All Elite Wrestling

[flyonthewall2983]

I heard that Meltzer just said more than 10 WWE employees now want to leave, including some names that would shock everyone. 

I have to think that for their debut on TNT, they will bring out someone that makes the Moxley debut look like a drop in the bucket. 

[Steve T]

6 minutes ago, flyonthewall2983 said:

I heard that Meltzer just said more than 10 WWE employees now want to leave, including some names that would shock everyone. 

I have to think that for their debut on TNT, they will bring out someone that makes the Moxley debut look like a drop in the bucket. 

I don't follow WWE super close other than my yearly WrestleMania trip but who would be shocking other than Brock, or a McMahon.  I would love to see Daniel Bryan in AEW but it wouldn't shock me, same for Becky, Rollins, Reigns, etc. 

[El-P]

Rusev and Lana probably are waiting for their contract to run out at this point.

[SirEdger]

19 minutes ago, flyonthewall2983 said:

I heard that Meltzer just said more than 10 WWE employees now want to leave, including some names that would shock everyone. 

I have to think that for their debut on TNT, they will bring out someone that makes the Moxley debut look like a drop in the bucket. 

Unless any of those +10 employees contract run out before they debut on TNT, they're not gonna show up. Vince won't release anybody that could be AEW's Lex Luger for their premiere episode.

Speaking of premiere episode, rumor is that a TNT ad online announced the premiere for October 29. Anyone else seen or read that?

[C.S.]

The mentally ill man-child Jim Cornette called Sonny Kiss a "transvestite" and railed against the usual suspects you'd expect (Omega, Bucks, etc.) when discussing Double or Nothing on his podcast.

Attitudes like this, and carnies like Jim, have kept wrestling in the dark ages. I hope AEW speaks out strongly at least against what Corny said about Kiss. 

PWO's very own @rovert posted some Reddit transcript links on Twitter, if you're so inclined - although how I saw them is a mystery to me, as I don't think I'm one of his followers. Maybe he replied to someone I am following? Who knows... But they're there if you want to look for them.

[fakeplastictrees]

Employees or contractors? Serious question. I'd be shocked if CFO left. JJ has already reached peak carny levels, so I highly doubt he is leaving and already has a job waiting for him in AEW. Dutt, Diavari, Abyss, Pearce, TJ, and others are pretty much locked in. Ryan Ward would be a shocker, but I can't think of anyone else. 

[Mad Dog]

20 minutes ago, C.S. said:

The mentally ill man-child Jim Cornette called Sonny Kiss a "transvestite" and railed against the usual suspects you'd expect (Omega, Bucks, etc.) when discussing Double or Nothing on his podcast.

Attitudes like this, and carnies like Jim, have kept wrestling in the dark ages. I hope AEW speaks out strongly at least against what Corny said about Kiss. 

PWO's very own @rovert posted some Reddit transcript links on Twitter, if you're so inclined - although how I saw them is a mystery to me, as I don't think I'm one of his followers. Maybe he replied to someone I am following? Who knows... But they're there if you want to look for them.

He completely skipped the joshi match for some reason. I thought he was more positive on the show than I expected. I think he would have actually been more positive but Brian Last would always interrupt him and derail his thought process when he was saying more good things about it.

[sek69]

Wasn't one of the women in the match the little girl Omega wrestled years ago? That might have been the reason. I'd like to think even Cornette would enjoy watching Aja Kong killing fools though. 

[joeg]

14 minutes ago, C.S. said:

The mentally ill man-child Jim Cornette called Sonny Kiss a "transvestite" and railed against the usual suspects you'd expect (Omega, Bucks, etc.) when discussing Double or Nothing on his podcast.

Attitudes like this, and carnies like Jim, have kept wrestling in the dark ages. I hope AEW speaks out strongly at least against what Corny said about Kiss. 

PWO's very own @rovert posted some Reddit transcript links on Twitter, if you're so inclined - although how I saw them is a mystery to me, as I don't think I'm one of his followers. Maybe he replied to someone I am following? Who knows... But they're there if you want to look for them.

I'm about halfway through it, Cornette basically has the same criticisms people here have said about the show. I didn't catch him say "transvestite" but a comment like that wouldn't stand out in the midst of him colorfully and hilariously shitting on every garbage indie guy on the show. And AEW speaking out would just be getting down in the muck with the worlds greatest mud slinger so that's not a good idea. It would be a good idea to just stay above the Jim Cornettes and not give him a spotlight. 

[Mad Dog]

7 minutes ago, sek69 said:

Wasn't one of the women in the match the little girl Omega wrestled years ago? That might have been the reason. I'd like to think even Cornette would enjoy watching Aja Kong killing fools though. 

It was weird because he was reading off of notes. I don't know if it was intentional or not. It was almost like 5 minutes were missing.

[flyonthewall2983]

1 hour ago, SirEdger said:

Speaking of premiere episode, rumor is that a TNT ad online announced the premiere for October 29. Anyone else seen or read that?

That would be awesome, because it's my birthday

[C.S.]

I don't think anyone cares if Cornette hates Omega, the Bucks, the entire show (which he didn't), etc. Being woefully out of touch is kind of his thing. But when his known bigotry gets brought into it, that's where it becomes a problem. 

[El-P]

39 minutes ago, C.S. said:

The mentally ill man-child Jim Cornette called Sonny Kiss a "transvestite" and railed against the usual suspects you'd expect (Omega, Bucks, etc.) when discussing Double or Nothing on his podcast.

Attitudes like this, and carnies like Jim, have kept wrestling in the dark ages.

As much as I enjoy Corny as a historian, storyteller and announcer on MLW, I agree. It's sad he can't come to grips with reality. Yeah, he's still pissed at the Bucks because them superkicking that kid and at Omega for working that match with that girl. Speaking of which : 

15 minutes ago, sek69 said:

Wasn't one of the women in the match the little girl Omega wrestled years ago? 

Wow, that would be awesome.

But anyway, I would not expect much better from Corny at this point, which is pretty disappointing.

[C.S.]

The Double or Nothing thread was moving almost as rapidly as the show itself, so I guess everyone missed my post.

On 5/25/2019 at 9:28 PM, C.S. said:

So, Riho was apparently the 9-year-old girl Kenny Omega wrestled in the match that Jim Cornette always blows a gasket over. 

 

[Mad Dog]

I actually though Cornette was generally okay with his review but I thought Brian Last was being a try hard as he usually is with the modern stuff.

[joeg]

1 minute ago, C.S. said:

I don't think anyone cares if Cornette hates Omega, the Bucks, the entire show (which he didn't), etc. Being woefully out of touch is kind of his thing. But when his known bigotry gets brought into it, that's where it becomes a problem. 

But I don't really think he's a bigot. Is he intentionally provocative to get attention? Yeah absolutely. Does he use terms that are currently pejorative? Yeah occasionally. Is he bigotted? No not really.  

[Laz]

Haruka Kato was the girl Omega wrestled, not Riho

[C.S.]

15 minutes ago, joeg said:

 But I don't really think he's a bigot. Is he intentionally provocative to get attention? Yeah absolutely. Does he use terms that are currently pejorative? Yeah occasionally. Is he bigotted? No not really.  

His previous racially charged Islamophobic rant about Muslims says otherwise.

Transcript here: https://www.cagesideseats.com/cageside-seats-features/2015/12/19/10625820/jim-cornettes-islamophobic-views-have-no-place-in-wrestling

He's a straight up bigoted piece of shit. 

That doesn't mean he still wasn't awesome in 1987 or whenever managing the Midnight Express. Hold on to those fond memories, but don't let them blind you to who and what he really is.

7 minutes ago, Laz said:

Haruka Kato was the girl Omega wrestled, not Riho

Explains why the commentators never mentioned the connection - because there wasn't one. 

[cm funk]

Yeah, I don't think he's a bigot, but he's definitely not PC

I was reading the Time magazine article on Liz Warren and they quoted a retired teacher after seeing her at a town hall saying, "She was such a doll" then following it up with, "can I say that?"

We live in a world where an older man has to question himself when using a term of endearment like "doll" because it might now be considered offensive by the PC thought police.  An old guy like Corny doesn't stand a chance, but if you listen to him rant about politics he's super liberal and F'n hates all the MAGA folks, hicks, racists and religious right

[sek69]

Term of endearment is in the eye of the beholder though. It's not "PC thought police" to consider what effect your words have on others, it's being a considerate human being. I get called things like "honey" and "sweetie" at my job sometimes and it's weird (and I'm a dude). It's using a term that implies endearment or closeness, and  when there isn't any it comes off as weird and/or creepy.  At least stuff like that can be explained away as a generational difference (it seems to be nearly always older folks who use terms like that). Getting into anything homophobic/transphobic is 100% STFU territory. 

[C.S.]

Pretty sad to see the apologists in here because they have fond childhood memories of Cornette falling off a scaffold like an idiot.

Bigotry is not okay. Homophobia is not okay. Transphobia is not okay. Being a "super liberal" doesn't mean he can't also be a bigot. (Besides, Jim admitted that he was completely clueless about politics during his career because he was stuck inside the wrestling bubble for 30+ years, so let's not pretend he's a seasoned political analyst now!)

There's a big difference between this and the "generational differences" you guys are excusing Corny with. I agree that the "PC police" has run amok, to a certain extent, but that's not what this is. Not even close. Come on, guys!

[joeg]

CS, before debating further with you, I've got to ask, how old are you? Because I find when talking to people currently in college or recently out of college about this sort of stuff there is no room for nuance, or motive, or understanding of generational differences. Somebody who rants against Islam must be Islamaphobic, it can't be more complex in that the person finds all organized religion abhorrent and has detailed critiques of why they believe religion is inherently evil.  Cornette's ramblings are no different than the opinions that you would hear from Bill Maher or Christopher Hitchens on the topic of religion and Islam.  Somebody who uses the word "transvestite" instead of "cross dresser" (or whatever is the appropriate PC term at this moment) must hate people of different gender identities and people of different sexual orientations. He can't just be cracking a series of jokes about every wrestler in that dumpster fire of a battle royal Saturday. 

 

All in all, I find Cornette to be very knowledgeable about wrestling. He also has strong opinions, doesn't give a fuck if he offends people, and refuses to change with the times. All of which make him interesting to listen to. 

[PeteF3]

The weirdest criticism of all wasn't any of the above...it was the idea of a woman officiating a match somehow ruins the "danger." I could see where he was coming from on almost everything else he said, but that was just plain bizarre.

Wonder how he'd process Kim Winslow officiating UFC heavyweight fights, or Sarah Thomas officiating NFL games.

[C.S.]

2 hours ago, joeg said:

CS, before debating further with you, I've got to ask, how old are you? Because I find when talking to people currently in college or recently out of college about this sort of stuff there is no room for nuance, or motive, or understanding of generational differences. Somebody who rants against Islam must be Islamaphobic, it can't be more complex in that the person finds all organized religion abhorrent and has detailed critiques of why they believe religion is inherently evil.  Cornette's ramblings are no different than the opinions that you would hear from Bill Maher or Christopher Hitchens on the topic of religion and Islam.  Somebody who uses the word "transvestite" instead of "cross dresser" (or whatever is the appropriate PC term at this moment) must hate people of different gender identities and people of different sexual orientations. He can't just be cracking a series of jokes about every wrestler in that dumpster fire of a battle royal Saturday.  

I'm way older than college age, but I appreciate that you've noticed my youthful vigor.  Seriously though, while I can certainly echo your frustration with the lack of nuance among that age group, that's absolutely not what's happening here and I think you know that deep down inside. 

Words matter. I doubt it's a joke to Sonny Kiss, who has probably been called that and far worse, discriminated against, etc. Now imagine it coming from one of the most revered wrestling personalities of all time and someone you grew up watching and idolized as a child. That has to suck for Sonny and any other LGBTQ+ wrestlers and fans. It has to suck for Muslim wrestlers and fans. It sucks, period. 

I have no idea why you brought up Maher (who seems like a jackass himself, but I'd be lying if I said I was overly familiar with him) or Hitchens (who I'm not familiar with at all, other than knowing who he is). 

Quote

All in all, I find Cornette to be very knowledgeable about wrestling. He also has strong opinions, doesn't give a fuck if he offends people, and refuses to change with the times. All of which make him interesting to listen to. 

And there we have it - exactly what I was saying above about the classic rasslin' bubble apologist. "He entertains me at the rasslin', so I'm okay with his bullshit." Seriously, you don't realize how completely tone deaf this sounds?! 

Look, Jim Cornette is an entertaining wrestling personality, historian, etc., and it's okay to say you enjoy him for those reasons - we all do. He's also made several questionable and downright bigoted comments, and it's also okay - more than okay, in fact - to be critical of those things. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive.

No one is telling you to give up his podcast or old Midnight Express matches. The sad fact about wrestling is that we'd all have very little to watch if we started going down that road. While I am personally not interested in anything Cornette says or does anymore, I do acknowledge that the line will be different for everyone.

1 hour ago, PeteF3 said:

The weirdest criticism of all wasn't any of the above...it was the idea of a woman officiating a match somehow ruins the "danger." I could see where he was coming from on almost everything else he said, but that was just plain bizarre.

Wonder how he'd process Kim Winslow officiating UFC heavyweight fights, or Sarah Thomas officiating NFL games.

While I don't really agree, my guess is that he's thinking in terms of ref bumps, which really don't work with large men and a small woman. Intergender matches are one thing - whether you like them or not, you can at least rationalize, "okay, they're both trained wrestlers and athletes" - but a wrestler and ref have different roles and functions. Ref bumps are outdated cheesy '80s bullshit anyway though, so if having female refs means a lot less of those lazy finishes seeping into the booking because a "girl" is in there, then I hope we get even more female refs in the future.

[rovert]

I get whole being jaded/beaten down by PC culture thing but Aubrey Edwards is actually the best or one of the best referees regardless of gender. A lot of the posters here are very astute fans. My advice is just and make up your own mind. She has quick reflexes in terms of getting up and down off the mat to make counts and general troubleshooting and not taking any bullshit from the heel. Several AEW roster members/touring indie stars have told me Aubrey is the best referee they deal with.