Ridiculous quotes from WO.com columnists

[EricR]

So because of Trump and Mayweather and Tyson making more then they offered Brock to work Mania, by his definition that does mean that boxing and The Apprentice = wrestling.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Good old Todd brings the stupid:

 

Next up was John Cena’s farewell, which I found insufferable. Cena came out smiling and happy. He said that he’s fired and then became solemn. He talked about how much he respects the business and wrestlers of the past. He said his goal was always to get the older wrestlers to respect him. It always bugs me in these segments when wrestlers try to put over how much they love the wrestling business but have to abide by the ban of the term “wrestling.” It’s an odd way of showing respect for the past.

 

Cena said he has gotten to travel the world and live out his fantasy. He said he wouldn’t let Nexus ruin the greatest nine years of his life. He noted that WWE was a big part of his life and then it became his life. He noted he missed the birth of his brother’s child and his mother’s birthday is coming up. He said he would go home to tell his mom he loves her and see his brother’s kid. His eyes started tearing up.

 

Cena encouraged the women and children in the audience to say “let’s go Cena” and the men to say “Cena sucks.” He then told Barrett to stop taking shortcuts and give everything he has. He thanked the fans and left. They delayed forever to find a few fans who seemed mildly sad surrounded by smiling and unaffected people who weren’t buying a bit of this. Cena left backstage and everyone clapped for him. He hugged Orton and walked out. Barrett did the “you can’t see me” gesture.

 

I find it fundamentally insulting that despite the fact they’ve done a million phony retirements, Cena isn’t going to be gone for literally even a few weeks, and nobody buys the stipulation in the first place that they are still so arrogant and think so little of their audience’s intelligence that they try to really hard sell another fake retirement. Even Cena the character is a liar, selling this big departure huge and tugging on his fans’ heartstrings when he is planning to come back before the end of the show. Cena the character is essentially Brett Favre and at least there the retirements weren’t orchestrated by his team in an effort to sell tickets.

 

Selling pay-per-views based on a stipulation you have absolutely no intention of abiding by has always been sleazy. It’s been done so often it’s stupid because it doesn’t even pop business any more. And to try to turn the whole thing into a big heartfelt deal designed to play on real emotions is not only insulting and ineffective but undermines fans’ ability to emotionally invest in anything you do as significant and real.

[rovert]

Im amazed about the conclusions people are drawing re: the crowd reactions a month removed from Hell in the Cell.

[Loss]

Wait, it's wrong for wrestlers to manipulate the emotions of fans?

 

That's a separate argument (and a terrible one) from "WWE has totally killed stips by not holding up to them".

[sek69]

Especially considering the entire goddamn point of pro wrestling is to manipulate the emotions of fans.

[Guest Paul Kersey]

Cena the character is essentially Brett Favre and at least there the retirements weren’t orchestrated by his team in an effort to sell tickets.

 

I'm sure there's some Vikings fans who'd like them to orchestrate Favre's retirement to win some damn games.

 

I used to think that when I had some money I'd break down & get a subscription some day. I don't think I need one now, as I can read the WON crew's greatest hits elsewhere, and they're pretty damn disuasive.

 

There's a strange tendency to still defend wrestling (and I include in this the "X is really pro wrestling" meme, as well as an odd inability to truly confront it's more sleazy & vile aspects) that goes oddly with the inability to seem to actually still take any positives away from it. I don't think any of these people enjoy wrestling on a day to day basis anymore. I guess there must be some psychological need to still redeem a creepy obsession (or in Dave's case, a livelihood.) I mean, I still follow wrestling without enjoying it much, but I really don't defend it (or apply it to everything else in sight.)

 

Does their self-loathing just manifest differently?

[artDDP]

It was sek69 who said to me nearly ten years ago, "I don't think the average fan watches wrestling the same way we do."

 

I think of that every time I read about Wade or Dave or one of their columnists complaining about something like the Raw GM sending a lengthy e-mail just seconds after some heel does something heelish. I just don't picture your average fan saying, "Oh, crap, this is so FAKE!" and turning the channel. There's this idea that for wrestling to succeed it has to be as tightly written as an Emmy-award winning drama.

 

Yet, when wrestling was at its most popular it still suffered from quite a few logic gaps and a hearty suspension of disbelief.

 

Casual fans will always forgive minor things as long as there are interesting characters who are fun to cheer or boo and storylines eventually pay off.

[Loss]

In general, fans are far more forgiving when the promotion is doing well when they aren't. Some mistakes that don't matter at all when business is hot do sometimes matter when it's not.

[El-P]

I dunno. Attitude Era and 1999 in particular is what drove me out of WWF for good because the writing was so shitty and nonsensical. How can any fan forgive "It was me all along !", I don't understand.

[Loss]

I think in their mind, they still think ridiculous stuff like that had just as much to do with their success as anything, not realizing that people tolerated that so they could watch Steve Austin and The Rock.

[Grimmas]

I dunno. Attitude Era and 1999 in particular is what drove me out of WWF for good because the writing was so shitty and nonsensical. How can any fan forgive "It was me all along !", I don't understand.

All I know is that my high school friends and I started ordering WWF ppvs in 1998 and ordered almost every single one. In 1999 we only ordered WrestleMania and SummerSlam, but in 2000 we ordered every single show.

 

'99 was brutal. If they didn't have The Rock and Austin to save most of the shit it would had been the worst year ever.

[artDDP]

I dunno. Attitude Era and 1999 in particular is what drove me out of WWF for good because the writing was so shitty and nonsensical. How can any fan forgive "It was me all along !", I don't understand.

All I know is that my high school friends and I started ordering WWF ppvs in 1998 and ordered almost every single one. In 1999 we only ordered WrestleMania and SummerSlam, but in 2000 we ordered every single show.

 

'99 was brutal. If they didn't have The Rock and Austin to save most of the shit it would had been the worst year ever.

 

In 1999 I think the only compelling characters were The Rock and Austin. In most of 2000 the WWF tried to make everyone interesting and worth watching. Instead of relying on shock value they tried to create real, somewhat 3-D characters.

[Johnny Sorrow]

I dunno. Attitude Era and 1999 in particular is what drove me out of WWF for good because the writing was so shitty and nonsensical. How can any fan forgive "It was me all along !", I don't understand.

All I know is that my high school friends and I started ordering WWF ppvs in 1998 and ordered almost every single one. In 1999 we only ordered WrestleMania and SummerSlam, but in 2000 we ordered every single show.

 

'99 was brutal. If they didn't have The Rock and Austin to save most of the shit it would had been the worst year ever.

 

In 1999 I think the only compelling characters were The Rock and Austin. In most of 2000 the WWF tried to make everyone interesting and worth watching. Instead of relying on shock value they tried to create real, somewhat 3-D characters.

 

Mankind was also a pretty great part of 1999, if I recall.

[El-P]

I dunno. Attitude Era and 1999 in particular is what drove me out of WWF for good because the writing was so shitty and nonsensical. How can any fan forgive "It was me all along !", I don't understand.

All I know is that my high school friends and I started ordering WWF ppvs in 1998 and ordered almost every single one. In 1999 we only ordered WrestleMania and SummerSlam, but in 2000 we ordered every single show.

 

'99 was brutal. If they didn't have The Rock and Austin to save most of the shit it would had been the worst year ever.

 

In 1999 I think the only compelling characters were The Rock and Austin. In most of 2000 the WWF tried to make everyone interesting and worth watching. Instead of relying on shock value they tried to create real, somewhat 3-D characters.

 

Mankind was also a pretty great part of 1999, if I recall.

 

Apart from having his head bashing in at Royal Rumble in that stupid match that I hated, and a nothing program with th Big Show, I don't remember Mankind being any part of any important angle in 1999. The big stuff came back in 2000 when it was time to put Stephy's love interest over. But Mick's big years really were 1997 when he broke through, the Ross interview, the first Hunter program which again helped Hunter a whole lot, Dude Love showing up at the top of the cage in SummerSlam, teaming with Austin, then in 98 the Terry Funk and NAO deal, HITC with Taker, corporate Dude Love against Austin, the birth of Mr. Socko and corporate Mankind getting screwed, winning the WWF championship. Foley was at the peak of his stardom. But 1999 really sucked, even Austin was involved in shitty stuff all year long (terrible feud with the Corporate Ministry). I guess The Rock was really the only bright spot, with Jericho showing up and Russo getting the fuck out the other two positive things. And then you had Owen dying. Terrible year, no wonder it drove me out. I kinda regret it in retrospect since I missed out the really good 2000 and first half of 2001 because of it.

[El-P]

I think in their mind, they still think ridiculous stuff like that had just as much to do with their success as anything, not realizing that people tolerated that so they could watch Steve Austin and The Rock.

I agree.

That's probably also why Russo is still employed in 2010, and probably in 2011.

[Al]

1999 is just completely unwatchable for me in retrospect.

[Death From Above]

99 was the last year I watched weekly TV regularly, giving up sometime near Wrestlemania. RAW was totally unwatchable.

 

WCW I still watched a bit to the death, but even then I knew it was for comedy value.

[Strummer]

Re: 1999 WWF

 

the period from Post Survivor Series 98 to WM 15 in retrospect is just dreadful, dreadful stuff save a few instances (the cage match at St,. Valentine's Massacre was fun). Post WM 15 to when Russo leaves is a slight improvement I guess but still pretty terrible. For the last few months of 99 there was a strange dynamic with WWE trying to still kinda book like Russo with some traditional Vince McMahon/WWF promotion thrown in

[Cox]

You know 1999 WWF is pretty terrible when Test was the only new star they made that year.

[El-P]

Re: 1999 WWF

 

the period from Post Survivor Series 98 to WM 15 in retrospect is just dreadful, dreadful stuff save a few instances (the cage match at St,. Valentine's Massacre was fun). Post WM 15 to when Russo leaves is a slight improvement I guess but still pretty terrible. For the last few months of 99 there was a strange dynamic with WWE trying to still kinda book like Russo with some traditional Vince McMahon/WWF promotion thrown in

Survivor Series 98 is really the starting point of the complete Russoisation of the promotion, with an entire PPV build around : a swerve. A bunch of nothing short matches (maybe one or two got good) and the swerve at the end of the PPV. The entire Russo booking philosophy is there. He has booked the same way for 12 years now. Amazing. Royal Rumble was all about Vince MacMahon winning the match, nice way to shit on your gimmick and the entire PPV again. And WM15 was all about not delivering the matches you build toward by switching championships at the last time (Road Dog winning the IC and Billy Gunn the hardcore, putting them in matches with no build whatsoever, brillant), and the double, triple swerve with HHH and Chyna.

[Loss]

The big difference between 1999 and 2000 was also that the shows were so heatless in '99 outside of the bigger matches, where the 2000 shows had a hot crowd from top to bottom. It was a noticeable shift that happened sometime early in 2000 when the match quality improved.

[kjh]

There wasn't really anything wrong with The Rock swerve turn, they built it up for several weeks so that it made sense with the benefit of hindsight and set up the money match at WrestleMania. The problem was when Russo rushed through that formula ad infinitum to rapidly dwindling returns.

[El-P]

The big difference between 1999 and 2000 was also that the shows were so heatless in '99 outside of the bigger matches, where the 2000 shows had a hot crowd from top to bottom. It was a noticeable shift that happened sometime early in 2000 when the match quality improved.

Yeah, because all of a sudden, matches actually mattered.

By 1999, the crowds had been taught to only react to entrances and catchphrases. In that respect, NOA were the perfect exemple of the Attitude Era.

[Loss]

Yeah, obviously HHH, Rock, Austin, etc. were the money guys, but I think it's short-sighted to say that guys like Matt and Jeff, E & C, Jericho, etc. didn't play an important role in the company's success at the time. It's worth noting that 2000 had them without Austin, Undertaker and Foley for large chunks of the year, three guys they'd built around in the two years prior, so that makes it even more impressive that they were able to keep going without skipping a beat, and it also makes the excuses about business being down because so-and-so is injured ring all the more hollow.

[rovert]

I know it is kind of a silly point to bring but Ivory former GLOW star's first reaction seeing the guys backstage in 1999 for the first time was where was all the colour was virtually everyone was wearing black from Austin to the Ministry guys to Blackman to Severn and so on. There was a "dark" or dull kind of aesthetic to the product post say Summerslam 98 to early 2000.