makes for a jarring presentation. There are positives but I think 1992-1997 was better for quality, variety, and booking.

[El-P]

10 minutes ago, Charles (Loss) said:

There's a sameness that permeates most great wrestling and there are almost no great promos or angles, really. Fans don't react the "right" way to babyfaces or seem emotionally invested in wins and losses, which makes for a jarring presentation.

You haven't gone trough the G1 apparently. Tons of great matches in different styles (dangerous offensive orgies, submission based stuff, brawls, injured underdogs fighting from underneath, mix comedy at times), great booking all around, intricate storytelling, tons of heat for heels, genuine emotion. Yeah, WWE sucks, but pro-wrestling isn't WWE.

[Loss]

I haven't gone through the G1. Maybe I'll be surprised, but I have seen people I trust comment on how it's been a chore to watch the shows because of the sameness to the big matches, which is definitely something that rings true whenever I watch wrestling from most places. NJPW may be on a roll, but pro wrestling isn't NJPW either, so it goes both ways. Is anyone arguing any other companies anywhere in the world having their best runs in history?

[fxnj]

For me this boils down to how much you value the live experience. Would you give up the opportunity to have easy access to all this taped footage for the opportunity to go back in time and be apart of the crowds for the best matches ever? I probably would because I tend to think of watching footage on TV or on Youtube as a second-rate thing to getting the full live experience. NJPW of today gets a good rep because it's an improvement over 2000's NJPW, but if you go back and watch the footage it can't compare to 90's and definitely not the 80's in terms of atmosphere, crowd investment, or even ring work. Best time for me probably be 90's Japan as not only do you get to see the best matches from AJPW and shoot-style, but there's just so much excitement back then from how the art form was getting pushed in bold and new directions, and you can feel when you look at the crowds in the matches from back then. There's really no comparison to the stuff of today now that everyone's seen everything and wants to be meta.

[Loss]

Probably another topic, but I view wrestling most importantly as a television medium, not a live medium, and that probably fuels a good amount of the disconnect on this issue (and others, for that matter). I should flesh that out at some point, but view obstruction that leads to me just watching the monitor in a crowded venue instead of at home has been my live experience more than it hasn't. I also don't think being part of something happening right now is particularly important. If you've never seen it and it happened 50 years ago, it's new because it's new to you.

[joeg]

I'd say that I'd have NXT's weekly TV show right now in my top 5 weekly wrestling shows. I'd put NJPW on AXS and CMLL's Friday night stream in the top 10. I don't think one could argue NJPW is having its best run, 96 at the height of UWFi invasion was better. As was 83 at the height of Tiger Mask's popularity and the peak of the Choshu Fujinami feud. As while I'm not the person to ask about lucha, I'm sure CMLL at the height of Santo vs Casas in 96/97 was better than it is now. The main difference is that currently its more accessible to watch much of the great stuff from the 90s than it was in the 90s. For a large chunk of the 90s WWF and WCW were pretty dreadful. And that was all we had access to.

[Loss]

I agree the technology is a huge factor for sure.

[El-P]

Easy access to archives also plays a part (anyone who ever paid 20$ plus S&H overseas for a 2 hour tapes 6 month after the fact should understand that). But I dunno. I kinda got bored of watching ghosts after a while. The idea that I could go to the Dome Show next year and actually be part of a super fun night of pro-wrestling is more appealing to me at this point than waxing romantics about the "good old days", especially since the more we go, the seedier the "good old days" look (and let's be real, most of the stuff during the "good old days" was crap too, the undercards of any US territory were quite pathetic).

[Matt D]

I liked two years ago better.

[Loss]

There's always bad wrestling. I don't dispute that. But if we're comparing best to best, there are things missing. A great shootstyle company (which I realize would be much harder to pull off now). Traditional American, British, and lucha libre wrestling, all of which I think can co-exist with new and exciting things. I don't romanticize the territory days either. The best matches are great and the best promos outclass anything today, but there's a lot of crap. I think the baseline for bad stuff has been raised in some ways, but if the worst wrestling of the past was guys like George "The Animal" Steele doing big oaf gimmicks while doing nothing in the ring, the worst today is "yay-boo" forearm exchanges, spots on the ring apron, and pop-up reactions to big moves followed by delayed selling. The bad stuff was at least better separated from the good stuff in the past, I guess, as those current annoyances can even find their way into otherwise great matches.

[El-P]

13 minutes ago, Charles (Loss) said:

The bad stuff was at least better separated from the good stuff in the past, I guess, as those current annoyances can even find their way into otherwise great matches.

That is a valid point, although one could argue other kind of bad stuff was creeping up in otherwise great matches too before, only different kind of bad stuff (bad stuff that never passed as "good"). The end result was the same to me though, those matches ended up being "not so great" because of it. But the legit great stuff of today absolutely measures up to any period, and hell, I've said it before, some of the legit greatest matches that I've ever seen over the course of 30 years or pro-wrestling fandom happened in NJ in the last 2 years (and I'm not an easy watcher as far as throwing the "great" label, I wouldn't say I've seen as much as 10 ***** (the old scale  ) matches ever).

[KawadaSmile]

I would have to say "yes" and "no" to the questin the thread proposes. Yes, it is an amazing time because you have a ton of wrestling to watch, with relative easy access to it. Technology makes us not only be aware of the on-going wrestling scene but also aware of what happened in the past, so we can watch footage of some matches that are over a decade old. There's something for everyone.

However, I'd argue that technology also brought some very undesirable things - people can just talk so much shit online, and considering that's where the majority of things are, it is nearly impossible to avoid idiotic fans saying the most horrible things, and at points it kind of tunes me out from what is happening. It is one thing to say that other people's behavior shouldn't affect your enjoyment of anything, but at the same time, there is just so much negativity one can take, and it is getting harder and harder to filter.

[El-P]

1 minute ago, KawadaSmile said:

However, I'd argue that technology also brought some very undesirable things - people can just talk so much shit online, and considering that's where the majority of things are, it is nearly impossible to avoid idiotic fans saying the most horrible things, and at points it kind of tunes me out from what is happening. It is one thing to say that other people's behavior shouldn't affect your enjoyment of anything, but at the same time, there is just so much negativity one can take, and it is getting harder and harder to filter.

That's true of society in general though. Social media are a cesspool because the human stupidity and hatred can now express itself openly for the entire world to see. It's usually absolutely depressing to spend more than 2 minutes reading comments on Youtube or FB.

[Coffey]

WWE Network alone has completely changed my fandom. Being able to put on any show I want, whenever I want is crazy. I distinctly recall when I was growing up putting on "scramblevision" just to listen to the shows that I could afford to order on PPV. Now WWE Network is ALL of the PPVs for $10/mo. and if you want, you basically always get WWE Network for free with free trials & different e-mails & whatnot. It's crazy.

Just today after Jim Neidhart passed, someone mentioned the tag match of The Hart Foundation Vs. The Brainbusters from SummerSlam 1989. In less than a minute, I went to the WWE Network, went to the show & started that match. It's crazy to be able to do that.

My newest kick is pro-wrestling action figures. I still own a few of the old Hasbro figures. I just found a bunch of Puroresu figures though that I'm super jealous of. I might look into getting some of them. I was looking for Stan Hansen & Terry Funk figures is how I stumbled upon them. Who knew that Great Muta & Antonio Inoki had so many toys!? Really cool.

[Matt D]

37 minutes ago, Matt D said:

I liked two years ago better.

Apparently, it's 2.5 years ago I liked better!

https://forums.prowrestlingonly.com/topic/32062-blessed-times/

[KawadaSmile]

5 minutes ago, El-P said:

That's true of society in general though. Social media are a cesspool because the human stupidity and hatred can now express itself openly for the entire world to see. It's usually absolutely depressing to spend more than 2 minutes reading comments on Youtube or FB.

That is indeed true. For the better and for the worse, pro wrestling is a Very Much Online form of entertainment. Somehow it seems even worse, because it is not uncommon to have death threats to family members of performers, or accusations of sexual favors, even though they are just doing their job. Nasty, nasty stuff.

[Loss]

This stuff always happened  but took on a different form in the past. Wrestlers used to get stabbed  and get their transportation destroyed fighting their way back to the dressing room or out of the building. Now they get trolled online.

[dawho5]

22 minutes ago, Charles (Loss) said:

This stuff always happened  but took on a different form in the past. Wrestlers used to get stabbed  and get their transportation destroyed fighting their way back to the dressing room or out of the building. Now they get trolled online.

I would call this a good thing.  I think we can deal with people trolling online far more easily than mobs attacking wrestlers after a show.  Yes, the culture is toxic, but at least it's not violent and extremely unsafe.

As for the original question, the technology and availability of footage is absolutely amazing.  I haven't been able to watch modern wrestling for quite a while due to a lot of the tropes that drive me insane, but the ability to watch so much wrestling that I do love is great.  It is my hope that traditional wrestling makes a comeback at some point in a form far less toxic than the way the territories were run.

[Loss]

I would agree that it's a good thing. The worst elements of society have always had a platform, even if the one they have now is easier, which was the point I was trying to make. Much like it was always possible to keep up with wrestling everywhere and watch it all whenever you wanted, but it's never been this easy.

[Cap]

I would have to say no. This really is a high point. I agree that there is some sameness to a lot of the wrestling that exists and so much of what we watched is designed to be watched in a vacuum (at least in part because... well... there is too much to watch). We live in a very match-centric time which comes with its own pros and cons. Some of it is a matter of taste and expectation but there is an odd narrowness to wrestling in 2018 given just how vast the landscape is right now. However, at the same time we have access to old wrestling in a way we have never had, so with the exception of the most well versed wrestling historians there is probably something more story-line driven or unique and new (to you) that one can find out there to scratch whatever wresting itch the modern product is giving you Sure, if we are talking just about what is being produced right now, there are massive limitations, but if you are thinking about all we have access too and what would constitute new wrestling to the average fan, the diversity of wrestling we have at this moment is in another stratosphere. Watching reruns might not be quite the same as keeping up with what is going on right now, but if I can watch Start Trek TNG or the original X Files run and enjoy it I am not sure why wrestling should be any different.

[SirEdger]

1 hour ago, Coffey said:

WWE Network alone has completely changed my fandom. Being able to put on any show I want, whenever I want is crazy. I distinctly recall when I was growing up putting on "scramblevision" just to listen to the shows that I could afford to order on PPV. Now WWE Network is ALL of the PPVs for $10/mo. and if you want, you basically always get WWE Network for free with free trials & different e-mails & whatnot. It's crazy.

Just today after Jim Neidhart passed, someone mentioned the tag match of The Hart Foundation Vs. The Brainbusters from SummerSlam 1989. In less than a minute, I went to the WWE Network, went to the show & started that match. It's crazy to be able to do that.

My newest kick is pro-wrestling action figures. I still own a few of the old Hasbro figures. I just found a bunch of Puroresu figures though that I'm super jealous of. I might look into getting some of them. I was looking for Stan Hansen & Terry Funk figures is how I stumbled upon them. Who knew that Great Muta & Antonio Inoki had so many toys!? Really cool.

I'm actually thinking myself about starting a new wrestling action figures but those I find online are ridiculously expensive for some.