Coffey Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 Nope, it wasn't. He tried to defend his shit. Got called out. Deleted the posts then locked his profile. Next will come blocking people that shit on him but the screenshots last forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 19 minutes ago, C.S. said: Is that an official NWA account or just a fan page? Either way, Corgan and the NWA should immediately vilify that post. (They won't, which is half the problem in wrestling right there, but they should.) Neither, they sell Mid Atlantic DVDs and I think they run fan conventions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 1 hour ago, C.S. said: Is that an official NWA account or just a fan page? Either way, Corgan and the NWA should immediately vilify that post. (They won't, which is half the problem in wrestling right there, but they should.) That account doesn’t have anything to do with Billy Corgan’s modern version of the NWA. I’m pretty sure that is the Twitter account of Gary Price the promoter who runs the Charlotte and Mid-Atlantic fan fests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirEdger Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 That seems to be the case. Bix responded to that tweet by calling him Gary if I'm not mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 5 hours ago, Coffey said: I took a screenshot because this will inevitably get deleted. This is the type of shit that gives pro-wrestling a bad name. Motherfuckers like this. Now, at least there's no ambiguity about this. Whoever write that is a piece of shit. Aries... ok... well... Again, when people are acting houlier than thou, it's never a good sign and I am *never* surprised when those kind of people end up being creeps and assholes, or more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonic Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 On 6/20/2020 at 10:54 AM, World's Worst Man said: The Benoit situation should have been the nail-in-the-coffin of hero worship within the pro-wrestling (and really every entertainment) industry. It's just such an unhealthy mindset, even if the targets of affection are actually decent human beings. I understand that people can't just flip a switch and decide to change their attitudes and emotions but to me it really is much better to enjoy art and entertainment for its own sake and to remain indifferent towards the performers other than how entertaining or skilled they are. Benoit was the end of that absurd idolization for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 Is it the worst, most heartbreaking week in pro-wrestling since the Benoit thing ? To me it is. And it's actually a lot worse when you think about it, it's not one guy doing a terrible thing, it's the veil being lifted off on a systemic issue. But we all kinda knew. Maybe not to that extent, and I was one thinking that the new generation was a whole lot better than the previous ones (wow, that comment sure did not aged well). I just hope this won't be swept under the rug and stop at the gates of the big dogs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 Joey Ryan's indie promotion is now history apparently. Good. He's clearly come out of this as one of the absolute worst shitheads. Hope he gets prison-time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 28 minutes ago, MoS said: Joey Ryan's indie promotion is now history apparently. Good. He's clearly come out of this as one of the absolute worst shitheads. Hope he gets prison-time. Yeah. It's amazing that with all of the bad that he has managed to stand out as an extra special scumbag in all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cactus Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 11 hours ago, Coffey said: This is all making me feel like shit as a life long fan. Not just because it's a fucking heinous, terrible tragedy but because I selfishly am feeling somewhat vindicated in my dislike in some of the names that have come out. How fucked up am I in the head if that's where my thoughts go to? I think a dude sucks as a pro-wrestler, they get outed as a predator & I'm like "yup." Awful line of thinking on my part. I'm questioning my fandom. The fact that people are still going through this is crazy. That's not even mentioning how many people are staying silent. Or whom died without their secrets ever coming to light. I certainly won't lose any sleep over guys like David Starr, Joey Ryan & Jimmy Havoc leaving the world of professional wrestling. But it's not worth all the trauma that these women have had to go through. I keep thinking about how Kylie Rae is always able to put on that smile for the camera and it just makes my blood boil thinking about the shit they've had to endure when there wasn't a camera, or a lot of them times when they were freaking children. I feel this, but in the other direction. When guys like Starr, Riddle and Ospreay were outed, my first thought is "Ah damn, they had so much potential.", which isn't right. 44 minutes ago, El-P said: Is it the worst, most heartbreaking week in pro-wrestling since the Benoit thing ? To me it is. And it's actually a lot worse when you think about it, it's not one guy doing a terrible thing, it's the veil being lifted off on a systemic issue. But we all kinda knew. Maybe not to that extent, and I was one thinking that the new generation was a whole lot better than the previous ones (wow, that comment sure did not aged well). I just hope this won't be swept under the rug and stop at the gates of the big dogs... Yeah, I wasn't watching when Benoit happened, but I stopped watching wrestling not too long after Eddie died. I felt my love had died for wrestling, and I feel similar to what has happened in the last few days. I haven't felt in the mood to watch as much compared to when all this came out, and I'm not sure if I feel entirely comfortable going to the local RevPro shows again once everything is back to normal. I was watching some classic wrestling from the 80's and the 90's before all this came out and I've always found it easy to justify watching that stuff despite all the horrid stuff going on backstage as it's all in the past and locker rooms are safe spaces now, which isn't anywhere near the truth. Things might be better now than a locker room in 1985, but we've still got a long way to go. I'm going to try and watch some classic joshi and hope those amazingly talented women can reignite my love for wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 This is obviously not in the same ballpark as some of the stuff described here, but the fact that Sammy made such a joke and everyone, including the interviewer, just ignored it and moved on really shows that the pro wrestling ecosystem is so toxic to women. No wonder so many wrestlers think they can get away with basically anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 Yea, definitely tasteless and disgusting and so gross. The joke of saying "I wanna rape her" was so weird to me the first time I heard it - which was about 8 years ago, from a 13-year old middle school student in my class who was referencing another teacher in the building (something along the lines of "Did you see what she was wearing today? Man, I wanted to rape her"). Obviously it was gross and vulgar then, but I also chalked it up to the student being a 13 year-old boy with issues related to impulsivity, attention-seeking behaviors, etc. I mean, it was a fucked-up thing to say, but when I shared the story, few were surprised that those words came from that student. The fact that a grown person would say it is so disappointing and ugly and vulgar. Using the word "rape" on top of just objectifying a woman is a double whammy of assholeness. I really wanted to like Sammy Guevara and even looked up his age - just in case I could somehow explain it away as "Well, he's only 20 so he says stupid shit" - but he's 27 years old. By that age, you should be smart enough not to (in vulgar terms) "say everything your penis tells you to." Even if he had said, "I visited the WWE and saw Sasha and she looked so hot," it'd still be problematic and immature, but you add in the idea of "She looked so hot that I wanted to assault her" and it is appalling. I agree that saying it is not in the same ballpark as sexually assaulting someone, but that also means that a sincere apology could mean something (whereas some of these "apologies," like the ones from Havoc and Joey Ryan, have been worthless to me). Over time, maybe I'll root for Sammy Guevara again - maybe he'll apologize, maybe he'll show maturity in some other way and I'll be able to see this joke as a lapse in judgment (lord knows I've had my own) - but, for now, yeah, I'm not going to be a cheerleader or supporter for him (just like I've kinda stopped rooting for guys with multiple DUIs or with a history of homophobic statements). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 I think the interview is from 4 years ago. Regardless, I would like to believe that by the age of 23, men would realise that saying "I want to rape her" is not just digusting, but actual sexual harassment in many places. Clearly, I am wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 1 hour ago, DMJ said: Even if he had said, "I visited the WWE and saw Sasha and she looked so hot," it'd still be problematic and immature, Hum... No. I'm sorry. No. Saying someone (men or women) is hot is neither immature nor problematic. Let's not be completely ridiculous now. That's completely insane. On the other hand : 1 hour ago, DMJ said: The joke of saying "I wanna rape her" was so weird to me the first time I heard it - When the sentence "I want to rape her" ever was a joke ? I mean, what ? First time I'm hearing this. But anyway. Yes, that's just an awful and dumb as fuck shit to say. Hopefully the guy doesn't speak that way today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 I don't have much to add here because I'm so distanced from modern wrestling. When we've talked about separating the artist from the art in years' past, the biggest stumbling block for people has always tended to be personal connection (as in I can't really watch Benoit but I can watch Invader I no problem, and those are both cases where the work actually has a connection to who they are or what they did). This is widespread, in everyone's face, horrific in a different way considering the breadth and nature of the acts and the victims and the people turning a blind eye or protecting this, and it comes at a time where wrestlers and fans are closer than ever. Social media and so many wrestlers coming out of fandom really broke that divide so these are people that a lot of you feel like you know. Moreover, as many of us are older, these are generally people our age or younger which gives everything a slightly different feel than maybe Lawler or Flair, whether it should or not. For those who are feeling terrible about their own reactions, we're all only human. You can't help how you feel but like Jerome said, it's good you're aware of it, and what matters is how you act in response to it. This is the time for the community to vet, for people who are engaged with current wrestling as fans to put their money and watching time in positive places, to foster talents that reach the hopefully (but apparently not) low bar of decency and responsibility. I think that this is a direction a lot of current fans (especially younger ones) were heading anyway, with such a focus on inclusion and diversity instead of just workrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, Matt D said: For those who are feeling terrible about their own reactions, we're all only human. You can't help how you feel but like Jerome said, it's good you're aware of it, and what matters is how you act in response to it. This is the time for the community to vet, for people who are engaged with current wrestling as fans to put their money and watching time in positive places, to foster talents that reach the hopefully (but apparently not) low bar of decency and responsibility. I think that this is a direction a lot of current fans (especially younger ones) were heading anyway, with such a focus on inclusion and diversity instead of just workrate. That's me BTW if anyone wonders (I'm not sure a lot of posters still active now actually know me by name). Yeah, agree about that statement. I've been vocal about really enjoying IMPACT for instance (despite knowing what I know about some people there, cognitive dissonance indeed for selfish reasons), but after these last few days and the sinking feeling (to quote The The), I'm not so sure what to think anymore. I'm waiting to see what they do with their next show and if they'll address the situation in some form. I can't see for the life of me them still featuring Joey Ryan, in the Cancel Culture gimmick no less (yeah, karma is a bitch like someone stated), on their upcoming programs... That being said, and after listening to the very interesting show by Meltz, which tried to paint the broader picture in all its complexity, I'm afraid it's gonna be hard because although some heads will fall, the heads wth the most power (and therefore the most abuse on their hands) probably won't until some people in position to do so step up, but these women also are the ones which will have the most to lose and will be the most scared to "really" speak up (as opposed to "show their support to the brave ones"). Still waiting to know about what the fuck happened with Ashley Massaro (because this one reeks of victim shaming and manipulation) for instance... So I cant say I'm very optimistic, sadly, and it will make for some pretty uncomfortable times watching pro-wrestling, knowing what we know but also knowing we still ignore a lot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothS Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 Gotta admit that I'm still reeling over David Starr (ironically where this all started). He was a guy that I thought was going to wrestle past the age of 50 (he is only 29), as his in-ring style was designed to ensure career longevity, and you blend that together with charisma, promos, character work, etc. The guy had it all in spades... and in one fell swoop it's now virtually all over for him... I know that the devastation from what happened with Chris Benoit should have been a real eye opener for all of us, but still, as a human being, one can't help but be extremely disappointed, & feel let down regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted June 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 He better not even mention the word "joke" in his apology. It will only make things worse for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 1 hour ago, El-P said: Hum... No. I'm sorry. No. Saying someone (men or women) is hot is neither immature nor problematic. Let's not be completely ridiculous now. That's completely insane. I don't think its "completely insane" to consider describing women by their attractiveness as problematic. You might not find it offensive. I, personally, don't find it super offensive. But if I was to ask you to describe your wife, girlfriend, or a co-worker and the first thing you say is, "She's super hot," it is objectification. When you emphasize the "eye candy" aspect of another human being, their cosmetic look, that's not cool. When I tell people about my wife, my first thoughts are that she is intelligent, funny, is super hard-working, laid back, and gets along with everybody she meets. I don't think of her measurements. When I tell people about female co-workers, I talk about their role in the school, their personality, maybe their attitude. I don't say, "My principal is Mrs. Soandso. She's about a 6, maybe a 7 after some drinks. She's really dedicated to being a mentor for other teachers." Honestly, I didn't listen to the whole interview so it could be taken out of context - maybe Sammy Guevara did talk about how Sasha is hot because its hot to be confident, talented, and a warm, kind person. If that was what he meant, then that's great. Unfortunately, it came off more like the kind of shit you'd find posted at r/WrestleFap, where when people are talking about Bayley's "assets," they're very clearly not talking about her work ethic, in-ring psychology, or how many Make-a-Wish dreams she fulfills each year. Also, on the idea of "I wanna rape her" being a joke, it is obviously not a "punchline joke," but it is a "joke" in the broader sense of being an absurd exaggeration. It is a "joke" because I believe Sammy Guevara or the 13 year-old kid in my class were saying the most extreme, over-the-top, hyperbolic, and disgusting version of "______ looked so good that I could barely contain my animal instincts." Its a joke the same way that in old cartoons, you'd see characters drooling when an attractive woman (or bunny) walked by. Its not dissimilar to the way that people have made jokes about wanting to kill Donald Trump or another politician or celebrity. The "joke" is that your hatred for this person is so deep, you want the worst, most extremely violent thing possible to happen to them. Do these people actually desire this realistically? Of course not. If even a small percentage did, there would be attempts at their life by the hour. Maybe "joke" isn't the right word for it, but "I wanna rape her" was, to my ears, not meant literally. It was still disgusting and vile talk, but hyperbole is undeniably a form of satire/humor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cactus Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 Honestly, what Sammy said was incredible gross and shitty, but I don't think he should be fired for it like some on Twitter are calling for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothS Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 Now Sammy Guevara. Man, the future of pro wrestling does not look so hot to me. I will stick even closer to Puroresu, but then when I think of what happened to Hana Kimura... I just don't know what to think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 What Sammy said was disgusting and he needs to apologize, but let's not lump being a dumbass edgelord on a podcast nobody listened to in with criminal assault and abuse of power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButchReedMark Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 Wrestling is toxic and I'm pretty sure I don't like it anymore. I don't think I've even watched any properly since the New Year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 1 hour ago, DMJ said: I don't think its "completely insane" to consider describing women by their attractiveness as problematic. You might not find it offensive. I, personally, don't find it super offensive. But if I was to ask you to describe your wife, girlfriend, or a co-worker and the first thing you say is, "She's super hot," it is objectification. When you emphasize the "eye candy" aspect of another human being, their cosmetic look, that's not cool. What if the first thing I say about one of my co-workers is "She's dumb as fuck." ? So that is ok. But "She's hot as fuck" isn't. I'm sorry but I eluded to this before and that's something I don't intend on developing much more here, but to me that has everything to do with a very conflicted relationship to everything relating to the body in society that is still very much ingrained in puritanism. And I won't go further because PWO. Plus and if I may, it's not how language works . "She's super hot" can definitely be objectifying as it can also absolutely not be, everything depends of so many elements : the intent put behind the proposition, the social context, the tone of the voice, whom it is said to, the relationship between whom is producing the sentence and who it is destined to, is the person referred to is present of not when it's been said, what is the relationship between the person who says it and the person referred to etc etc... There's no essentialisation of the language for ideologic purposes (even if the motives come from a good place). 1 hour ago, DMJ said: Also, on the idea of "I wanna rape her" being a joke, it is obviously not a "punchline joke," but it is a "joke" in the broader sense of being an absurd exaggeration. It is a "joke" because I believe Sammy Guevara or the 13 year-old kid in my class were saying the most extreme, over-the-top, hyperbolic, and disgusting version of "______ looked so good that I could barely contain my animal instincts." Ok.I thought for a moment that it was a "thing" or a trend with young boys to say "I wanna rape her" to basically say a girl was super hot or something, which would have been super disturbing to say the very least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted June 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, cactus said: Honestly, what Sammy said was incredible gross and shitty, but I don't think he should be fired for it like some on Twitter are calling for. Nah, if the criteria for getting fired is saying stupid and gross shit, very few would have their jobs. He should, at the very least, give a proper, thoughtful apology, and follow through on the words he utters there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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