El-P Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 It's been working fine with me. It is me of Taker just looks really odd and ugly in that picture ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boondocks Kernoodle Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 He's always been ugly. But like Bix said, his head is unnaturally large, though actually it's not as obvious in that pic. During a match when his hair is wet you can see how freaky that big ol' dome is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Did this joke elsewhere, I liked it enough to do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Yeah, he always was ugly, but the aging face and super long hair just don't work anymore... He looks freaky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 This is something from a discussion at another board, but for historical perspective I thought I'd bring it up here too. Why has anyone thought that professional wrestling matches were real athletic contests? At any time in the past sixty years? Most folks here have seen at least a few matches from the 50s or 60s. Do they look like a real fight? No. Not at all. Not even remotely. It's not just fake, it's blatantly fake. How did people ever believe this shit was legit? (It especially bugs me with cases like Big Daddy, who were beloved by an entire nation who thought his obviously phony fights were somehow real, and is one reason why I was annoyed by the "but he was so popular in his day!" arguments for his HOF inclusion.) This even extends into the modern era. As a heel manager in 2003, I was once attacked by a crazy chain-swinging grandma who thought I was seriously trying to hurt her beloved babyfaces. I've met several other fans who, even in the 21st century, legitimately believe that it's a shootfight between two athletes who hate each other. That's awful enough, but at least they're in the minority. Go back a few decades, and half the goddamn arena crowds were like that. Jim Cornette famously brags that over 100 people have been sent to jail for trying to assault him at wrestling shows, and his career didn't start until the 1980s. In short, how can so many people have been so fucking stupid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Who says British fans thought Big Daddy matches were real? They were filled with comedy for the most part. The same audience who loved Big Daddy enjoyed watching Jackie Pallo and Les Kellet yap their way through entire bouts. To be honest, I don't understand the problem. If you can work an audience into believing what they're seeing is real, that's generally taken as a sign of a good worker. Does that mean the audience are stupid? Maybe, but that's why the boys in the back had names for the fans out front. It's a bit ondescending for my liking. Kayfabe was an important part of the business up until recently, and to rubbish the hand that feeds you is pretty ignorant on the part of the wrestling business and the people in it. As for why people believed it was real, there's always been skeptics who didn't and pro-wrestlers have always put up a front that it is real. But mostly, people believed it was real because they wanted it to be real. And on that point, what does it matter? Give me an audience who think it's real over a ROH type crowd any day of the week. Why the rant about one of the best possible things in pro-wrestling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 It especially bugs me with cases like Big Daddy, who were beloved by an entire nation who thought his obviously phony fights were somehow real, and is one reason why I was annoyed by the "but he was so popular in his day!" arguments for his HOF inclusion. Being from the UK, I'd say that the vast majority of British fans were in on the joke regarding Big Daddy. They didn't take his obviously phony fights as real, they took it for what it was. Light hearted entertainment. I'd say this was the same everywhere. My Dad knew it wasn't real, but it still didn't stop him from getting caught up in the moment and being outraged at the heels antics. But I think we've had this debate before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 And on that point, what does it matter? Give me an audience who think it's real over a ROH type crowd any day of the week. Why the rant about one of the best possible things in pro-wrestling?Well, there were such things asAs a heel manager in 2003, I was once attacked by a crazy chain-swinging grandma who thought I was seriously trying to hurt her beloved babyfaces.and I got off easy. Plenty of wrestlers who are still active today have stories about knives, guns, and other deadly weapons being pulled on them at the matches. Fucking morons are fucking morons, and it's not a good thing, period. Any person who's watched wrestling for any length of time in the past half-century and thought it was made of real fights are, indeed, a fucking moron. "It was better back when people believed!" Better for who? The conmen in the ring making the money? Fuck that. Along similar lines, look at all the stories of first-day trainees who were crippled in the name of "proving it's real". Or the idiot fans who were so incensed by the action that they jumped the barricade and hit the ring, and got one of their eyeballs torn out of their head for their troubles. These are not uncommon stories. Any old-timey veteran has a bunch of them. Believing it was Still Real To Me Dammit might've lined the pockets of more wrestlers and promoters than it does currently, but I'm not convinced that was such a positive concept in the overall scheme. Yeah, I know I'm striking out against kinda everyone here, considering the old-school policy of insider omerta when it came to kayfabe. But still, anyone who took one look at any match involving the likes of Bruno Sammartino and didn't realize that it was all phony (which considering all the stories of violence at Madison Square Gardens, is a whole fucking shitload of people) was borderline retarded and I hope they didn't reproduce. I have never ever understood anyone who ever thought that wrestling was real, even as a small child the first time I saw a wrestling match I caught onto the fact that these guys didn't seem to really be hitting each other very hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 My belief is still that they don't think it's real now, and most people never thought it was real. Even the knife-wielding types I think are people who are just guilty of getting caught up in the moment. I would say almost everyone in the world has always known wrestling is fake. But there have been debates on what parts of it are real and what parts of it are fake. Some fans, for example, may think that the matches are fake, but that the guys really hate each other. Or they may be convinced that something they saw had to be real because it looked so painful. I've had casual fans tell me they think ladder matches are real because no one could fall like that without hurting themselves. Just because you're capable of being worked doesn't mean you believe everything you see. Yes, 99% of wrestling fans know it's fake. But I would also say 99% of wrestling fans (most of us at this board included) don't know the extent to which it's fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Whose the fucking moron? The mark who gets so caught up in the heat of the moment that they take a pop at the heel or the heel who goaded the fans so much that they wanted to lynch him? Most old school wrestlers were insecure carnies who loved to clobber the marks who got in their way and sadistically bully young trainees to prove their toughness. It was more about conning themselves than conning the fans. The few heels who broke the mold by making sure not to push the fans too far and being nice and polite to fans outside the ring (like Killer Kowalski), weren't attacked nearly as much as the heels who were looking for trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB8 Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Sorry to drag this off topic, but I was watching Will's Dandy comp last night and started thinking about whether or not Dandy and Fuerza Guerrera ever had a big singles match. I've never even heard of a singles match between them, period. So, am I just *that* far out of the loop, or have they actually never done anything together in singles matches worth noting at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Fuerza and El Dandy never met in any known singles match. When did Terry Funk style Puerto Rico stories stop being cool? You can lay the blame at fans attacking wrestlers for any number of reasons -- drunkenness, socio-economic level, fans hating the heels, or just plain stupidity, but unless it crosses the line I don't see what's wrong with an old school wrestling crowd. Flair having to drop the title to Colon to avoid a riot is a great carnie story. Could be complete bullshit, but wrestling wouldn't be wrestling without carnie lies. What would you prefer Jingus? How should a crowd react? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Hell, just this year there was the riot over the Mike Jackson retirement ceremony that included an old man going to his car so he could retrieve an ax to use on the heels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Iron Chad Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 That's pretty funny about Jackson. I about had to fight my way out of a tiny indy show in Cullman, AL when I cheered a heel turn by Allen Martin (The Rock & Roll RPM at the time) against Jackson and Bob and Scott Armstrong to side with WCW jobber Larry Santo who was promoter Mickey Henry's (the child/teen molester) top heel at the time (1991 or 1992). Jackson lost the Alabama Jr. Heavyweight title he always had to Martin in the match and the fans blamed me for cheering the heels. Wasn't it Jack Veneno Flair dropped the NWA title to for fear of a riot in PR? I thought the Colon change that led to creation of the WWC Universal title was agreed to ahead of time with Flair/Colon, but not recognized by the NWA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 There are also the stories about how fans throughout the Gulas territory cheered and applauded when it was announced that Sam Bass, Pepe Lopez, & Frank Hester had died in a car accident (J.C. Dykes was so disturbed that he quit the business over it) and fans in the Atlanta area doing the same at an SCW show when it was announced that Paul Jones (the promoter/1st half of the century wrestler) died and they thought it was "Number One" Paul Jones who was managing for JCP at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Iron Chad Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 fans in the Atlanta area doing the same at an SCW show when it was announced that Paul Jones (the promoter/1st half of the century wrestler) died and they thought it was "Number One" Paul Jones who was managing for JCP at the time. Unfortunately, the dumbasses that put together the Rise and Fall of WCW DVD made the same mistake too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1004Holds Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 There are also the stories about how fans throughout the Gulas territory cheered and applauded when it was announced that Sam Bass, Pepe Lopez, & Frank Hester had died in a car accident (J.C. Dykes was so disturbed that he quit the business over it) and fans in the Atlanta area doing the same at an SCW show when it was announced that Paul Jones (the promoter/1st half of the century wrestler) died and they thought it was "Number One" Paul Jones who was managing for JCP at the time. I laughed at that story. I know, I'm terrible. Would this be similar to the fans who yelled "Die Rocky Die" or laughed when HHH got his first quad injury? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Would this be similar to the fans who yelled "Die Rocky Die" or laughed when HHH got his first quad injury? Or the scores of fans who happy to hear about the death of Victor Quiñones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 When did Terry Funk style Puerto Rico stories stop being cool?Stories are cool. Experiencing it firsthand? Not so much. Kind of analogous to how I may enjoy watching Stan Hansen's matches, but I would never ever agree to get in the ring with a guy like that. Once you've been forced to play impromptu amateur security guard between an insane, tiny fan and the enraged, massive wrestler that the fan just hit so hard with a chair that it left a big permanent scar on the wrestler's arm, the old "it was better back when people believed!" sentiment dies pretty fucking quick. Also: don't ever get caught out among the crowd at a Southern show if you're a referee and you missed any heel cheating. At best, you're gonna have some fat retard cut a promo on you for being incompetent; and I've known refs who were even attacked, though fortunately I avoided that sort of thing. You wouldn't believe some of the explanations I've pulled out of my ass to stave off bewildered, possible drunken, definitely angry rednecks who insisted that I explain this thing they just saw that irritated them. That's not cool, that just makes me contemptuous of the fanbase and then adds a side helping of self-loathing for being in an industry which attracts this sort of customer. Loss, I know we've discussed this before. I have met many people who really think that it's real. Dozens of them, which is a lot considering the tiny smalls on most of the shows I've worked. These folks do not just get caught up in the action. They firmly believe that these wrestlers really hate each other, are really hitting each other, and are really trying to win. There's no explaining that away; I've had far too many, for lack of a better word, "conversations" with some dumb mark who accosted me before or after the show or at intermission and then proceeded to expound upon his theories on why his favorite local wrestler should always use a Stone Cold Stunner because nobody kicks out of that, and he's told the local kid this many times but the local kid just won't listen, and if that heel uses that weapon one more time he's gonna call the cops, and blah blah blah. And they're serious. They're not just playing along with the show, they really are exactly that dimwitted. If I've met dozens of these folks in the 21st century, when everything from the internet to the autobiographies to Tough Enough has blatantly exposed the business, then I can't imagine how exponentially many more there would have been in earlier, less informed decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 There are towns in Mexico that obviously still thinks its real because there are near riots monthly at independent shows over actions by the rudos. These are mostly small shows in small towns but still. There was a belief back in the day that the undercard matches were always fake but the main events especially with hot angles was real. Whether it be Wahoo/Johnny Valentine, Von Erichs/Freebirds, Wrestling II/Spoiler, Dusty/Pak Song or whatever the action that was going on was real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomk Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Lexus: I'm so glad you guys came in. Everyone here is such a loser, but you guys seem really cool. Butters: You guys! I think our Raisins girl likes me. She, she touched my back when she walked away. Did you see that? The waitress at Hooters isn’t your girlfriend, doesn’t want to date you, isn’t going to fuck you. The Hooters waitresses flirtations are blatantly fake. Customers go into Hooters knowing that it’s a work. Knowing that the waitresses are being overly friendly and flirtatious because it’s their job to make the male customers feel warm. Customers are in on the work and willing participate. The customer doesn’t know the exact rules of the work and may fall for part of it “ I mean she works at Hooters she’s got to be a legit slut/needy of male attention…she seems more genuine than the other girls” People will fall for the work enough to leave giant tips. Occasionally customers will try to cop a feel s or try to follow her home. Jobs that involve managing/manipulating peoples emotions will occasionally find people who get pushed over the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1004Holds Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Would this be similar to the fans who yelled "Die Rocky Die" or laughed when HHH got his first quad injury? Or the scores of fans who happy to hear about the death of Victor Quiñones? That's serious, but why would they hate Quiñones? I've heard some nasty rumors about him but I don't think the average fan would have heard of them unless if it got out in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruiserBrody Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Over at kayfabe memories they are talking about Verne Gagne getting caught with a black hooker. Anyone ever hear this before? Sounds like a story that would've been stread more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 I have met many people who really think that it's real. Dozens of them, which is a lot considering the tiny smalls on most of the shows I've worked. Extrapolating from small unrepresentative samples leads to faulty conclusions that don't hold up in reality. You're going to find the dregs of wrestling fandom at two-bit indy shows. It doesn't follow that 20 years ago, every fan was a dumb mark who believed it was real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Over at kayfabe memories they are talking about Verne Gagne getting caught with a black hooker. Anyone ever hear this before? Sounds like a story that would've been stread more. Not so much "caught with", more like "Used to have one come up to his office regularly". Not sure how true it is but I've read it enough times over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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