Mad Dog Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 That list guy on Twitter is being super irresponsible with it. It's just a list with no context. Being a douche isn't the same as being a rapist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 23 minutes ago, Mad Dog said: That list guy on Twitter is being super irresponsible with it. It's just a list with no context. Being a douche isn't the same as being a rapist. The ExposeWrestling account? Good intentions, but absolutely disorganized and haphazard execution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World's Worst Man Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 14 minutes ago, Mad Dog said: That list guy on Twitter is being super irresponsible with it. It's just a list with no context. Being a douche isn't the same as being a rapist. What do you mean? I am always delighted when merely immoral/unethical behaviour gets conflated with illegal behaviour. It's way too much like a witch hunt right now, however I'll be interested in seeing what comes of some of the serious allegations once things settle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Along with that, the Cornette/Stacy Stuff is bizarre and it will be interesting to see how many former OVW wrestlers/employees end up corroborating the claims, since it is claimed the behavior was well known amongst OVW employees and alumni. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted June 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Something like this has happened over here in Brazil. Tons of cities made their own #ExposedCities efforts, with lists and personal stories, and from what I could see, it was more about people talking about things they were too anxious or scared or traumatized to share before. I can see why people would raise their eyebrows at how people are going on about this, but at least over here, the accused parties didn't really face much scrutiny besides the exposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 9 minutes ago, World's Worst Man said: What do you mean? I am always delighted when merely immoral/unethical behaviour gets conflated with illegal behaviour. It's way too much like a witch hunt right now, however I'll be interested in seeing what comes of some of the serious allegations once things settle. I think so much shit is about to get flung that legitimate accusations will just get lost in the noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Mad Dog said: I think so much shit is about to get flung that legitimate accusations will just get lost in the noise. Exactly. Like I said in the other thread, criminal cases are held in a court of law and not on twitter for a reason. In a court of law somebody found guilty can truly be punished for their crime. In a court of law somebody found innocent can regain their reputation in civil court. On twitter there is just rumor and inuendo with no consequences for the guilty and no way for the innocent to clear their name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 9 minutes ago, joeg said: Exactly. Like I said in the other thread, criminal cases are held in a court of law and not on twitter for a reason. In a court of law somebody found guilty can truly be punished for their crime. In a court of law somebody found innocent can regain their reputation in civil court. On twitter there is just rumor and inuendo with no consequences for the guilty and no way for the innocent to clear their name. Yeah, social media and Reddit have a really bad track record of crime solving. The Boston Marathon bombing and that recent bike trail incidents are great examples of why people need to really be careful and think before they jump on things they see on social media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 1 hour ago, khawk20 said: Along with that, the Cornette/Stacy Stuff is bizarre and it will be interesting to see how many former OVW wrestlers/employees end up corroborating the claims, since it is claimed the behavior was well known amongst OVW employees and alumni. Janela made some reference to this in one of their back and forths a couple of months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migs Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Yeah, paging through that account is such a mess. There's a lot of brave people coming forward with stories (and receipts) being mixed with "I heard this guy is sketchy." Jimmy Havoc sounds like a real shitty boyfriend, but I feel a little bad for him that he's apparently on a list with someone who was propositioning 12 year olds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Mad Dog said: Janela made some reference to this in one of their back and forths a couple of months ago. DX eating bananas on commentary back in like 1997 on RAW was a dig at the infamous "Cornette likes it when his (first) wife shoves bananas up his ass" story that was well known at the time. Also someone on the WO board posted the confrontation between Cornette and Santino at a convention a few years back, and at one point Santino calls him a "fucking rapist". Wrestling's been known as , and sometimes proud of being, a scummy business forever. I always felt if the bill ever came due it would probably scorch-earth a lot of the business but whoever would be left standing could hopefully build it back to a higher standard (expecting people to not be sex creeps is not exactly a high standard, but it's where we're at now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 4 hours ago, Mad Dog said: Yeah, social media and Reddit have a really bad track record of crime solving. The Boston Marathon bombing and that recent bike trail incidents are great examples of why people need to really be careful and think before they jump on things they see on social media. Yes. Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was convicted and sentenced to death in a court of law, not on twitter. And I think you are referring to the biker who went viral for going crazy on a bunch of teenagers on the Capital Cresent Trail (which runs right behind my apartment building btw). He turned himself into police and is expected to be plead guilty to a lesser charge in a court of law where he will be sentenced. Its more that twitter and reddit have no track record of carrying out a punishment or exonerating somebody whose name has been smeared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Specific allegations aside, the sheer volume of stories coming out and being corroborated shows that sexual harassment clearly remains a systemic issue in pro wrestling. I am glad people are coming out. This was long overdue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 7 hours ago, Mad Dog said: That list guy on Twitter is being super irresponsible with it. It's just a list with no context. Being a douche isn't the same as being a rapist. This. This stuff turned into the DVDVR Sleaze Thread comes alive in Twitter in no time. Sorry, but some of this is ridiculous and may not only damage reputations for nothing but also, like it's been said drawn legit claim of legit abuse in the noise, which would be quite awful. Not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cactus Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Whilst I agree with you guys about being a douche isn't the same as a rapist, the alleged behaviour of Jimmy Havoc is textbook emotional abuse. It's more than simply being a douche. The guy can get in the bin. Tyler Bate being grouped in with these scumbags for asking a married woman to his hotel room is someone who I feel bad for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehschmidt Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 It certainly seems as if sorting out what is true and what is fiction is going to be the real issue with all of this. Joey Ryan's name is on that list, but literally nothing seems to have been posted about Joey Ryan, other than his name being on the list. Meanwhile, a young lady posted pictures of herself covered in bruises and told the story of what Jordan Devlin did to her. The David Starr stuff seems pretty cut and dry, and it looks like at least two other people have come out to back up the Cornette story. I've also seen several posts about whichever of the Crist brothers runs the training school in Ohio sending out dick pics and generally being a creeper. Which doesn't surprise me at all based on my limited interaction working shows with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Not a good time for the biz. Reminded me of this tweet. I hope for strong implications for the guilty parties and some semblance of justice/peace for those who suffered at their hands. There have always been plenty of shitty humans in this industry, but there is obviously a long way to go until they are weeded out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Blehschmidt said: It certainly seems as if sorting out what is true and what is fiction is going to be the real issue with all of this. Not necessarily fiction, but simply stuff that really aren't big deal at all. I mean, I'm sorry but some of the "unsollicited sex proposal" stuff is ridiculous. People being complete douchebag or flirting in the most heavy handed/dumb way ever isn't sexual harrassement and it dilutes the real issues. Some of it reeks of puritanism too, like : 1 hour ago, cactus said: Tyler Bate being grouped in with these scumbags for asking a married woman to his hotel room is someone who I feel bad for. Yeah, really now. However : 1 hour ago, cactus said: the alleged behaviour of Jimmy Havoc is textbook emotional abuse. It's more than simply being a douche. Ok, I haven't seen the details, nor am I interested. And I won't go into much details about what I'm gonna tell now (although probably too much) : for years I've been involved in a long relationship I am now able to call toxic if not straight up abusive at times. Again, not gonna go into details, but : demeaning comments to undermine whatever I was trying to accomplish by myself (unless it was to her benefit), strong alcohol issues including at times violent behavior toward me (including in public), being put regularly in impossible double-bind situations etc... . Which drove me to depression, nervous breakdowns, suicidal thoughts and whatnot. And this pretty much did not help the relationship that came after that one because I was such in a bad place mentally after years and years of eating shit (so this following one ended up quite abruptly and it took me years to get over it, not to mention watching TNA TV, yeah, that's no joke). After I finally broke up that was followed by straight up harrasment with stalking and emotional manipulation (including suicide blackmailing). So you see, lot of charming stuff. And it took a while *after the fact* to not only forgive but also realize that it was not "just" fucked up shit because she had an issue with alcohol, but straight up abusive relationship at times (see how I still use "at times", like I can't quite come to term with the fact it was ABUSIVE). Anyway. Yet, to me those are privates issues. I would have never tried to fuck up with her professional life because of it. It was nobody's business but mine and hers. It could have gotten much worse. It should have ended much much much sooner. And I won't say anything anymore about that, but really to me it kinda blurs the line between what constitute crimes/misdemeanors and private issues that can be quite damaging but have nothing to do with actual justice cases. And then, there's the issue of trying to reach some absolute "moral state" as part of the entertainment industry, which is a big wheel of the absolutely amoral capitalistic world we're leaving in. And so we get into really complex issues, and so we get back also to puritanism and whatever and all of it sounds so hypocritical as it pertains to that aspect of the issue. Because the real issue everywhere is domination, whatever form it takes. But anyway, this is not the place. And of course this is a complex issue, because WHY THE FUCK DO MEN ACT LIKE FUCKING DOUCHEBAGS SO OFTEN ? Really now. After three messages on Whatsapp you gotta ask if the girl want to blow you ? Or send a pic of your lovely genitals ? You really think that's the way you're gonna get pussy ? I don't even comprehend how their brain functions. It probably doesn't. So yeah, a clean up is more than necessary, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here. Thus far the cases that really strike me are Starr, Devlin and Cornette. But a lot of others probably are pretty serious too. Waiting on the brave people employed by WWE to say something, as I can't believe nothing ever happened there... (of course not). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 I agree the Starr, Devlin and Cornette stories seem to be the ones that jumped out at me. I haven't really looked at the Havok stuff so I don't know what that includes. The Cornette stuff last I saw had 3 people saying it so that one seems to have a lot of validity to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehschmidt Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 The only story I have seen about Havoc is that he punched a fan in the face at a bar, and when the fan told the promotion about it, they said he was probably just drunk and playing his character. So while it makes Havoc look like a sloppy drunk dickhead, it reflects far worse on the promotion IMO. Saw a story about Wolfgang taking pictures of little girls outside of a school. and the Matt Riddle story that is now out there is really ugly..... It will be very interesting to see what WWE does with all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 10 minutes ago, Blehschmidt said: and the Matt Riddle story that is now out there is really ugly..... Yikes, yeah that one is disturbing too. What the fuck. Hey, you thought pro-wrestling was gonna go back to "normal" after COVID ? Guess what... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Jack Gallagher now too. Rape accusations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Is there a master list anywhere so I can unfollow all these fuckers en masse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 1 minute ago, C.S. said: Is there a master list anywhere so I can unfollow all these fuckers en masse? There are lists but they are just throwing in anyone and everyone for anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Just now, Mad Dog said: There are lists but they are just throwing in anyone and everyone for anything. Yeah, I agree that it's a disorganized mess, but some of the stories - Riddle, Gallagher, the weirdo dumbfuck Dave Lagana, etc. - sound really bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.