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#SpeakingOut: Industry-wide sexual misconduct (assault/harrassment/grooming/etc) accusations and their repercussions

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Ok, where was my quote from a few days/weeks ago about if you need to only watch good guys in pro-wrestling you basically have to watch David Starr and that's it, so I can edit it ? I guess it was more political than anything, but still, it sure hasn't aged well...

With that being said, I can't say that I care too much because I probably have watched about one or two David Starr matches ever, and that's a few years ago, so it's not like I have any kind of connection to this guy (plus the whole "grey rape" issue I won't touch with a ten foot pole anyway).

The apology in draft for weeks... yeah, yikes indeed.

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Not good at all. One of my favorite wrestlers. If something happens with him, then Independent Wrestling would be dead to me. He is the only one holding that ship together.

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I'm upset about David Starr, but I'm honestly not surprised. Guys who try way too hard to appear super woke online always have skeletons in their closets.  

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Why is this stuff happening on Twitter, really ? I mean... Filing charges is not a thing anymore ? And the guy can't talk to his former partner or send his "apologies" to her privately ? 

And the less said about the cohort of virtue signalers, wannabe priests and "good luck man" wishing dorks inhabiting those threads, the better (although the amount of irony packed up at a same spot is quite overwhelming)

Dumb fuck social media generation, really.

(damn, I said I would not touch that one with a ten foot pole)

On the pro-wrestling side of it, where was the guy working ? What would be some implications of him being "cancelled" (while Jerry Lawler is a Hall of Famer on Raw, but that's for another day) ? Someone else would want to carry the flag of "unionization" (please) ?

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I'd say the biggest promotions he works for currently are OTT and RevPro. I wonder if they are going to keep booking him after this. He's a top player in OTT.

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10 minutes ago, El-P said:

Why is this stuff happening on Twitter, really ? I mean... Filing charges is not a thing anymore ? And the guy can't talk to his former partner or send his "apologies" to her privately ? 

Sadly most folks don't bother filing charges for things like rape because at best it leads to the victim being dragged through the mud and slut shamed and/or the authorities not taking it as serious as they should. 

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1 minute ago, cactus said:

I'd say the biggest promotions he works for currently are OTT and RevPro. I wonder if they are going to keep booking him after this. He's a top player in OTT.

I would say after this, it's highly questionable. It really does not look so hot to me right now. He might end up getting stripped of the OTT World Title, and the other titles that he holds.

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14 minutes ago, sek69 said:

Sadly most folks don't bother filing charges for things like rape because at best it leads to the victim being dragged through the mud and slut shamed and/or the authorities not taking it as serious as they should. 

I know all that, I don't expect it to be much better in the US than it is here (and considering how puritan the american society is, actually I guess it's worse in a way in term of victim-shaming), but still, at some point, it would be nice to have things move forward in the real world as opposed to having a Twitter war with finger-pointing and fake-ass apologies (really, the whole public contrition act is blah...), surrounded with a crowd of idiots taking sides and making definitive comments on a situation they know nothing about like they are a grand jury in a courtroom. When you can file charges, you do it if only because so many don't even have the opportunity to do so. (now, when stuff happened too long ago to be able to file charges, yeah, then there's nothing more to do other than to out the motherfuckers)

Totally seconds the comment about those who act woke-as-fuck and houlier than thou often being the worst... Yeah. Bad stuff.

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5 hours ago, cactus said:

I'm upset about David Starr, but I'm honestly not surprised. Guys who try way too hard to appear super woke online always have skeletons in their closets.  

Joss Whedon was the king of this. What a fraud he turned out to be. (Not to this extent, obviously, but he wasn't exactly the "woke feminist" he portrayed himself as.)

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12 hours ago, SmoothS said:

I would say after this, it's highly questionable. It really does not look so hot to me right now. He might end up getting stripped of the OTT World Title, and the other titles that he holds.

This is happening en masse right now. OTT and TNT stripped him of their World Titles and other companies like NORTH Wrestling have officially severed ties.

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Another heartbreaking moment in 2020 for me... Well, that was the final nail in the coffin for Independent Wrestling. From this point forward it's just Puroresu, AEW, & WWE.

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17 hours ago, sek69 said:

Sadly most folks don't bother filing charges for things like rape because at best it leads to the victim being dragged through the mud and slut shamed and/or the authorities not taking it as serious as they should. 

Well, at best, the evidence would be considered and it would lead to a trial and conviction if the evidence supported that outcome. At worst, yea, as you said. The problem is, putting it on Twitter just lets all of the moral purists get their jollies regardless of the evidence which is not really ideal either. But that's the world we live in unfortunately. Some people on the "correct" side of a debate feel justified in using scummy, coercive, and bullying methods to push their agenda.

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52 minutes ago, World's Worst Man said:

Well, at best, the evidence would be considered and it would lead to a trial and conviction if the evidence supported that outcome. At worst, yea, as you said. The problem is, putting it on Twitter just lets all of the moral purists get their jollies regardless of the evidence which is not really ideal either. But that's the world we live in unfortunately. Some people on the "correct" side of a debate feel justified in using scummy, coercive, and bullying methods to push their agenda.

One of the biggest difficulties in prosecuting something like rape, though, is that the evidence is really almost impossible to parse. In this Starr discussion, no one is debating whether they had sex, or indicating physical violence like in the Alberto Del Rio case - the question is whether there was consent, and all you could possibly have is two people's word. It's a fundamental problem that tends to be made worse by society's historical knee jerk reaction to disbelieve and blame women. 

Not saying the court of Twitter justice is a good thing, although here it actually seems to have gotten to a reasonable place, since Starr basically admitted to "grey rape" (which is a new term to me, but seems reasonably descriptive of the sort of sketchy sexual interaction that's at play here).

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For sure - it's a very difficult problem where it seems like it's either the guilty getting away with it, since it's a very difficult accusation to prove; or innocents being punished based on he-said/she-said, which is not adequate evidence in my mind. It's just unpleasant business any way you take it.

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22 hours ago, El-P said:

Why is this stuff happening on Twitter, really ? I mean... Filing charges is not a thing anymore ? And the guy can't talk to his former partner or send his "apologies" to her privately ? 

And the less said about the cohort of virtue signalers, wannabe priests and "good luck man" wishing dorks inhabiting those threads, the better (although the amount of irony packed up at a same spot is quite overwhelming)

Dumb fuck social media generation, really.

(damn, I said I would not touch that one with a ten foot pole)

On the pro-wrestling side of it, where was the guy working ? What would be some implications of him being "cancelled" (while Jerry Lawler is a Hall of Famer on Raw, but that's for another day) ? Someone else would want to carry the flag of "unionization" (please) ?

Agreed 110%. There are very good reasons why crimes are tried in a court of law and not on twitter. On twitter there's no real consequence for being guilty just rumor and inuendo, and there's also no way to get your reputation back when innocent. 

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Sometimes people get more justice on Twitter than the courts, that's a reflection of how fucked up both are.

Besides, at the very least  it seems there's pretty clear evidence from David Starr himself (based on how he's handled this situation) that he's a shit person who emotionally abuses people he's in a relationship with. Not someone I'm going to shed any tears over losing their reputation,  and honestly not someone I believe is innocent of anything he's being accused of.

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Now that I think about it, Chris Hero should be back on the Indies. He will be the one carrying Independent Wrestling, and he is more than qualified for that role, being that he is a living legend. After 20 years, I don't think he will let anyone down.

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Just now, ButchReedMark said:

This could well be the last nail in NXT UKs coffin. I wasn't expecting it to survive covid 19 anyway, but this could just push it over the top. 

Devlin, Banks, Joe Coffey, Ligero, Sid Scala for starters have all been named.  Sounds like there's going to be more coming out tomorrow.

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Been reading about it, yep, NXT UK is as dead as a graveyard. Jordan Devlin shocked the hell outta me. Was a fan of his ring generalship.

The Millie McKenzie stories shocked me too.

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