Steenalized Posted October 16, 2021 Report Share Posted October 16, 2021 Really good explanation, funk. I'd be willing to hear a good counterargument about why that's not the explanation but it makes sense to me. I think MoS is right about the matwork being better than the strike exchanges too and that hurt the match to me since I got the vibe early on that everyone in the crowd and them in the ring are just biding time til they can trade strikes. Probably would have liked it more if they started with the hard strike exchanges, then one of them (probably Danielson) realizes they're getting the worst of it and takes it the mat out of desperation or self preservation. Good match but I'm not in love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 16, 2021 Report Share Posted October 16, 2021 Interesting to see people not liking happy Punk. I get how it's a difference in how we're used to seeing him, but knowing how much of his crabby demeanor previously was based on his real life dissatisfaction with his life at that point makes me happy to see him so jovial on TV now. Fun Uncle Punk may not be the best gimmick for him but it's undeniably better for him as a person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted October 16, 2021 Report Share Posted October 16, 2021 Danielson vs MiSu was even better on a rewatch. I was able to appreciate all the nuances they did to basically everything they attempted much more the second time around. The strike exchanges are obviously the make or break part of the match but man, there was a lot more going on than just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted October 16, 2021 Report Share Posted October 16, 2021 The strike exchanges have been Suzuki's bread and butter for years now. I rarely get the sense he wants to push for something more interesting, and I don't blame him at his age. They did a really good version of that match, with some quality mat stuff mixed in, and that's about all I was looking for. It didn't hit me as a classic, but it was pretty remarkable to have that sucker dropped in our laps on YouTube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southofheavy Posted October 16, 2021 Report Share Posted October 16, 2021 1 hour ago, sek69 said: Interesting to see people not liking happy Punk. I get how it's a difference in how we're used to seeing him, but knowing how much of his crabby demeanor previously was based on his real life dissatisfaction with his life at that point makes me happy to see him so jovial on TV now. Fun Uncle Punk may not be the best gimmick for him but it's undeniably better for him as a person. This. It seems he's done a lot of healing and he's at peace. I think it's really awesome to see. I'm really diggin' what he's doing in the ring, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 16, 2021 Report Share Posted October 16, 2021 I like Fun Punk. I just want to see someone bloody him up a bit. If you really look in your heart, you’ll realize you do too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southofheavy Posted October 16, 2021 Report Share Posted October 16, 2021 Ohhhhh, I hope we get a cage match or a dog collar match during this run, for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted October 16, 2021 Report Share Posted October 16, 2021 Also it will make the inevitable heel turn all the more jarring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobogo Posted October 16, 2021 Report Share Posted October 16, 2021 The back and forth strike battles suck when it's a whole show of them, which is why that era of NJPW is such a chore, but Suzuki and Ishii being the only ones doing those matches now in NJ stand out and are awesome. I do kind of lol when you see it in American wrestling with shitty wrasslin punches and the BOOO/YAAAY reactions though. If you're gonna do that spot, lay that shit in as much as you can while still being safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted October 19, 2021 Report Share Posted October 19, 2021 So get this guys, I actually fucking LOVED Bryan/Suzuki. I was full on captivated. Starting to think it's a case of, it's not what, but who, and why. I don't want a card or a promotion full of constant strike exchanges, and I don't want anyone and everyone doing them. But I DO want Minoru f'n Suzuki doing them with unleashed Bryan Danielson in a one-off dream match we almost never got. The way in which they were doing the exchanges was so far above the level of what I usually see it's laughable. The way they began and how the tone and seriousness kept changing and escalating through the match. Early on it was, "Okay, knock yourself out, let's have some fun" and by the end it was, "There is NOTHING you can hit me with on God's green earth motherfucker." Out of sheer hubris and force of will. But the way they fucking SOLD that shit too. Bryan being the dumb fuck for getting into the battle in the first place and then getting fucking LEVELLED TO DEATH with the first forearm was incredible. Bryan is tough, but he's no match. There's an actual moment after that where you can see Bryan realising he's never going to win this your turn-my turn battle, so he abandons it and just starts a flurry of kicks to get back on top. Even later with the "kick me and I crunch up and no sell" thing. Minoru does it, again, again, but it's getting harder and harder each time. This is his thing. Then he gets a chance to kick Bryan and Bryan HAS TO DO IT BACK for a huge pop, but then Minoru keeps kicking him, and Bryan tries to keep doing it back but HE CAN'T. He couldn't bridge up the third time and just collapses and gets covered. This is Minoru's thing. Bryan is trying to hang and match him as best he can, but he can't. He's smaller and he's not a murderous grandfather. He needs to do something else. Little shit like that was just genius. It wasn't just taking turns, it was taking turns and finding out who hit harder, and then reacting to that information, and then trying something else, but always going back to the battle because, well, men are dumb I guess, and taking turns to find out who's still hitting harder or who's more hurt, and reacting again. It had meaning to it. At no point did I feel like they were just trading for the sake of it, which is a feeling I get from those spots 90% of the time. Also, the matwork was killer shit. That moment where Bryan turned Cattle Mutilation into a pin, *mwah* I could watch that match a hundred times. In fact I probably should since I was distracted during the finish and kind of missed what happened before The Knee That Beat John Cena. So I guess in conclusion my problem isn't necessarily with strong style, maybe it's just with people who aren't Suzuki doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 19, 2021 Report Share Posted October 19, 2021 Yeah it was like watching two rams colliding with each other to establish dominance. People dismissing it as "trading strikes" kinda miss the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 On 10/16/2021 at 5:37 PM, Matt D said: I like Fun Punk. I just want to see someone bloody him up a bit. If you really look in your heart, you’ll realize you do too. I'd like Phil Brooks to be happy, but I'd prefer CM Punk to be angry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 Danielson/Suzuki losing out to a Seth Rollins match for match of the week honors in the Observer is almost as big an L as Roman losing in the demo to the Bunny. It feels to me like the folks trying to argue that the strike exchanges were appreciably different from the norm are bending over backwards to give Danielson the benefit of the doubt. There are ways to do strike exchanges intelligently, but "two rams colliding with each other to establish dominance" is the exact opposite of that. It's just as dumb as SANADA releasing skull end on an unconscious opponent so he can miss a moonsault. I think brother funkdoc hit the nail on the head when he said that fans as a whole are into strike exchanges because they're stupid and they want wrestlers to be big dumb anime heroes. I'm afraid that's something I'll never accept in pro wrestling or any other medium. Suffice it to say that the valorization of stupidity is one of the main reasons the country (and the world as a whole) is in the shape it's in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 20 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said: It's just as dumb as SANADA releasing skull end on an unconscious opponent so he can miss a moonsault. Actually, I love that spot because the Skull End is probably the worst looking Dragon Sleeper variation ever, so winning with it is kinda flat to me, plus SANADA is always gonna honor his mentor and finishing with the moonsault is very sumoesque mentality of "I have to win doing my mentor's style". 20 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said: I think brother funkdoc hit the nail on the head when he said that fans as a whole are into strike exchanges because they're stupid and they want wrestlers to be big dumb anime heroes. I had not seen that analogy but it's really a perfect one, and I totally subscribe to it. There is probably something to be said about some supposedly "smart" work which really isn't that smart and supposedly "dumb" work that really isn't that dumb, but that's for another time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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