joeg Posted February 22, 2021 Report Share Posted February 22, 2021 LOL agreed rookie year Detroit championship run Darko was way more over than Matt Morgan ever was... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 22, 2021 Report Share Posted February 22, 2021 I'll let the NBA fans fight against each other as I'm tiptoeing out of this damn thread.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 22, 2021 Report Share Posted February 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, El-P said: I'll let the NBA fans fight against each other as I'm tiptoeing out of this damn thread.... Long and short of it. Detroit won the championship his rookie year. He was only ever used in garbage time if they had a big lead. So he always got massive cheers if he was coming into the game because it meant Detroit was winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 22, 2021 Report Share Posted February 22, 2021 Just now, Mad Dog said: He was only ever used in garbage time if they had a big lead. They use tables, chairs and thumbtacks in the NBA too ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 22, 2021 Report Share Posted February 22, 2021 8 minutes ago, El-P said: They use tables, chairs and thumbtacks in the NBA too ? Have you ever seen Malice at the Palace? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 22, 2021 Report Share Posted February 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, Mad Dog said: Have you ever seen Malice at the Palace? I googled it (again). Damn, that was fun ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 22, 2021 Report Share Posted February 22, 2021 1 minute ago, El-P said: I googled it (again). Damn, that was fun ! If you are ever bored some of the Detroit vs. Colorado brawls from the late 90s in the NHL are insane. Even the goalies got into it in those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted February 22, 2021 Report Share Posted February 22, 2021 22 minutes ago, Mad Dog said: If you are ever bored some of the Detroit vs. Colorado brawls from the late 90s in the NHL are insane. Even the goalies got into it in those. Or to provide a comparison to Malice at the Palace, the late 70s NHL game where Bruin players went into the crowd to fight fans at MSG https://youtu.be/VMcbdBYuGTE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 22, 2021 Report Share Posted February 22, 2021 Those old-school Battle Royal really did not have that much action compared to the stuff of today, like the infamous Roissy Charles de Gaulles Airport Street Fight between Booba and Kaaris (two big star of the French rap game). Yeah, that's getting noticed in the hall of the airport, people. The guy bumping on the chairs never ever get old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Ricky Jackson said: Or to provide a comparison to Malice at the Palace, the late 70s NHL game where Bruin players went into the crowd to fight fans at MSG https://youtu.be/VMcbdBYuGTE Boston has a history of taking retributive violence beyond what is expected. Push 'em far enough? Ya fucked, khed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 Does anyone remember that Texas pitcher from the mid 2000s that threw the chair into the crowd and hit some woman during a game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 33 minutes ago, Mad Dog said: Does anyone remember that Texas pitcher from the mid 2000s that threw the chair into the crowd and hit some woman during a game? Frank Francisco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dav'oh Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 "He's given him one, too." "Yep." "He's done well." Classic commentary after John Bourke assaulted an umpire (no send-off rule!) and then jumped the fence to tolchok a spectator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pete Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 Matt Morgan falls into a similar category as Test as somebody who had all the tools but just couldn't put it together to build a compelling Pro Wrestling persona. In contrast somebody like Nathan Jones had an imposing look and a backstory that could make him an effective heel but there were clear signs he was never going to make it. I'm sure the OVW product was enjoyable to watch back in the day, but I tend to question whether Cornette deserves the lion share of the credit. To me it seems like JR/Brisco recruited all this amazing talent and the guys that Cornette considered stars either had their gimmicks completely overhauled on the main roster or they barely made a dint on the main roster. The few exceptions were can't miss talents like Brock Lesnar and Randy Orton who was called up prematurely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 It seems like everyone who's been involved in running OVW has a lot of "WWE called us to change what we were doing with someone" stories so it seems at least he was pretty good at making lemonade with whatever lemons he was given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pete Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 I should say whether he deserves the lion share of the credit for producing all these stars. I'm sure the show at the time was one of the best weekly television products in Pro Wrestling and he deserves credit for that. However, when people talk about the success of OVW it's usually based on the talent that came through the promotion like Brock Lesnar, Batista, John Cena, Randy Orton, Shelton Benjamin etc. Given the number of alterations the WWE went onto make with some of those guys and the quality of talent he had to work with, I don't necessarily view them as Cornette guys. He was certainly a part of the process but I'd sooner credit JR, Brisco and the recruitment team than Corny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 And Danny Davis, of course. I remember listening to those old Cornette podcasts and whenever he was talking about this period, he would refer to Batista as a "frail demon" and seemed pissed about him too. I don't remember why, but the term stayed with me, as Cornette criticized him because he was "always cold" or something, which is a pretty odd thing to do, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pete Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, El-P said: And Danny Davis, of course. I remember listening to those old Cornette podcasts and whenever he was talking about this period, he would refer to Batista as a "frail demon" and seemed pissed about him too. I don't remember why, but the term stayed with me, as Cornette criticized him because he was "always cold" or something, which is a pretty odd thing to do, really. It was a receipt because Batista was critical of the OVW system because they limited what he could do and had to break all these habits once he hit the main roster. Cornette was very proud of Batista when he had him and declared he'd be the biggest star in Pro Wrestling in 5 years. However, since he felt betrayed he's been more critical of Dave and has basically painted him as this neurotic hypochondriac who always had some hang-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 It's easy to chalk Cornette's success in OVW up to the raw talent he had to work with. But it still takes booking to accentuate their strengths, as WWE amply demonstrated when they seemingly went out of their way to sabotage most of their OVW call-ups. For example, Aaron Aguilera (Jesus) had a rep as a guy who was a strong talker but not much of a worker, so he was given a mute bodyguard gimmick when he got called up. Same deal with Matt Morgan, except he was given a stuttering gimmick. Doug Basham vs. Damaja was the top feud in OVW, so they got brought up as a brother tag team. With the Basham Brothers, Cornette actually did a pretty ingenious job of booking himself out of the corner WWE put him in. I'll just copy the Observer recap: Quote Damaja came out and said he was in Pensacola for Smackdown and was told by John Laurinaitis that he’d be teaming with Basham as the Basham Brothers. He said he thought it was a plot by Basham and Laurinaitis to get him to give up his spot on Smackdown and make him quit. Cornette even read a supposed letter from Laurinaitis saying that his WWE contract gives them the right to make his matches, which includes picking his tag team partners, and also giving him whatever name they want to, and that if he refuses, he’s in breach of contract. The letter said that not only would he lose his job in WWE with a breach, but they’d take legal action to keep him from wrestling anywhere in the world for the duration of his contract. Damaja said that he would have to wrestle every Thursday night on Smackdown as Danny Basham, but if he could injure Doug in OVW, he’d get out of this Basham Brothers gimmick. Basham then came out during the interview and kept making fun of him, calling him brother and partner. Basham acted like it was all his plot and he tried to get Damaja to quit, saying that then he could bring Rob Conway to WWE as his tag partner. So they are going to still feud in OVW. Even Cena was dangerously close to being future endeavored before Stephanie heard him freestyle and he got the rapping gimmick that saved his career. It makes you wonder how many supposedly can't miss talents WWE ended up missing with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 What is Corny's timeline of him being involved in the WWF creatives ? I know he's gone sometime in 1997 (I guess not too long after Russo gets in, although he's now officially credited for the idea for the Montreal Screwjob), but I'm not exactly sure when he got involved. I would guess after SMW closed down shop. I believe the whole stop-start dynamic of the Vader vs Micheals match at SummerSlam was his, and it was a terrible idea which hurt the match even more than Micheals acting like a douchebag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 It should also be mentioned that OVW was the best drawing indy promotion in the early 00s as well. They obviously had WWE talent for the big shows but there were shows where they drew thousands for a couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 OVW TV is really bad, and when I watch it now, it surprises me that anyone ever liked it. It doesn't evoke the old school things that it claims to and I can't recall a single clean finish on TV. Like, seriously, not even one time. Cornette also creates faux enthusiasm by SCREAMING constantly as an announcer in a way that is grating, and by being a half-second ahead of what's actually happening when he's calling it, perhaps because he booked it and is too aware of what's coming next. Anyway, OVW was horrible. Not long ago, I watched them show clips of a Louisville Gardens show on TV where 120 people were in the crowd. When they didn't have the major WWF stars of the time coming in to pop a house, it was as cold as wrestling gets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 I think Six Flags is when they started to do better on pulling consistent houses and not being entirely dependent on WWE guys. Lack of clean finishes is kind of a Cornette trope. I love SMW but the finishes can really kill it at times for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pete Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 39 minutes ago, El-P said: What is Corny's timeline of him being involved in the WWF creatives ? I know he's gone sometime in 1997 (I guess not too long after Russo gets in, although he's now officially credited for the idea for the Montreal Screwjob), but I'm not exactly sure when he got involved. I would guess after SMW closed down shop. I believe the whole stop-start dynamic of the Vader vs Micheals match at SummerSlam was his, and it was a terrible idea which hurt the match even more than Micheals acting like a douchebag. I was just listening to his NWA Invasion shoot so I can tell you he was off creative before the December 11th 1997 taping. Jim being Jim explained in explicit detail how he remembered that date so I have no reason to doubt the intel. I'll try to see if I can uncover his start date for you. I believe he mentioned it during his recap of the Michaels-Vader feud funnily enough. According to Jim, the stop-start was Patterson but he thought it was a good idea for what they had originally planned to do before HBK sandbagged it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 One thing to keep in mind with OVW is that it is not technically an independent promotion. It's first and foremost a wrestling school. They just have a show attached to it. I know that's not unusual, but I think you have to approach how you view it, quality-wise, a little differently. I'm not trying to argue that those Cornette shows were actually great or anything. I just think you have to grade on a curve. OVW has had periods where they've drawn well even after their WWE affiliation ended. I went to a show just a couple years ago where the main even was a friend of mine who was a local tv sportscaster in a tag match with a couple wrestlers and a local radio guy. They literally had standing room only for that show. They'd use a lot of local tv and radio personalities since their former main commentator was a local tv anchor. Those shows always did well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.