Loss Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Serious question. I was trying to think of a promotion that has ever been worse and was struggling. Relatively major league promotions (meaning some type of TV or at least plenty of available footage) would be the criteria for competition. I'd take WCW 2000, which was a horrible year of wrestling for the most part, over any 12-month period of TNA. This is totally non-trolling. I'm just trying to think of a wrestling company -- ever -- that was definitely worse than TNA has been for their entire existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 The contenders: - WCW 2000 had some vastly entertaining B-shows. - GLOW wasn't really supposed to be any sort of serious wrestling. - Herb Abrams' UWF had some decent stuff on and off w/ Doc, Gordy, Cactus, etc. - Florida in '87 was a huge decline from the glory years, but you still had good stuff w/ guys like the Sheepherders and Bad News Allen. - XPW had good stuff sprinkled throughout the card during its whole run and was perfectly fine for its last several months. - ECW in 2000 had Tajiri-Psicosis, the tag tournament, and Chris Hamrick. - The AWF didn't last long and had some decent stuff w/ Adams, Tito, & Orton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Cooke Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 For however bad WCW was in 2000, they still had: - TV (Nitro, Thunder, SN [until April], Worldwide) - Touring Arenas - Actual audience and crowds (even if they were falling rapidly from previous years) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuttsy Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 AWF is the only one that even comes close in my opinion, but, ultimately I'd give the nod to TNA. TNA has squandered every single potential break the company has had and blown every potential lead to gain ground. Some of them have been so gloriously botched that cash cows never produced a dime. TNA is basically a bunch of teenagers throwing a party with someone else's money while the parents are away. Any time they started to gain momentum (I thought for instance that the summer shows were pretty hot for the most part) they almost immediately do something to fuck it up. They're just...inept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 I'd wager that ECW from around the time they got on TNN to the end was pretty terrible. Guys were leaving left and right resulting in pretty much company loyalists and jobbers at the end feuding for titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuttsy Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 But at least you knew who the champions were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Perhaps AWA 1990 should rank up there as well. A better question, what was the worst promotion that wasn't on its last legs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Perhaps AWA 1990 should rank up there as well. For real. Team Challenge Series in the Pink Room O' Doom trumps all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Evil Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 Serious question. I was trying to think of a promotion that has ever been worse and was struggling. Relatively major league promotions (meaning some type of TV or at least plenty of available footage) would be the criteria for competition. I'd take WCW 2000, which was a horrible year of wrestling for the most part, over any 12-month period of TNA. This is totally non-trolling. I'm just trying to think of a wrestling company -- ever -- that was definitely worse than TNA has been for their entire existence. I assume the original question is not talking about business so much as it is personal taste? For me, my worst wrestling promotion in history is the WWF Attitude era in the late 90s. By far, and it's not even close. I hated that era. In every single way possible. I could write an essay about this but I hate it so much I can't stand wasting that much time on it. WWF Attitude Get it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 The really bad Russoed up Attitude stuff was barely a year though, as some good stuff was still happening until he really went full tilt around Survivor Series '98. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boondocks Kernoodle Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 I thought TNA was fairly good in 2005. In an incredible coincidence this was (I believe) the only year in which Russo was not involved with the promotion at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boondocks Kernoodle Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 As opposed to tonight's PPV, which featured Christy Hemme vs A Fat Dude In A Thong in a tuxedo match. Worst promotion ever? I'm having trouble saying no! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheShawshankRudotion Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 Herb Abrams' UWF was bad. WOW was bad. I haven't seen a whole lot of it, mainly because it is so goddamn awful that it's unbearable, but this Memphis television with Lawler, Fat Jonathan Coachman, Jimmy Hart, as it's hosts, and for some reason Mabel as their big star is pretty bad as well. TNA managed to have a period of very strong PPVs which is a plus for them. Thoughout their entire history they've had enough positives to not make them a total failure. Though the bad certainly outweighs the good and I'd rather, at this point in time, drink stomach acid than watch their shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 I actually liked WOW in a non-ironic fashion. Aside from the goofy gimmicks, the booking was solid and logical. The women were mostly very, very green, but it was fun to see some of them grow into decent wrestlers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 Uh, I actually kind of liked Abrams shows. Not that they were good, but they were unoffensive and an interesting place to see some of the "stars" work in. I haven't watched any of the stuff I have on tape in a long time (I have a couple of commercial releases IIRC), but I seem to remember thinking they were solid. TNA has managed to kill Joe, turn their "serious wrestling" division into an extended comedy angle with a washed up star who can't get into a ring without coming up broken, and destroy LAX which was maybe the only culturally relevant, interesting gimmick in mainstream wrestling. My wife watched Impact with me last night and we couldn't decipher what the hell was intended as a comedy segment and what wasn't. Bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 I'm not sure. I don't actually see the show, but from the looks of the results, it seems an absolutely abysmal show. They have the talent, but the booking is beyond horrible. At the same time, I have about five PPV's from them in 2005, and all of them are really solid, certainly nothing too awful, and some really good stuff, like a couple of fantastic Joe/Styles matches. Joe was being booked great back then, and had maintained his aura. They really should have had him steamroller through the heavyweight division and taken the belt of Jarrett. Instead, he was pushed aside in favour of new 'stars' from WWE, and lost his unbeaten streak to Angle, a guy who totally didn't need it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Cooke Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 At least for the Attitude era, you had strong numbers, very over wrestlers, and hot crowds. TNA has never had any of these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lennie Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 I can't believe XPW has only gotten like one mention in this thread. I think MLW probably deserves an honorable mention as well. Look, I agree TNA sucks, but how can a promotion that has at least a few match MOTYCs possibly be the "worst wrestling promotion in history"? I couldn't make myself watch a whole show, but I've certainly tracked down some matches here and there. The saddest thing to me about TNA is the incredible potential that they have continued to piss away month after month. Look at the roster: they have Low Ki, Joe, A.J., Homicide, Ares, Sabin, Shelley, Daniels, Petey, Lynn, Abyss, and so many others I'm forgetting. And they put on a weekly show that I'm only watching in fast forward to catch the Kevin Nash promos? It's sad, the national TV deal has only made things worse. It's pretty easy to make a case for TNA having the most wasted potential in the history of pro wrestling promotions. Harder to argue that they're the "worst," but yeah, they're pretty bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Cooke Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 I haven't seen anything from TNA that I would give a second look at, possibly the 12/05 Styles/Joe match. MLW and XPW never had as large of TV as TNA has either, though I guess that is not what we are arguing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 XPW versus TNA is definitely intriguing as far as which was worse. I'm not sure how I feel about that, as I don't think I ever saw more than 5 seconds of XPW. But they did have Juventud Guerrera, who is either very awesome or the most entertaining trainwreck ever at all times. I'm curious which Juvi showed up in XPW. I guess the main point from this thread was that it's really hard to come up with promotions (or eras of promotions) that are inarguably worse. As far as the worst years of promotions not on their last legs, I think WWF's worst years are 1995, 1999 and 2002. 1999 was a successful year that showed that Austin and Rock were hot enough to draw in any environment - no matter how horrible it was. 1995 was a low period financially, but there were plenty of good matches. 2002 had way too many missed opportunities, buried a lot of guys with potential and stayed in panic mode for no reason all year long, but also had plenty of good matches and good shows. WCW was pretty consistently inconsistent. The wrestling was always really good, and they probably had a better roster than the WWF (star power and talent) for most of their entire existence until the Rads departed in 2000. It's hard to pick a worst year outside of 2000, because WCW produced tons of good stuff despite shooting themselves in the foot all the time. 1999 was probably the worst, just because I don't think I've ever seen as many heat-sinking main eventers in a major league company at one time feuding with each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 I don't know if TNA is the "worst". I do think they've pissed off more money to do less than any promotion. Some might say that Abram's UWF or the AWF or some of the other fly-by-nights did even less, so their pissing away money was a bigger waste. But TNA has pissed away a shitload of money basically to get on PPV and now on TV and really have nothing to show for it. For most of the history of the promotion that money was simply to fund an egofuck for Jeffey. Since they moved a bit away from being Non-Stop Jarrett, things having gotten any better on ROI. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuttsy Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 Look, I agree TNA sucks, but how can a promotion that has at least a few match MOTYCs possibly be the "worst wrestling promotion in history"? I couldn't make myself watch a whole show, but I've certainly tracked down some matches here and there. Bottom lines are way more fundamentally important in wrestling than how many snowflakes Elix Skipper's dumb ass gets. TNA's bottom line financial stats are dreadful. They're only alive because someone is willing to keep pumping money into it, presumably because they're being snowed into thinking it eventually will actually turn a profit. It won't, they'll pull the plug, no more reverse battle royals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 I find it hilarious how apparently Jarrett would whine about how they had a big roster overlap with ROH yet didn't get the praise ROH did. Then the thing last night where their parody of stupid WWE booking has become their own stupid booking and it gives me a headache and I have to stop posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 WCW was a money pit for years too, but they also had periods of putting out plenty of good stuff, and did show at times that they could start a storyline, build it to a climax and then end it. I'm not sure that in five years, TNA has successfully executed a storyline from start to finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 I think there has to be a distinction between on-air product and business model. If you want to say a company was the worst from a business perspective, it would be WCW in 1999 and 2000 when they lost tens of millions of dollars or ECW that couldn't pay its workers for the last year and a half on a consistent basis. From a television standpoint, it was absolutely dreadful sitting through Nitro in the Russo era... about as painful as it is sitting through TNA in the Russo era. I have also never been a fan of ECW TV from 1997-end. All that magic Paul E. created in the early years was gone. From a match quality standpoint, that is subjecive since the X Division has always received a bunch of praise... except (surprise, surprise) when Russo was booking. The 2005 shows were generally praised as a whole from Meltz and on the net. In 2006, I have more matches on my 2006 MOTYC set than on the 2005 set and I didn't select any of the matches either. I think John's statement about sums up TNA. A company with a buttload of potential that has pissed a shitload of money away. Also, XPW is the worst promotion I have ever watched... just abysmal, Juvi or no Juvi. Whoever said MLW may have a strong case as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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