Serena Deeb

[Grimmas]

Cap said: "I've come around a bit late on Deeb, honestly since she has come to AEW. I was familiar with her as a strong wrestler before that, but she has blown me away in the past year or so. In turn, my nomination is based on a small sample size, but my gut tells me the past year is not some anomaly. Skimming her cagematch page, I am guessing there are some other strong stretches and maybe even some sort of hidden gems in there and I am hoping others can point out if and when/where else she excels. Deeb is well rounded. Her offense has teeth and is tight. Her selling is top notch, both in the moment and consistently through the match.  Her physical storytelling is great and  has a knack for making you buy into near falls and sucking you into the home stretch. Additionally, in the past year she has working a lot with women who have a lot less experience and are very much in the early stages of their growth.  She is really walking them through good to great TV matches and making them look real real good."

Match Recs

v Thunder Rosa (11/18/2020)
v Tay Conti (1/13/2021)
v Riho (2/18/2021)

[The Man in Blak]

Her return match with Riho on the Buy In pre-show for Double or Nothing (5/30/2021) was arguably better than any of the matches on the actual PPV:

The "mean streak" that she adopts in this match to break up the face-vs-face dynamic is nice, especially with all the legwork serving as a sort of retribution for her knee injury from their previous match.

[MoS]

Serena Deeb just gets wrestling. I was there in that pre-show crowd and the match was going fine and would have been fine, but not particularly great, had they stuck to doing what they were doing in the beginning of the match, with both wrestlers being faces. But Deeb gets wrestling, gets psychology, and made it a more traditional dynamic when she slapped Riho instead of shaking her hand. As soon as she did that, she immediately got the crowd ten times more invested in the match. It was a genuine "oh shit" moment. She then flipped another switch near the end when she went crazy on working Riho's legs right before the finish. Tremendous stuff, tremendous worker, she is the closest thing to an old-school world champion that North American wrestling has in 2021. 

[Cap]

I was going to mention that Riho match. Deeb continues to impress. I actually nominated her after her proper return match against Red Velvet. I think RV has lots of promise, but Deeb pulled the best out of her. Love the mean streak/heelishness she has shown since returning.  I think that was especially true in the Riho match as others have pointed out. Right now she is just doing everything well. She is hyper focussed on holding the match together logically. Her offense is great. She sells wonderfully. 

If I had to list people who are actively most aggressively making their cases right now on current form (say... the past 6-8 months) I honestly think Deeb would be top 5-10 on that list at worst..... but.....

She is really a looking back AND looking forward wrestler to me.  As I said in my nomination, I need to see what else is out there from her career so far. However, it will also be very interesting to see what she does over the next 5 years.  I don't think it is reasonable to expect this form for 5 years, but even something close to it could produce a pretty interesting case. If she remains a prominent part of the AEW roster and with a foot in other promotions such as NWA there is a lot of potential there. 

[Grimmas]

Just watched that Riho match, probably the best Riho singles match I have ever seen! Deeb was a master in that just controlling everything. It actually goes well with watching her in early Shimmer, she has always been so technically sound and wise on what to do in the ring. She's a mechanic or whatever that term Steve Austin always used to use.

I'll need to go in fill in some gaps, look for some more high end stuff for her to make my list, but you won't find a bad Deeb match I am sure.

[El Dragon]

She's quite good, but I think there are just too many gaps in work in combination with too much time merely just being good instead of great to consider her unless she has an absolutely massive 5 years. 

[Jetlag]

Todays post was dedicated to Serena:

https://reverseviperhold.blogspot.com/2021/06/gwe-watching-7-serena-deeb.html

 

She looked quite great in the Riho match, although it still seems ridiculous to nominate her based on a handful of fun TV matches. Her style gives me Eddie Guerrero vibes. Surely, she's gotta have some pre-2020 matches worth checking out? She's been around almost 20 years.

[Reel]

i think were riding the aew wave a little too high if having 3 good matches there is enough for someone to say this person might be one of the 100 greatest wrestlers ever

[Cap]

Perhaps I am missing the point of a nomination here. Is a nomination saying that - five years out - I am genuinely considering them to for my list? Or is a nomination saying that the wrestler might be interesting to talk about and could potentially build a case? If it is the former, sure... I wouldn't have nominated her.  If it is the latter or something adjacent to the latter, I stand by the nomination.

[Grimmas]

5 hours ago, Cap said:

Perhaps I am missing the point of a nomination here. Is a nomination saying that - five years out - I am genuinely considering them to for my list? Or is a nomination saying that the wrestler might be interesting to talk about and could potentially build a case? If it is the former, sure... I wouldn't have nominated her.  If it is the latter or something adjacent to the latter, I stand by the nomination.

It should be they are a nominee now. You can't discount the last 15 years of Deeb, she's been good since the first Shimmer show.

[Cap]

I appreciate it, but it doesn't quite get to my question, which is genuine, but I didn't word it well. If we are to nominate someone in "good faith" does that imply that they are serious contenders for our list at this moment?  Or, might a nomination come for any number of other reasons? For example, "there is potentially a case to be made for this person, even if I am not the one's to make it in full" (the case here).  The criteria outlined in the nomination thread is "you want to consider voting for them", which is pretty broad.

I know this isn't the place, but given two comments dismissing the nomination itself, I thought I would seek clarity. As i understand it, I stand by the fact that Deeb should be nominated, even if my nomination matches are admittedly from a very small and narrow sampling of her career. This is because, as stated, I'd like to learn more about her as a candidate if anyone has recs since she has something like a 15 year resume that is generally spoken of fondly and I would like to consider her over the next five years. However, if i am misunderstanding it I'll adjust my nomination standards in the future.

 

It is probably a non-issue to be honest. If folks are just being flippant that is whatever. However, if she shouldn't be nominated or nominated in the way I did that is something I'd like to understand.

[Grimmas]

38 minutes ago, Cap said:

I appreciate it, but it doesn't quite get to my question, which is genuine, but I didn't word it well. If we are to nominate someone in "good faith" does that imply that they are serious contenders for our list at this moment?  Or, might a nomination come for any number of other reasons? For example, "there is potentially a case to be made for this person, even if I am not the one's to make it in full" (the case here).  The criteria outlined in the nomination thread is "you want to consider voting for them", which is pretty broad.

I know this isn't the place, but given two comments dismissing the nomination itself, I thought I would seek clarity. As i understand it, I stand by the fact that Deeb should be nominated, even if my nomination matches are admittedly from a very small and narrow sampling of her career. This is because, as stated, I'd like to learn more about her as a candidate if anyone has recs since she has something like a 15 year resume that is generally spoken of fondly and I would like to consider her over the next five years. However, if i am misunderstanding it I'll adjust my nomination standards in the future.

 

It is probably a non-issue to be honest. If folks are just being flippant that is whatever. However, if she shouldn't be nominated or nominated in the way I did that is something I'd like to understand.

I only nominate people I might consider or I think others should consider, however if you can make a case and follow the rules there is really nothing you from nominating anyone if you want to waste the time.

[Cap]

Well, I have certainly wasted time on dumber shit than nominating Serena Deeb for this project, so that is fine.

[DylanZero]

If Alexa Bliss and Charlotte Flair, two actively horrible workers and joke candidates are nominated and talked about then Deeb surely can be. Cap didn't do anything wrong. Hell, Ken the Box is nominated so it's clear if there are any "serious" standards to nominees that flew out the window.

 

Personally I think as many wrestlers as possible should be nominated just to be as thorough as possible and see no issue with that, even if it's just to reject them and counter why they AREN'T. Although that would lead to a lot of people like this where it's like "Good, yes. But top 100 literally of all time..?"

 

Actually putting people in the top 100 should be under a much greater microscope and for that Deeb should be one of the ones rejected, not necessarily due to lack of skill but due to lack of time and not really standing out on a major level until a handful of matches 15 years into her career. But she is having a career renaissance and that's admirable.

[Reel]

I didn't really mean to shit on Deeb or Cap for nominating her. 

I am totally fine with nominating people you don't even plan to vote for, because in the process of how these discussions play out, they could gain steam and end up on ballots. I also think that nominating somebody because they've impressed you recently and want to check out more of their back catalog. I'm less fine with nominating people because it seems like they might deserve a vote in 5 years, but that's a personal thing more than a way I think this should go, so I'm still fine with that.

This one, maybe because it was the most recent thread that fit this description, just seemed very emblematic of what I perceived as a trend of nominating people based on what is a small sample of recent matches in currently hyped promotions. So my comment is more of a comment on that trend. Here's a bit of an over simple hypothetical. If there was 1996 GWE, I'm sure Public Enemy would get votes, and for my small part in however this process plays out, I would like to argue against that kind of vote. 

I'm a big supporter of this process, so I don't want to dissuade anyone from nominating anyone, and I don't want anyone to think I'm coming after them for their picks.

[Cap]

I think that is fair to be honest.

I have personally found talking points about what they COULD be in 5 years interesting from a conversation stand point, but I wouldn't nominate someone based on that or overthink a candidacy based on it. I mean, we are 5 years away. Kids starting high school NEXT YEAR will graduate around when we submit.  The idea of potential is intriguing, but for sure... it isn't grounds - on its own - for a nomination for myself either. It just becomes a flashy talking point.

I have laid out Deeb's preliminary candidacy otherwise earlier, so I wont rehash it. 

I suppose I could see this as a matter of the new hotness promotion bumping someone's rep. I am admittedly a bit of an AEW mark so maybe that is coloring my opinion. Even still, she is a super long shot for even real crunch time consideration, but I have a lot of exploring to do.

[MoS]

Personally, anyone who has a good chance of being in serious consideration for a vote in 2026 can and should be nominated. In Deeb's case, as someone praising her on a limited sampling, the thought process is simple. Serena has a 15-year career and looks set to have another great 5 years. The recent matches provide an excellent glimpse at her strengths, which are good enough to make her eligible for a vote. So these matches, and the strengths she displays, becomes a gateway, or a prism of sorts, to check out her long career, and decide her merits and demerits on the basis of available footage. If it turns out that she was merely good for 15 years and only flashes of greatness, then she doesn't make the list. But the discussion to reach that conclusion would be worthwhile. And as we keep saying in GWE's context, the process, the journey is more valuable than the destination.

[Rah]

There are definitely cases of guys being nommed who have no case now but might by voting time (Garrini). If it can get more exposure on them, then I'm all for it. Equally, if people come away from a good run of matches (or match!) and want to see more, then nominate! Maybe we're overlooking the nominee (though this might need a more in-depth primer to spark discussion if not choice words from a more "respected" poster). Maybe we can show the nominator why we're not fond of the nominee. Either way, let's discuss. I'm sure none of us expect a (beautifully detailed!) Elliot styled post, but we can, at the least, explain our opinions to some degree (El Dragon hit that nail on the head). There are so many nominees that I just don't know about or have no sampling of so I frequently check these threads to keep up with things and make sure I'm not missing anything.

That said, I think the difference with Deeb, and others in her boat, is that she's already had a decade+ of wrestling, so the next few years are most likely not going to sway opinions much unless it's otherworldly. The AEW match definitely made people sit up and take note, and that's great, but where do I (we?) go from here? 

[NotJayTabb]

Another value of nominating someone like Serena Deeb, who might not look like an outright contender, is that there might be someone out there who'd not even thought about her, sees her thread, and goes "Oh yeah, Serena Deeb, she's great. She's got a shot for my list". Anything that drives discussion is a good thing in my eyes. Personally, I think she's got no chance of making my list, but she's worthy of discussion.

[rovert]

Deeb is a really talented wrestler rather obviously. But was plagued with sobriety and concussion issues sadly.

As a pure fan, her 2010-2011 run in SHIMMER is up there with James Gibson's ROH as majestic but all too brief run.

I'd save my energy/candidacy for Madison Eagles personally. Serena would probably tell you the same thing. As most women who have wrestled her. 

[Grimmas]

4 hours ago, rovert said:

Deeb is a really talented wrestler rather obviously. But was plagued with sobriety and concussion issues sadly.

As a pure fan, her 2010-2011 run in SHIMMER is up there with James Gibson's ROH as majestic but all too brief run.

I'd save my energy/candidacy for Madison Eagles personally. Serena would probably tell you the same thing. As most women who have wrestled her. 

or you can vote for both.

[El McKell]

95% chance Serena Deeb will not make my list but I wanna post this match that I really like, where Deeb carries a kid who'd been wrestling for less than 2 years and makes her look like she's great
 

 

[funkdoc]

She's making more of a case over time.  Hands down one of the best workers in AEW's women's division, i'd even put her above Rosa since she's more consistent and better at leading greener talent (very important in that promotion lol)

[KB8]

Deeb is the business. I've been diving deep into AEW the last month or so, specifically from the September PPV last year up until the current day, and she's been a total superstar in everything. That's only a small handful of matches, granted, but still, she looks far and away the best woman on the roster and I hope she wins the belt at the PPV. Works a body part like a mean bastard, has lots of nifty holds, routinely works the ring post figure-four into her matches and that alone should make her a top 10 candidate, just a really fun wrestler that I couldn't even have told you was still wrestling a month ago.