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2020 Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame

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On 10/3/2020 at 6:39 PM, MoS said:

By traditional metrics, Cena was the last North American worker who should be in.

The Elite sold out All In and MSG basically on their strength and launched an entire promotion. The Bucks/Kenny/Cody will all have at least something of a draw argument.

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It just seems really unfair to hold it against modern WWE candidates that the company they work for discourages any single person being a draw  as opposed to THE BRAND.

Like,  there's never really been a time in history where the industry leader actively works toward making sure no one gets over enough to be irreplaceable.  

How can you fairly judge anyone who's in that environment as opposed to someone from past eras where every company's #1 goal was to build the biggest stars. 

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I think a lot of the guys in WWE need to leave to truly evaluate their cases. Moxley left and I feel only helped his case since he's been on top of a brand that consistently draws 100k+ PPV buys, and apart from one segment, his segments always increase viewership (at least that's how I remember it from all the quarter-hour breakdowns). Not to mention the improvement in his ring-work.

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1 hour ago, Migs said:

The Elite sold out All In and MSG basically on their strength and launched an entire promotion. The Bucks/Kenny/Cody will all have at least something of a draw argument.

I don't follow modern wrestling too closely, but wasn't the MSG show after the Elite dropped out of ROH due to the formation of AEW?

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50 minutes ago, Robert S said:

I don't follow modern wrestling too closely, but wasn't the MSG show after the Elite dropped out of ROH due to the formation of AEW?

It ended up that way, yes, but the MSG show was intended to follow up on All In and was supposed to be headlined by a Omega-Okada IWGP title match.

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3 hours ago, Migs said:

The Elite sold out All In and MSG basically on their strength and launched an entire promotion. The Bucks/Kenny/Cody will all have at least something of a draw argument.

Yeah this is a fair point, even Mox has a good shout.

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Torres is a super borderline candidate for me but I always edge more towards "no" than "yes". He's superseded, greatly, as a draw in that era by Baron Michele Leone who's never made it onto the ballot. He's superseded greatly for longevity, and is around the same level on historical significance & in-ring ability, by Bobby Managoff, who's also never made it onto the ballot despite many historians making his case over previous years. If those two are considered too borderline to get in, then I'm afraid so is Torres. 

For the historical candidates section, I'll be voting for Rocky Johnson, June Byers, and probably Cowboy Bob Ellis. I say "probably" for the latter because I need to double check his drawing power was as strong as I remember it being.  

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On 10/2/2020 at 7:38 PM, MoS said:

He literally was slotted in the main event so he would not overshadow Rock and Cena with his overness. I will definitely take the point about Ronda being more important, but to equate Miz and Becky is ridiculous. Does this also apply to Daniel Bryan's main event too? Why would Becky v. Charlotte main event when Ronda v. Becky was the main feud and the hottest feud the promotion had?

I wasn't equating them as stars, my point was I don't see being in the main event as some sort of big accomplishment or anything.  My point about Becky vs Charlotte was that Becky doesn't find herself in the main event without Rousey around.  Ronda was what made the whole ''women's revolution'' real to Vince. 

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Sent my ballot to Dave a few days ago. I'll post it here in case anyone else is interested (if any of my choices confuse people, just ask and I'll explain my rationale): 

 I FOLLOWED THE HISTORICAL PERFORMERS ERA CANDIDATES
June Byers
Cowboy Bob Ellis
Rocky Johnson

I FOLLOWED THE MODERN PERFORMERS IN U.S/CANADA CANDIDATES
Bill Goldberg
Rick & Scott Steiner

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN JAPAN CANDIDATES

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN MEXICO CANDIDATES
Medico Asesino

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN EUROPE/AUSTRALIA/NEW ZEALAND/PACIFIC ISLANDS/AFRICA
Spyros Arion
Dominic DeNucci
Billy Joyce
George Kidd

NON-WRESTLERS
Dave Brown
Morris Sigel
Ted Turner
Stanley Weston

I also recommended adding Dory Dixon to the Mexico section next year & Johnny Doyle to the non-wrestler section. Doyle, for me, is a no-brainer. Too much success in too many territories for too long a timeframe. He's forgotten because he passed away in 1969.

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On 10/6/2020 at 8:29 PM, ethantyler said:

Torres is a super borderline candidate for me but I always edge more towards "no" than "yes". He's superseded, greatly, as a draw in that era by Baron Michele Leone who's never made it onto the ballot. He's superseded greatly for longevity, and is around the same level on historical significance & in-ring ability, by Bobby Managoff, who's also never made it onto the ballot despite many historians making his case over previous years. If those two are considered too borderline to get in, then I'm afraid so is Torres. 

For the historical candidates section, I'll be voting for Rocky Johnson, June Byers, and probably Cowboy Bob Ellis. I say "probably" for the latter because I need to double check his drawing power was as strong as I remember it being.  

The problem is that wrestlers from that era, born before 1920, have never been real ballot candidates at all. Almost every inductee from that era was either part of the original class or put in by Dave.

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3 hours ago, Al said:

The problem is that wrestlers from that era, born before 1920, have never been real ballot candidates at all. Almost every inductee from that era was either part of the original class or put in by Dave.

Which should tell you how Dave feels about Torres. He's borderline. Some historians campaign super hard for him and others, like me, are in the "meh" category. 

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I had a silly thought: wouldn't the Wild Samoans be decent candidates going by influence? Just consider the list of wrestlers, that would have never stepped into the ring without them:

Family: Roman Reigns, Yokozuna, Rikishi, Samu, Tonga Kid, Umaga, Rosey, The Usos, Jacob Fatu, LA Smooth, Manu, Sean Maluta, ...

Trainees (going by cagematch): Michael PS Hayes, Batista, Kidman, Rocco Rock, Kanyon, Virgil, Snitsky, ...

Not all guys on this list turned out to be stars, but there quite some good names on this list.

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Hey everyone, especially to the WON HOF Voters,

Detlef from the VOW Discord and myself are collecting HOF ballots similar to what writers do with the Baseball HOF ballots to track who is potentially going into the HOF this year.

If you are an Observer HOF voter and do not mind having your ballot public, you can PM me your ballot. If you want to be anonymous but still have your ballot public, that is totally fine.

We have over 20 ballots already as many voters have either revealed their ballots already or through PM/DM.

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A couple of weeks ago, he said that more people voted for Japanese candidates than ever before. That has me pessimistic about the prospects for Taue and Akiyama since more people voting makes it harder to the get the necessary percentage of votes. Also, he said last week that the HOF issue would have bios of two historical figures that most today know little about. That leads me to believe that at least two of the historical performers got in. Take your guess as to which ones.

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It's finally out. The inductees:

Medico Asesino
Karloff Lagarde
Kenny Omega
Jun Akiyama
Dan Koloff

Kazuchika Okada debuts on the ballot next year, and he's obviously a slam-dunk pick. Also on the ballot for the first time: Nikki Bella. In fairness, she's probably a stronger candidate than Big Daddy.

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Waiting for the incoming shitstorm about Kenny Omega in 5... 4... 3...

(the guy was involved in the three greatest pro-wrestling matches I've ever seen in 30 years of watching pro-wrestling, he's half the match that made AEW possible, I have no qualms about this, that is if I cared one bit about such a thing as a HoF)

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Omega being in makes perfect sense. He drew money in Japan for DDT. He drew money in Japan and America for New Japan and his popularity was part of the reason for AEW coming into existence. He's been in countless great matches including legendary series with Okada, Naito and Jericho. But when he's just in the precipice of getting a proper main event title run in a major US promotion for the first time, I think would've made sense to just wait for another year or two to see how that plays out as well because it's clearly going to be a major part of his career.

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In a year that was looking like one of the weakest of all time (voting patterns had guys like Don Owen & Sputnik Monroe as favorites to get in), the final inductees have surprised on the upside. Those are 5 good names that are hard to argue against. Its been a good year for the voters. Job well done.  

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1 hour ago, FMKK said:

Omega being in makes perfect sense. He drew money in Japan for DDT. He drew money in Japan and America for New Japan and his popularity was part of the reason for AEW coming into existence. He's been in countless great matches including legendary series with Okada, Naito and Jericho. But when he's just in the precipice of getting a proper main event title run in a major US promotion for the first time, I think would've made sense to just wait for another year or two to see how that plays out as well because it's clearly going to be a major part of his career.

Yeah, I'm certainly in agreement that Omega is a hall of famer, but it feels really strange to be inducting someone when they're clearly still mid-prime.

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By the same token Roman Reigns apparently falls off the ballot with less than 10%, and it seems like an issue for that to happen when someone is actively building their resume.

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