AEW Dynamite - August 12 2020

[sek69]

3 hours ago, Stiva said:

I really hope this women's tag tournament gives the division a renewed focus because Shida isn't doing it for me as champ

I mean, different strokes for different folks and all that, but Shida's been one of my favorite parts of Dynamite as of late. She's not getting to do a lot because of everything going on, but she's been doing what she can with what she's been given.

[Blehschmidt]

Yeah, Shida is easily my favorite female talent on the roster. I do wish they could have had her program with Penelope last longer than a week though.

[Stiva]

I just don't see it in-ring. She carries herself well and is a solid babyface but I can't remember a singles match that she's had that has been any good. It's a lot of her opponent waiting around as she lines up moves and she doesn't seem to have chemistry with anyone else on the roster.

[SirEdger]

I would argue that her match with Penelope Ford was pretty good a few weeks back. But yeah, she doesn't seem to have the same chemistry Riho has with pretty much everyone on that women's roster.

[Alucard]

Yeah I thought the Penelope match at Fyter Fest was excellent.
the Nyla title change at Double or Nothing was awesome and my favorite match of that show aside from the Stampede.
the Britt Baker nose break match was amazing, Britt's best ever IMO, and made me pumped to see a rematch/eventual feud between the two. I think Britt is who eventually dethrones Shida. but yeah I absolutely love Shida and think she is one of the best in the world currently. She always looks great even in her squashes. 

[El-P]

Terrific show again.

Dark Order vs Young Bucks was just an awesome match. Evil Uno has so much cool little idiosyncrasies between the big spots, way underrated worker.

Cody vs Scorpio Sky was terrific too and they really made it a big time feel match with the entourage of Cody. The Brodie Lee match should be epic. Good things in the future for Sky too.

The MJF segment was perfectly done and really made me think of some of the peak Austin segment with Mox at the end.

Tully is an asshole in 2020. You know, despite the IMPACT debacle and whatever person she is IRL, I'd still enjoy Tessa in AEW, not gonna lie (probably won't happen). I was waiting for someone pointing out how Ricky was working when he put over the Young Bucks.  

Omega & Page vs Jurassik Express was excellent, Luchasaurus has looked better in later weeks, maybe because he has faced such terrific workers too. Gotta love Omega & Page's answers to the "greatest tag-team ever" question. Yeah, that's how you put over the NOW.

Shida is great and again, Heather Monroe is a good catch for AEW if they eventually do something with her (as opposed to, well you know). That submission was quite cool. BTW Vickie Guerrero in kayfabe is a shitty manager, Shida is right there and she does not even do a thing, while Nyla is basically a spectator at this point. They are clearly coasting with the women right now. I agree they should have kept on with the Penelope feud to build to a rematch at All-Out.

Archer & Jake's segment was funny, again, gotta love Jake totally impervious to Archer murdering guys like a lunatic in the background.

I agree the main event was not as good as their previous match, and I do think Jericho did not go along Orange's pin combination well, just like he bumped funny on the dragonscrew. Still quite a good match, but not great, and it's way too bad Orange's first huge win has to go down without a crowd, it loses so much that way. Also, is it me of the timing was a bit off, they went off the air so quickly after the win.

Yeah, JR kinda sucks, honestly. I guess Excalibur is back for the 22, well hopefully because he's badly missed.

[Cowboy Hats 4.0]

3 hours ago, El-P said:

Also, is it me of the timing was a bit off, they went off the air so quickly after the win.

I thought they might be in trouble when it was one hour 59 minutes into the show and Jericho/Cassidy were still going at it. They wrapped it up shortly, but they cut it real close. Something definitely looked off with the pin, but I thought Taz covered for it well enough, labeling it something that I hadn't heard of before. Now, maybe that was the real name for it and it was a botch, but good enough for me.

3 hours ago, El-P said:

I guess Excalibur is back for the 22, well hopefully because he's badly missed.

Is there a reason for his absence? I saw something here a few weeks ago about a 15+ year old promo resurfacing, but hadn't seen any follow up. Did they sit him out for a few weeks because of that?

On 8/12/2020 at 9:36 PM, sek69 said:

I'm guessing the new Horsemen-type stable will end up being FTR, Spears, and ?....having Spears involved screams "guy getting turned on with the quickness" though. 

Doesn't it seem like Page getting together with FTR?

[El-P]

23 minutes ago, Cowboy Hats 4.0 said:

 but I thought Taz covered for it well enough, labeling it something that I hadn't heard of before. Now, maybe that was the real name for it and it was a botch, but good enough for me.

It was the real name of the pin combination Orange used, but it was semi-botched by Jericho. Since it wasn't a pin you'd see everyday on AEW TV, it served as a cover indeed, yet the finish did look botched.

24 minutes ago, Cowboy Hats 4.0 said:

Is there a reason for his absence? I saw something here a few weeks ago about a 15+ year old promo resurfacing, but hadn't seen any follow up. Did they sit him out for a few weeks because of that?

That's pretty much it. Waiting for Cancel Culture dweebs to pass onto the next fake outrage I'm guessing.

[Migs]

The pin is called the Mouse Trap (which I believe is what Taz correctly called it), and it was essentially his finisher outside of AEW. Haven't sat and compared a proper one and what happened Wednesday, but it definitely looked like Jericho fell wrong with it, and it sort of screwed up the flow of the move, which usually looks like a pretty elegant pin. Probably not a huge problem because it hasn't been used in AEW a lot, so it likely wasn't an obvious botch to most.

[rovert]

On 8/13/2020 at 3:11 AM, El Dragon said:

Thought Jericho looked like dog shit in the main event, being honest. His Dragon Screw sells were bad and he clearly fell the wrong way on the roll up at the finish, I've seen Orange do that move before.

Jericho absolutely did. He needs to cut down on the drinking and whatever else he does.

But his defence and the roster's defence in regards to this episode which I thought was really meh. They were wrestling outdoors in the Florida heat. Several wrestlers on Twitter made reference to it over the last few weeks. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Wait up, Ricky Morton was on AEW? Who would have thought it?

[WingedEagle]

I wish I could say I see what everyone else seemingly does in MJF but week in and week out he comes across as someone playing professional wrestler.  Perhaps he'd work as a mouthpiece or manager for someone that comes across as remotely dangerous or physical, but he's almost at the point where I fast forward right through his segments.

[El-P]

1 hour ago, ohtani's jacket said:

Wait up, Ricky Morton was on AEW? Who would have thought it?

Too late. Comedy is timing.

BTW, he had been there WAY before too.

[ohtani's jacket]

It's okay. It's Twitter. It's wrestling. It's a work like sumo. 

[El-P]

Last basho had the best booking ever. That's how you book a comeback and babyface turn.

[Coffey]

7 hours ago, WingedEagle said:

I wish I could say I see what everyone else seemingly does in MJF but week in and week out he comes across as someone playing professional wrestler.  Perhaps he'd work as a mouthpiece or manager for someone that comes across as remotely dangerous or physical, but he's almost at the point where I fast forward right through his segments.

I'm right there with you in that boat, man. To me, it just comes off as really corny when he's trying to pretend he's a 1980's heel in 2020. Nothing he does makes me think he's genuinely an asshole. It reminds me of an SNL character during a skit trying his best not to corpse while the studio audience is laughing & hoping for him to break. If that makes sense. Or to reinvigorate an old NWA Powerrr talking point... a COSplay wrestler.

I'm sure part of that is on me as a fan. There is definitely a disconnect there though. I actually prefer, and I'm sure this is an unpopular opinion, Richard Holiday from MLW. MJF's old Dynasty stable running mate. I buy Holiday more as a smug, conceited prick than I buy MJF as a genuine asshole.

I also think that how a heel operates in the modern era has just fundamentally & drastically changed. The characters have to change the same way society changes. Some things in pro-wrestling are timeless & stand the test of time. Others do not. I don't think cheap heat works anymore. A wrestler coming out & insulting the local sports team, in example, is just fucking lame & makes them look like a geek.

If everyone knows it's a work & is "in on it" - suspension of disbelief is a lot harder. So how do you get heat as a bad guy when everyone knows you're not really a bad guy? You have to make them think you really are a bad guy. And I just don't think anyone is willing to do that in the social media, gotta-move-merch era. Promotions themselves aren't willing to push the envelop or rock the boat either. So instead of coming off like a serious thing that people can get sucked into, like a movie, it comes off like parents watching their kids in a school play. But how do you push the envelop or rock the boat without being tasteless & getting "cancelled." That is the question.

Nyla Rose is a better heel in AEW than MJF.

[sek69]

3 minutes ago, Coffey said:

A wrestler coming out & insulting the local sports team, in example, is just fucking lame & makes them look like a geek.

Like anything, it depends on the execution. 

Going out and saying that the popular team in the city you're in sucks/deserved to lose is lame cheap heat.

Elias going out and poking Seattle fans for losing their basketball team (which even though it's been years is still a very sensitive subject in that town) got the most visceral heel reaction anyone in wrestling had been able to garner in years. 

So basically even stereotypical lazy cheap heat can be effective if some creativity put into it. 

MJF puts works into being a heel, he keeps in character not only on social media but in public appearances. You might not like it or buy into it, but he's not going to be the guy who posts pictures hanging out at the bar with the person he's feuding with. 

[WingedEagle]

5 hours ago, Coffey said:

I'm right there with you in that boat, man. To me, it just comes off as really corny when he's trying to pretend he's a 1980's heel in 2020. Nothing he does makes me think he's genuinely an asshole. It reminds me of an SNL character during a skit trying his best not to corpse while the studio audience is laughing & hoping for him to break. If that makes sense. Or to reinvigorate an old NWA Powerrr talking point... a COSplay wrestler.

I'm sure part of that is on me as a fan. There is definitely a disconnect there though. I actually prefer, and I'm sure this is an unpopular opinion, Richard Holiday from MLW. MJF's old Dynasty stable running mate. I buy Holiday more as a smug, conceited prick than I buy MJF as a genuine asshole.

I also think that how a heel operates in the modern era has just fundamentally & drastically changed. The characters have to change the same way society changes. Some things in pro-wrestling are timeless & stand the test of time. Others do not. I don't think cheap heat works anymore. A wrestler coming out & insulting the local sports team, in example, is just fucking lame & makes them look like a geek.

If everyone knows it's a work & is "in on it" - suspension of disbelief is a lot harder. So how do you get heat as a bad guy when everyone knows you're not really a bad guy? You have to make them think you really are a bad guy. And I just don't think anyone is willing to do that in the social media, gotta-move-merch era. Promotions themselves aren't willing to push the envelop or rock the boat either. So instead of coming off like a serious thing that people can get sucked into, like a movie, it comes off like parents watching their kids in a school play. But how do you push the envelop or rock the boat without being tasteless & getting "cancelled." That is the question.

Nyla Rose is a better heel in AEW than MJF.

Nailed it.  Perhaps he'd work as a Rick Rudecito.  Just about every other heel on the roster feels more natural in their roles.  Even the Dark Order by virtue of how they acknowledge who everyone is under the mask.  This guy just plays a part on television.

[Log]

On 8/15/2020 at 9:51 PM, WingedEagle said:

Nailed it.  Perhaps he'd work as a Rick Rudecito.  Just about every other heel on the roster feels more natural in their roles.  Even the Dark Order by virtue of how they acknowledge who everyone is under the mask.  This guy just plays a part on television.

I’m not the biggest MJF fan but saying he “just plays a part on television” is just plain wrong. There are numerous videos out there of the guy being a total dick to fans and kids and talking shit to other wrestlers in appearances, on social media, etc. 

Say what you will about the guy’s stuff on tv (like I said, I’m not the biggest fan), but he is definitely committed to being a heel 24/7. 

[Coffey]

It's not like I'm completely writing him off, either. Dude is only 24-years-old. He's still WAY ahead of the curve for his age. And will only get better.

[WingedEagle]

14 hours ago, Coffey said:

It's not like I'm completely writing him off, either. Dude is only 24-years-old. He's still WAY ahead of the curve for his age. And will only get better.

Agreed.  Let's not write off anyone who's 24.  But this idea that he's a top performer in today's business in any capacity is something I don't see.  He seems incredibly confident and can speak.  If he can vary his delivery, tone and attitude he may become a can't miss guy on the mic.  In the ring?  I haven't seen hours and hours of him but would like to see him perform and be presented to come across as a physical force.  Someone who's actions have consequences for babyfaces.  That's not something I've seen from him outside of perhaps the Jungle Boy match. 

[Coffey]

7 hours ago, WingedEagle said:

Agreed.  Let's not write off anyone who's 24.  But this idea that he's a top performer in today's business in any capacity is something I don't see.  He seems incredibly confident and can speak.  If he can vary his delivery, tone and attitude he may become a can't miss guy on the mic.  In the ring?  I haven't seen hours and hours of him but would like to see him perform and be presented to come across as a physical force.  Someone who's actions have consequences for babyfaces.  That's not something I've seen from him outside of perhaps the Jungle Boy match. 

I've read a lot of comparisons between MJF & heels of yesteryear. I have to say though, the guy he reminds me the most of, is Rick "The Model" Martel. During his cocky, confident phase where he was doing Arrogance perfume. Martel was a lot better in the ring of course, but Martel during that era, was already in his mid-30's. Already had the AWA run. Already did the early WWF tag team stuff. And his debut was in the early 70's. So that was almost twenty years into his wrestling career. Twenty years ago, MJF was four years old. lol

It'll be interesting to watch MJF grow as a performer & see where he's at in a decade, for sure.