WALTER

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

Boss Rock said:

"Was a relatively obscure indie name who exploded over the last four years. Fantastic juggernaut and final boss type with some of the most physical matches in recent years. Might be the greatest chopper ever and his overall offensive game is among the best in the world today. Every WALTER match is a brutal spectacle."

[Quentin]

Top half guy for me. He’s good in 2008, already has a great match under his belt by 2009, and by 2011-2012 he starts feeling like one of the best wrestlers in the world and that never stops, all the way up until now where 2017 through today he has a case for being the best wrestler on the planet. Elite tag team guy, all time great rivalry with David Starr, the best modern monster that wrestling has had and someone that thrives in those AMBITION settings too. I’ll come back here at various points with pre-2017 WALTER recommendations 

[Reel]

I think by the time 2026 comes around he'll have a pretty compelling case. Things can happen, but with the style he works and the way he's booked/carries himself, he seems like he's just going to keep putting on on these intense, physical, power struggle matches for as long as he wants to. 

[Marksman]

I really need to check out some of his early stuff, because just from the little I've seen of him, I feel he could end up incredibly high for me (depending on how the next five years go.) Reel sums it up - he's someone who puts on brutal spectacles of matches and has me glued to the screen. 

[WingedEagle]

Another lock even if you only look at his work in WXW and Progress.  Haven't given him enough though to consider where'd place but he'll be there.

Some recs:

Walter vs. Ilja Dragunov (16 Carat Gold Finals, WXW 16 Carat Gold Night 3 3/12/2017)

Walter vs. Daisuke Sekimoto (WXW 3/3/2012)

Walter vs. Will Ospreay (OTT 10/13/2018)

Walter vs. Zack Sabre Jr. (Progress 10/28/2018)

Walter vs. Timothy Thatcher (Progress Chapter 62 1/28/2018)

Big Van Walter & Robert Dreissker vs. Axel Dieter Jr. & Da Mack (WXW 11/16/2013)

Matt Riddle vs. Walter (Progress Chapter 46 3/26/2017)

Jordan Devlin vs. Walter (OTT Wrestlerama 2 8/18/2018)

Walter vs. David Starr (WXW 10/28/2017)

Walter vs. Matt Riddle (WXW 16 Carat Gold Night 3 3/12/2017)

Big Daddy Walter & Zack Sabre Jr. vs. reDRagon (WXW 10/4/2015)

Matt Riddle vs. Walter (Progress Chapter 51 7/9/2017)

Walter vs. Pete Dunne (WXW 7/22/2018)

Walter & Timothy Thatcher vs. Ilja Dragunov & David Starr (WXW 8/31/2018)

Walter vs. Tyler Bate (Progress 9/30/2018)

Walter & Timothy Thatcher vs. The Briscoes (WXW Tag Team League Night 1 10/6/2017)

Walter & Timothy Thatcher vs. Jurn Simmons & David Starr (Tag Team League Finals, WXW Tag Team League Night 3 10/8/2017)

Walter & Timothy Thatcher vs. Shingo Takagi & Ilja Dragunov (PWG BOLA Night 1 9/14/2018)

Walter vs. Adam Cole (EVOLVE 107 6/24/2018)

 

[Clayton Jones]

Majorly back the Bate Progress match and the PWG tag. WALTER isn't on my rough draft but he's not far off and he has time on his side.

[Ed.]

Big fan and he'll finish high for me, potentially top 10.  I think he was one of the best wrestlers of the 2010s and certainly around 2016-2018 he was definitely BITW level for me.

Two worries I have for him is firstly that there's a ceiling to how well he can do in WWE because I don't see him working out well on the main roster if he ever gets called up, so NXT might be his level in this company and eventually no matter how good you are, acts get stale in NXT especially when he's 2 years into his title run.  So big question marks for me about what the next 5 years might look like for him.  And then secondly, I have no desire to watch the David Starr stuff back again as much as I loved it at the time and could see others having the same stumbling block if you wanted to look back at his past.  Walter has enough quality matches if you take the Starr stuff off his CV, but I do think it was a real jewel in his crown that he had this rivalry for years with match by match psychology and drama that hit on another level compared to his other matches.  I love his matches against Ilja for example, but I can't say there's a tonne of variety in them or they hit me on the same emotional level.  

I have some pre-2013 blindspots with him, but I doubt I'd discover something that would significantly change my feelings on him or his ranking.  I think it's the next 5 years that can change that arrow up or down.

[Ma Stump Puller]

Absolutely on the top 100, especially with his current WWE run of having great matches with guys who haven't had a great match in years. He was already a really solid pick for me based on his wealth of work already, the fact he's continued to do so for a long while shows a elite consistency that I think will only get better and better as he moves up the card and gets more chances to show his stuff. At this point he kinda can't be ignored when it comes to being somewhere in that 100. 

 

 

[KawadaSmile]

Honestly just the past 10 months are already enough to give him a shout-out in this type of list.

He had two consecutive MOTYC against Sheamus and had the best match this year's Wrestlemania. He not only is a great big match worker, but also works great TV matches against people like Riddick Moss, who needes great showings.

A top tier worker. Certainly top 5 in the USA the past year.

[Tetsujin]

His 2018 is one of those years you just have to try and watch everything he was a part of, just like Kobashi's 1998 or Aja's 1994 for example. Just for that, everybody should consider him.

Then you add everything he has achieved berore and (specially) after that, and you get one of the absolute best wrestlers of our generation and one I can't see outside my 2036 list, once most of his career has probably already happen.

[Mr JMML]

Walter is already a top 100 wrestler for me, just watch his 2017, he was the best wrestler of the best year in Europe in recent times. 

He has been a great wrestler for 10 years and counting. 

vs Daisuke Sekimoto 2012 

vs Ilja Dragunov 2017 

vs Tyler Bate 2019 

Add to that his amazing tag team run with Timothy Thatcher as Ringkampf, he is one of those wrestlers who would succeed in every era. 

[Microstatistics]

WALTER/Gunther seems like one of the major contenders from the grouping of wrestlers who debuted this century.

He sticks out since he didn't follow the conventional major US promotion/Japan route during the initial phase of his career but instead wrestled across comparatively smaller promotions in Germany, England, and the US . This indie run could suffer from a slight lack of focus, with matches often being less than sum of their parts. On the other hand, while his ceiling might have been near ***3/4 (though the Thatcher 1/28/2018 match broke through), he rarely delivered a sub-par match and that too against a wide assortment of opponents. 

I feel he matured once he joined WWE/NXT and has started to hit higher highs more consistently, without sacrificing his basal level. For instance, the McIntyre match from Summerslam this month was the most generic Gunther match possible and was still quite serviceable. The shift to Smackdown/Raw also demonstrated his ability to construct effective television matches against essentially anyone.

I am also a big fan of his character's philosophy: A no-nonsense approach to pro wrestling where it is like a respectable sport built around winning and defending championships, ensured by brutalization of opponents. It's a breath of fresh air, particularly in the contemporary era where wrestler priorities can be blatantly telegraphed (i.e., garner "critical acclaim"). His commanding aura is also something no one aside from Brock Lesnar can match. 

He does have signature stuff he incorporates into virtually every match but so did Santo & Misawa & Flair to some extent. Furthermore, most of the offense looks good so you can't knock him too much for it. 

So you have a great big-match wrestler AND a great TV worker, a very high floor, high-end output (particularly in the last 5-6 years), strong fundamentals, an atypical career trajectory and a refreshing outlook and style. Top 25 is ambitious but doesn't seem too outlandish. 

 

[El McKell]

11 hours ago, Microstatistics said:

This indie run could suffer from a slight lack of focus, with matches often being less than sum of their parts. On the other hand, while his ceiling might have been near ***3/4

 

I really don't agree with this sentiment, seeing all but one of his OTT matches live i can say i think ***3/4 might have been the floor with the Osprey match being a ****1/2 star affair. There's no lack of focus with these for me with a clear booking plan in place for him, being the 1st person to pin Devlin in 2 years, winning the belt, beating Starr, losing it back to Devlin & being a key part of the reason for Starr's turn on Devlin. Expertly booked stuff with Walter playing his role perfectly and having several great matches (devlin's best matches), shame that it included a pair of guys who abused women but that's not WALTER's fault

[Mr JMML]

On 8/27/2023 at 10:55 AM, El McKell said:

I really don't agree with this sentiment, seeing all but one of his OTT matches live i can say i think ***3/4 might have been the floor with the Osprey match being a ****1/2 star affair. There's no lack of focus with these for me with a clear booking plan in place for him, being the 1st person to pin Devlin in 2 years, winning the belt, beating Starr, losing it back to Devlin & being a key part of the reason for Starr's turn on Devlin. Expertly booked stuff with Walter playing his role perfectly and having several great matches (devlin's best matches), shame that it included a pair of guys who abused women but that's not WALTER's fault

It's the best part of his indie career. Devlin and Starr are terrible people but the matches he had are great.

[Dav'oh]

Where do people stand on the "Where's the art in hitting people full-force in a worked sport?" viewpoint? I stand with Bret.

WALTER matches are just homo-erotic violence porn. People are getting off on the pain - me, included. BMMSM, 'n all.

 

[KawadaSmile]

I think the magic lies on which strikes you are working, and which ones you are just stiffing the other. Chops are fairly inocuous and G00NTA has great ones, loud and always leaving a mark. He tends to be a bit less rough (as in, not 100% shooting) on other strikes like his big boots, dropkicks and lariats (unless it's the finisher). Like, I don't see him being any more stiff than Finlay, yet he always feels like he's beating the shit out of his opponent way more.

His match against Gable last night was just wonderful AJPW/NOAH shit. Kobashi would've been proud of the ridiculous bumps they took.

[Robert S]

I remember listening to a WALTER interview maybe 5-6 years ago where he pointed out a key of his wrestling philosophy: if big guys do high flying stuff and small guys power spots, then in the end everybody is the same. It's obviously a big simplication (e.g. if hosses use high flying stuff very sparingly, they could mean a lot; but a good example of what I don't like at all: the Keith Lee vs. Dijakovic series), but WALTER is definitely fully embracing this way of working.

[Boss Rock]

Really haven't followed his WWE run super closely. But in the handful of ppv matches I've seen him in, I am genuinely impressed WWE has managed to get him right. He doesn't look as physically imposing as he used to, but largely the same wrestler.

[Kadaveri]

Some of his best WWE matches have been on TV. The series with Chad Gable has been fantastic.

[KawadaSmile]

Yeah, he also had a one-off against Bronson Reed recently which was amazing.

[EnviousStupid]

Even though I didn't love the title matches with Sheamus or Drew, the TV title matches and the tags with Imperium have really impressed me. So far, it's been a super strong run for someone I never would've thought could transition well into WWE.

[Embrodak]

I think Gunther gets points for me because he does so well working a style that would be fundamentally similar in any epoch he could have possibly worked in.

[HowtobeaMark]

Ricochet, Ciampa, Gable, Nakamura, Mysterio, Reed, Sheamus, Riddle, Woods, Strowman... is Gunther building a case for best WWE TV worker ever? He has only been on the main roster 20 months, 

[KawadaSmile]

I feel that GUNTHER doesn't have the same volume of TV matches as other contenders such as Rey and Sheamus and will take a while to get there, as his booking kinda protects him from overexposure. He is a big match wrestler but isn't restricted to PLEs. Still, one of the most constant wrestlers in the company for quite a while.