WON awards front-runners for the first half of the year

[Bix]

What Bix said. People just aren't going to buy a PPV every five seconds at several million dollars a pop, even if it's a heel John Cena chasing the title held by Jesus Christ.

I believe the main event is directly assiocated with the success of a company. He carries the weight of the company. No one pays to see the midcard guys, so if the numbers are down, regardless of poor booking, the main guy is at fault. Just my opinion.

Do you honestly think it would be possible for WWE to increase PPV buys substantially when they run SIXTEEN TIMES A YEAR AT $40 A SHOW?

 

The big four will always do well, but with their current pricing & scheduling, how the hell do you expect them to do something like 200,000-250,000 buys domestically for every show?

[Loss]

Cena turning heel for a feud with HHH would be a waste, because HHH's best days are behind him. Someone new coming along and getting over at that level would be worth turning him, but no rehashes of guys who are already made. The guy who finally gives the Cena haters what they've been wanting should be someone who will basically have a career made off of it, because it's a big deal.

 

Unfortunately, WWE is stuck with guys like Carlito and Kennedy who don't really have anything going for them, but would ideally be the types that would benefit from it. In Kennedy's case, once he says his name, you've seen all he can do, and in Carlito's case, he's the worst wrestler in the world (I would almost go as far to say that he's my least favorite wrestler to ever be on television -- ever) and probably shouldn't be anywhere near even developmental, but somehow he's rubbing shoulders with main event guys. He has slightly better hair than Prince Iaukea, but is probably less over and worse in the ring.

 

I think there's potential in an Orton/Cena heel tag team at some point, but Orton will obviously not be the guy to turn babyface and knock him off his pedestal. Lashley sucks. A Cena vs Jeff Hardy feud would probably be HUGE and push Jeff to the next level and allow Cena to turn heel, but Jeff can't seem to stay clean. I do like the idea of maybe starting a Cena/Jeff feud over something personal with Cena turning heel and Matt finally coming to his brother's aid from Smackdown, but could Matt work in that role? His chances of success at it are better than almost anyone's, but he still feels more like the best of what's left than just the best.

 

MVP is going to be a career heel, although I think MVP/Cena has tons of potential as a feud at some point. They'd probably play off of each other pretty well in and out of the ring.

 

When Jericho comes back, he'll be a big deal and could probably rally the crowd against Cena, but Jericho was shielded from the top for so long that I'm not even sure two years away from wrestling has been enough to make people forget about it, and I'm not sure the 37-year old Jericho is best for that spot anyway.

 

Michaels, HHH and Taker are Michaels, HHH and Taker. A Cena/Flair feud would be tons of fun, but Flair's not the guy for that spot. Misterio/Cena would be great and would draw well and produce great matches, and is probably the closest thing to a sure thing. But it still seems like a bad move.

 

Cena/Umaga would be fun with the roles reversed, but it's not really a long term feud to build around.

 

So, what direction could you go with Cena as a heel? All the options really seem like dead ends.

[Jingus]

in Carlito's case, he's the worst wrestler in the world (I would almost go as far to say that he's my least favorite wrestler to ever be on television -- ever) and probably shouldn't be anywhere near even developmental

Wow, that's some serious hate. Why? I used to despise the dude with a passion back when he first came in and his offense was 80% chinlock, but he did improve a hell of a lot since then. Not the best wrestler to ever walk the aisle, but definitely better than, say, former tag partner Chris Masters. Decent talker too.

[S.L.L.]

Jingus is right. I really don't buy that this is the case. Simply stating it as common sense doesn't make it so.

I meant anybody off this message board. go to any wrestling event, ask any mature male and they will tell you that they hate him. I'm not exaggerating.

No, you're lying or delusional. I really wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt, but it's obvious you don't really have anything of substance to add here outside of the usual anti-Cena talking points. Kudos on trying to disguise them behind the acknowledgment of his talent in-ring, but it's obvious you've still got some kind of axe to grind with him, because at this point you seem more interested in ignoring actual salient defenses of Cena in favor of spouting off wild, baseless speculation, worn-out, discredited talking points, and outright lies than you are in actually discussing Cena's merits as a draw.

 

Beat it kid. Ya bother me.

[Loss]

in Carlito's case, he's the worst wrestler in the world (I would almost go as far to say that he's my least favorite wrestler to ever be on television -- ever) and probably shouldn't be anywhere near even developmental

Wow, that's some serious hate. Why? I used to despise the dude with a passion back when he first came in and his offense was 80% chinlock, but he did improve a hell of a lot since then. Not the best wrestler to ever walk the aisle, but definitely better than, say, former tag partner Chris Masters. Decent talker too.

 

Masters has far more natural charisma than Carlito, who is like a $5 version of Razor Ramon and has never had a match that I thought even approached good. He was also incapable of making anything out of having Torrie Wilson as a valet and having a well-built program with Ric Flair.

 

Masters at least tries hard and is capable of being carried.

[Phil Schneider]

I really liked his PPV match with Flair, and thought he was fun in the most recent RAW tag, I don't watch RAW a ton, but I am not seeing the hate Loss. I would rather watch Carlito then Kennedy

[S.L.L.]

Carlito's one big problem with me at this point is that he plays the "cool/indifferent" gimmick in a way that just comes off as him being bored. If he can't care about what he's doing, why should I?

[Tim Evans]

Masters and Carlito are god awful. All Masters has is that stupid Masterlock and it's already been broken. Carlito has nothing. I liked him when he first came in with Jesus and feuding with Cena. Everything after that has been horrible.

 

As for guys Cena can feud with as Heel, Cena/Taker again would be good. The Feud of the future is Cena/Batista and Cena/Punk. Wrestlemania 24 should have Cena/Batista. If you asked me in December, I would say Cena should have turned heel. Now, they are so thin on healthy faces, He needs to be Face.

 

And to say it again, Master and Carlito are wrestling Abortions.

[sek69]

Call me crazy, but I think WWE could pull off a Cena-Kennedy double turn if they really put their minds to it. I know Kennedy's the guy all the cool kids are hating, but I watched him come up through OVW and there's something there if WWE decides to go balls-out with him.

[Tim Evans]

In cool kids, do you mean Alverez's empire? If so, That makes me like Kennedy even more.

[Guest Nathan]

I actually think Carlito's heel work is solid to actively good. Kennedy is probably my most hated guy right now with Shawn Michaels injured. His clubbing blows to the back resemble a temper tantrum and don't look effective at all. I can't think of any Kennedy offense that looks legitimate.

[anarchistxx]

Anyone else think Orton/Cena will draw huge numbers at Summerslam?

 

I've been watching some bits on You Tube and the feud looks red hot.

 

Will Orton win the title?

[kjh]

I'll be very surprised if SummerSlam drew huge numbers this year. It hasn't got a dream match main event like two years ago and the card isn't as stacked as it was last year. From what I can tell the Orton/Cena hype has been overshadowed by the who is Mr McMahon's illegitimate child angle. There also seems to be very little buzz for the returns of Triple H and Rey Mysterio. I understand the theory behind holding back their first appearances for the PPV will boost the buy rate, but in execution it has created two dull feuds with obvious outcomes.

 

I expect Orton to win the title, but only hold it for a short period, just like his last title reign. He'll probably lose to the same person as well.

[Guest *FH*]

I expect Orton to win the title, but only hold it for a short period, just like his last title reign. He'll probably lose to the same person as well.

To be fair, his last title reign was only done to erase Lesnar from the record books as the youngest world champion.

[tomk]

More adults watch the WWE than kids.

Why do you believe that?

 

Kids and women are great, but thats not the target audience.

Evidence of this would be?

 

Hes booed against faces why? Michaels and Lashley were subtle heels in the feuds/matches with Cena, and Cena was still booed, so its not a matter of a split crowd... the face opponents TRY to get him face reactions, BUT it doesnt work.

Examples of Michaels and Lashley trying to work suttle heel would be?

 

 

Not some average Joe marine dude who wins match, after match, after match...

Except again he doesn't win match after match after match. Go to Obsessed with wrestling. Take a look at his won loss record during title run vis a vis HBK and HHH's from same period. Cena isn't being booked is invincible.

 

was refering to 97, when he was booed as a green babyface, then they turned him heel and he became a mega star.

Rock was being booed as face, not drawing as face, not selling merchandise as face, etc.

Cena is getting cheers as face, drawing as a face, selling merchandise as a face.

 

Is there any reason to believe that the women and children who cheer him on, who he draws, who he sells merchandise to will continue to be drawn by Cena as a heel?

 

So Cena has opened up that market and he is booed by women hating wrestling fans who are upset that icky girls are now participating in what they thought was a form of entertainment that was constructed exclusively for them.

 

Yes you could have Cena start stealing the old Dudley gimmick and put women through tables and suddenly he'd get cheers from the guys who booed him before. But why alienate the new market they openend up?

 

It's working NOW,but there won't be any credible heels after Cena plows through them all in the future.

It was incredibly difficult to build credible secondary heels when HHH was burying them. Incredibly difficult to build credible faces when HHH was plowing through them.

 

One of the things that is noticeable about Cena's career is that like Flair people who work a program opposite Cena are more over at the end of the program then they were at the begininning. Even with Cena winning those programs.

 

Edge was more over (more credible) after the program with Cena than he was at the beginning,Umaga was more over (more credible) after program, Khali more over after program, etc.

[Tim Evans]

Anyone else think Orton/Cena will draw huge numbers at Summerslam?

 

I've been watching some bits on You Tube and the feud looks red hot.

 

Will Orton win the title?

I agree with Meltzer when he says UFC will hurt the buyrates. People I seriously doubt will by 2 $40 + PPV's in two nights.

 

However I'm really pumped for this match. Orton is my favorite heel on raw and he's been on a roll since the hotel room incident. He won't win the title but I think he will win at Unforgiven in the rematch.

[Jingus]

I just wonder what kind of incriminating photos Randy possesses, and which top WWE exec they feature. How this guy keeps getting a second chance for the seventh and eighth time, I have no idea. He trashes hotel rooms, he sexually harasses the women til they quit the company, he doesn't bother to tell anyone about his dad's contagious blood disease, he walks around in the locker room smoking a joint, so forth and so on. Why do they never punish him beyond the weakest of temporary slaps on the wrist? "Well Randy, we know you went around publicly smoking the reefer right after we instituted our new drug testing, so we're going to have to show you some tough love." "I'm out of the Wrestlemania semi-main?" "No, but you're gonna take the fall."

[Bix]

Depth issues related to lots of people getting injured.

[Strummer]

Call me crazy, but I think WWE could pull off a Cena-Kennedy double turn if they really put their minds to it. I know Kennedy's the guy all the cool kids are hating, but I watched him come up through OVW and there's something there if WWE decides to go balls-out with him.

I'm really not getting the Kennedy backlash since he came back from injury. This reminds me of all the Edge hate when he came back from injury in 04.

 

The guy had a good match with Bobby Lashley a few weeks back. Come on. (and yes I know this had a lot to do with Lashley actually selling for once but it was still good)

 

Plus he's not been allowed to truly utilize his mic skills.

 

The bastard child angle could make him a star

[kjh]

he doesn't bother to tell anyone about his dad's contagious blood disease

How would that be Randy's fault when there was nothing stopping his dad from telling everyone? Anyway, the problem wasn't that no-one in the company knew, it was that John Laurinaitis knew and didn't tell The Undertaker about it or tell Bob not to blade during the match.

[anarchistxx]

It's because he actually is a complete cunt that Randy keeps getting these pushes.

 

I believe he's this arrogant, self centred, vain, talented guy, and he plays it so well because he is like that in real life.

 

He's probably the best heel WWE have had since Rock or Austin, and better in some ways, because he draws genuine heat.

[Loss]

Randy Orton is the closest thing we have to Tully Blanchard in 2007.

 

I know that opens a can of worms, and I am not saying he's as good as Tully was, I'm simply saying that as far as his overall demeanor, he's the same type of heel.

[Guest *FH*]

I just wonder what kind of incriminating photos Randy possesses, and which top WWE exec they feature. How this guy keeps getting a second chance for the seventh and eighth time, I have no idea. He trashes hotel rooms, he sexually harasses the women til they quit the company, he doesn't bother to tell anyone about his dad's contagious blood disease, he walks around in the locker room smoking a joint, so forth and so on. Why do they never punish him beyond the weakest of temporary slaps on the wrist? "Well Randy, we know you went around publicly smoking the reefer right after we instituted our new drug testing, so we're going to have to show you some tough love." "I'm out of the Wrestlemania semi-main?" "No, but you're gonna take the fall."

It's funny that all your criticisms of Orton are based on second-, third-, maybe fourth-hand backstage information that nobody here can verify and, as fans, is really none of our business. What about his work? It's been great and the guy is one of the 6 or 7 best things in WWE right now. Knowing that Tom Cruise is batshit crazy and wrapped up in a UFO cult doesn't keep me from enjoying Minority Report. Seriously, why do you care? OMG he tore up Red Roof Inn, accosted the fair maidens backstage, and smoked the chiba! For fuck's sake, man.

 

A larger point is this: after the Benoit thing, how much stock can you really put in all these BACKSTAGE SCOOPZ~! anyway? One one hand, you have an immature young man getting press in the dirtsheets for acting like an idiot, and on the other hand, a smark darling is essentially a drugged out, possessive, lying sociopath to everyone he knows and you never hear anything until he kills his family. Just think about that before trying to get over on a message board as smart to tha bizness by screaming about alleged backstage cancers.

[Jingus]

So, beyond "we don't really know and we shouldn't really care, STOP COMPLAINING AND BE ENTERTAINED DAMMIT" you don't have an argument here?

 

I care because the last thing wrestling needs right now is for Randy to pull one of his typical stunts after they inevitably put the belt on him sometime soon. The WWE couldn't afford a situation now like they had with RVD last year. Also, I think it's ironic that he's yet another example of watching the smarks go from despising someone to loving them for no real reason; the only difference between Randy '04 and Randy now is that weak koncussion-kick, and yet all over the message boards you've got people screaming for him to take the title off Cena (which even I think is a bad idea at this point).

[Guest *FH*]

Are you a guy who, for example, won't play a great video game because you heard on Gamefaqs.com's forums that one of the programmers is kind of a dick?

 

I guess I'm just tired of the whole scene of wrestling fans who think they're on the inside because they read Meltzer or, worse, C&P Meltzer lites, and then, worse than that, they judge wrestling because of it. Seriously, the 95% of the bad stuff you never hear about obviously must be much worse than the 5% that does manage to trickle down to you through a ridiculous game of "pass it on." To use the same example I just did, how much bad did you hear about Benoit? How many people has Randy Orton killed so far? On top of that, keep in mind that the 5% of bad stuff you DO hear about has been leaked to Meltzer or whomever by guys with agendas. On top of that, it gets spun, sometimes better, sometimes worse, by the "reporter" (Keller/Jericho, anyone?). With all that in mind, it's pretty dumb to judge anyone in wrestling based on the equivalent of overhearing a conversation being retold by somebody's senile granpa.

 

There's also a case to be made that, even if the bad stuff you hear about is true, it's pretty nerdy to get indignant about backstage bullshit. Man, you're a subculture of a subculture of a subculture.

 

Just curious, what, if anything, do you enjoy about WWE? Because now we're back to possible masochism.