The Wednesday Night War

[Migs]

15 hours ago, Mad Dog said:

I think it would take a year or two of amazing shows to regain trust. I mentioned it in another thread. I tuned in because I was interested in seeing Rollins vs. Misterio and just turned it off when I realized there was never any intention of delivering it.

And a year without a major angle involving the McMahons. It's amazing not just that they squandered Becky's momentum, but how they did it - by inserting Vince to set up a series of twists and turns in the Mania build that were completely unnecessary and directed the energy away from the original issue. They made the company the heel when Ronda and Charlotte were doing just fine as heels on their own.

[Alucard]

On 10/3/2019 at 8:27 PM, El-P said:

Hopefully. And I'm absolutely part of this. I watched more or less the last three weeks of NXT, just to "prepare myself" to this week, and honestly I'm not gonna keep watching. It just doesn't interest me, it still totally feels like WWE to me (despite talent I like a lot). With AEW no in full effect, I have less than zero reason to force myself to watch anything I don't really like.

Same here. Hadn't watched NXT in over a year until the USA premiere. I enjoyed the first two weeks but this last one reminded me why I stopped watching (gargano and ciampa) and putting them both back on the show makes me think their counter to AEW is more of.. that. So I think Ive had enough.

[MoS]

Retaining more than 1.1 million viewers is excellent for AEW. And they had a much better show than last week's to boot. 

[Mad Dog]

NXT is freefalling pretty hard. I think we're in for some panic moves if they get under 700k or AEW doubles them up on total viewers. 

[sek69]

TNT was reportedly going to be happy if AEW brought in 600-750k, so they have to be pretty stoked for the numbers so far. Plus the deal they brokered for TV meant the more viewers the more money AEW got from ad revenue so everyone's a winner here.

[El-P]

It's safe to say after only two weeks, throwing NXT against AEW was a bad idea. And it really appears to be unfair to the NXT talents to me. For now, it seems they are led to the slaughterhouse for no good reason. NXT, which used to be the cool and fresh brand of WWE, now comes off uncool, yesterday's news and low-rent compared to the AEW show.

Even worse, NXT is now the first WWE branded show that is a loser against any competition since the glory days of Nitro. What do you think the perception will be now when some of those guys are gonna "graduate" to the main roster ? It's not like most of the NXT talent has been used properly there anyway, but at least the perception was these were the exciting cool guys, even if they weren't treated as such by the office. Now, they are the losing crew. You think Vince is gonna push hard for those people who are losing the ratings war against that pissant company ? 

Of course there's the idea that NXT is its own brand and that these guys won't be called up as much as before, but then again, what does that mean for their financial status ? Stuck with NXT contracts forever ?

[DMJ]

^ All of this.

As others have written elsewhere too, in two short weeks, AEW has made me interested in seeing guys like Sammy Guevara and Darby Allin develop into bigger stars. This is something that NXT used to do. 

Out of sheer convenience, I've been a WWE-centric fan for the past 20 years. The Network introduced me to older footage but I definitely wasn't watching NJPW or RoH during their respective peaks. I dipped in and (mostly) out of TNA/Impact too. So, like many US fans, seeing Finn Balor, Nakamura, and Andrade Almas in NXT was my first real exposure to them and, in NXT, they each blew me away. 

Then they got to the main roster and my enthusiasm faded as they each faded into midcard obscurity. So, its really hard to get excited about someone like Matt Riddle - who I like - or Keith Lee - who I like - or even Velveteen Dream. We've seen their ceiling. We've seen much hotter talents that were seemingly the "total package" come up from NXT and not treated like big deals. 

Meanwhile, on AEW, guys like Jake Hager and the aforementioned Allin and Guevara seem like, a year from now, they could be bigger stars. In NXT, we've seen stars "peak" before they're even on the main roster. 

[MoS]

Orange Cassidy in 5 seconds seemed a bigger star than so many extremely talented WWE rookies. Now I want to see an AEW-booked Dream. 

[sek69]

4 hours ago, El-P said:

Of course there's the idea that NXT is its own brand and that these guys won't be called up as much as before, but then again, what does that mean for their financial status ? Stuck with NXT contracts forever ?

Dave mentioned that the NXT folks got their pay bumped once the move to USA was announced.

[NintendoLogic]

Finn Balor going back to NXT will only make things worse. He didn't exactly set the world on fire on the main roster, so it comes across like he's being demoted because he couldn't cut it in the big leagues, which adds to the perception of NXT as a loser brand.

[FMKK]

It's amazing how quickly the bloom has come off the rose with NXT. It hasn't been my bag for a few years now really but I can see why people liked it as an alternative to the main roster. But now that there is a big budget alternative, NXT looks like it just can't shake that WWE stink.

[Mad Dog]

My theory is that NXT was never expected to win or even do that well in the ratings. It was meant to make sure that AEW wasn't viable ratings wise.

[El-P]

31 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

My theory is that NXT was never expected to win or even do that well in the ratings. It was meant to make sure that AEW wasn't viable ratings wise.

And they probably infered that people watching AEW had to come from their own audience, because there's nothing outside of WWE, pro-wrestling fans are WWE fans. That was a pretty big misjudgement on their part.

[Mad Dog]

1 minute ago, El-P said:

And they probably infered that people watching AEW had to come from their own audience, because there's nothing outside of WWE, pro-wrestling fans are WWE fans. That was a pretty big misjudgement on their part.

It was. It was clear week 1 that WWE didn't understand what AEW was going for or who they were appealing to. They have been very in their own bubble when it comes to this. Even HHH has looked kind of stupid with how he has booked NXT the first month on TV. I don't think they understand how to get new fans anymore. 

[NintendoLogic]

AEW killing WWE among younger viewers has to be the biggest cause for concern. Even during the low points of WWE's popularity, they were able to set themselves up for the future by establishing brand loyalty among young viewers. They're receiving millions of dollars from a Saudi prince who wanted to see Yokozuna, for Christ's sake. If they become firmly established as the uncool brand for old people, they're going to be in trouble down the road.

[El-P]

What did they do over the last two weeks ? They built toward the Saudi shows. The two major angles of the New Boom Era LOL have nothing to do with their actual audience or grabbing a new audience. It has everything to do with doing services for a crimical regime who beheaded a journalist last year. Meanwhile, AEW is talking to its fans and tries to deliver something they will enjoy.

[FMKK]

9 minutes ago, El-P said:

What did they do over the last two weeks ? They built toward the Saudi shows. The two major angles of the New Boom Era LOL have nothing to do with their actual audience or grabbing a new audience. It has everything to do with doing services for a crimical regime who beheaded a journalist last year. Meanwhile, AEW is taking to its fans and tries to deliver something they will enjoy.

Even if you take the Blood Money stuff out of it, look at the main matches advertised for Raw and Smackdown shows so far in the New Boom Era LOL.

Raw last week: Mysterio vs Rollins for the title never happens

Smackdown last week: Brock vs Kofi lasts seven seconds. No Austin, Taker or Sting.

Raw this week: nothing happening show but there was the Fury brawl

Smackdown this week: Reigns vs Rollins has no finish because of the Spooky Murder Clown 

Two weeks into this thing and they can barely even deliver what they've advertised.

[El-P]

Smells like WCW Spirit to me... (likewise, the order of the picks on the first draft show that was basically leaked)

[MoS]

https://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2019/10/17/20918968/aew-nxt-ratings-viewership-oct-16-2019-wednesday-night-war

1.014 million for AEW; 712k for nxt. AEW seems to be approaching a steady state number of 1 million, which has to be greatly exceeding expectations of even one month back. Given how ratings for everything across the spectrum is declining, one million seems a solid number to build a promotion and get wrestlers over as stars and hot acts, thus selling tickets and drawing money and people in the long run.

The ratings war is definitely not close. NXT is in a freefall and is getting murdered in the key demographic. I wonder if Vince will start interfering with nXt more and more. 

Edited October 17, 2019 by MoS
Added more thoughts

[goodhelmet]

This shouldn't be surprising. Even after you consider the discrepancy in presentation, NXT is so mired in the WWE corporate muck that they don't even feel cool anymore. One of their most charismatic guys (Dream) is now injured and the other most charismatic guy (Matt Riddle) was pinned in week one. Just another bro. 

[Mad Dog]

And on top of that, NXT is going to have to slow down at some point and try to be an actual TV show. They have burned months worth of match ups for nothing. 

[Goodear]

On 10/5/2019 at 12:28 PM, Migs said:

And a year without a major angle involving the McMahons. It's amazing not just that they squandered Becky's momentum, but how they did it - by inserting Vince to set up a series of twists and turns in the Mania build that were completely unnecessary and directed the energy away from the original issue. They made the company the heel when Ronda and Charlotte were doing just fine as heels on their own.

Remember when they inserted Debra into the Rock-Austin build?  Same principle.

[C.S.]

9 minutes ago, Goodear said:

Remember when they inserted Debra into the Rock-Austin build?  Same principle.

Egads! That was the worst. Debra was barely tolerable in small doses. As the centerpiece of a major WrestleMania main event that absolutely did not need her, she was unbearable.

[rovert]

On 10/17/2019 at 10:08 PM, goodhelmet said:

This shouldn't be surprising. Even after you consider the discrepancy in presentation, NXT is so mired in the WWE corporate muck that they don't even feel cool anymore. One of their most charismatic guys (Dream) is now injured and the other most charismatic guy (Matt Riddle) was pinned in week one. Just another bro. 

And when your favourite NXT Superstar gets called up they get booked like shit on the main event.

On 10/18/2019 at 4:38 AM, Mad Dog said:

And on top of that, NXT is going to have to slow down at some point and try to be an actual TV show. They have burned months worth of match ups for nothing. 

They do! But I thought this week's show was much better paced and told a few stories/planted seeds for a change. 

[MoS]

Quote

Per Showbuzz Daily, AEW drew in 963,000 viewers with a 0.45 rating in the key 18-49 demographic. NXT netted 698,000 with a 0.21 rating in the 18-49 demo.

Despite the decline, AEW still was the fourth most watched original cable telecast among 18-49 year olds, while NXT checked in at 21st on the night. The top three spots on cable for Wednesday were two NBA on ESPN games and American Horror Story on FX.

Also surprisingly both Dynamite and NXT saw a small 0.01 gain in the people aged 18-49 from Oct. 16.

https://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2019/10/24/20931010/aew-nxt-ratings-viewership-oct-23-2019-wednesday-night-war-wwe

Given all the sports competition on Wednesday, with both NBA coming back and the World Series happening, is it fair to say that both shows did well? I think so. The 18-49 demographic remaining flat instead of declining has to be a good sign for both companies.