Matt D Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 Only reason I’m upset about the tag result is that I wanted Orange Cassidy vs Jeff Jarrett at the PPV more than almost any other match they’ve been building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 I have some strong opinions about MJF but all I'm gonna say is that this title reign is making me like him. Not for the reasons one would think about, but still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 2 hours ago, KawadaSmile said: I have some strong opinions about MJF but all I'm gonna say is that this title reign is making me like him. Not for the reasons one would think about, but still. You can't just leave us hanging high and dry like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 Well, honestly I just think he has laid an egg with this title reign and his promos are downright embarrassing, and not in the way they'd like it to be. He was hyped up as this generational talker but he gets his material straight from incel/redpill subreddits, week in, week out. Punk, in his first promo in his great feud against Max, said he just goes for the lowest hanging fruit, every single time, and he still does that. I think the Miz comparison was spot-on then, I'm not so sure about it now - Miz is able to deliver better stuff when left to his own devices. Granted, I am super high on the Miz and never thought of it as a major diss, but the similarities, character wise, are there. The insecurity, the way they want to be hated but all they ever wanted was to be loved, the similar style etc. Now, if he has such a super schlocky title reign which pretty much shows that my previous assessment of him are correct, why do I like him more? Because seeing a wrestler come up with such honestly BAD material week in, week out, crosses the line twice and becomes endearing. It's like those super edgy emo songs that when you listen to it once, you go "this is garbage", but then after a while, your stance shifts. "LOL, this is some garbage alright!". You get humor out of it. He is young and has room to improve (or so I hope), but Theory is even younger, and we all like to take a massive dump on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted February 23, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 MJF is about a million times the worker Miz is. I think that's a big part of why he makes a point of never wrestling. If he were in the ring more often, he'd start to pick up crowd support because it'd be obvious how good he really is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 37 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said: I think the Miz comparison was spot-on then, I'm not so sure about it now - Miz is able to deliver better stuff when left to his own devices. Granted, I am super high on the Miz and never thought of it as a major diss, but the similarities, character wise, are there. The insecurity, the way they want to be hated but all they ever wanted was to be loved, the similar style etc. Miz sucks as a wrestler and his facial expressions are some of the worst in wrestling history. I am not going to grade him on a curve just because he doesn't injure himself every time he wrestles on account of being the worst athlete in WWE today, and probably in its history. His smug face alone is shittier than anything MJF has ever done - he looks like he is taking a shit and likes its smell. Not to mention a propensity to not be in position to catch wrestlers doing topes. He has been wrestling since 2006 and is still shit. EDIT - sorry for the harsh tone. I am in a horrible mood. Our women are absolutely shitting the bed against Australia in the cricket women's world cup semi-final and it is physically painful to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 Having said that, MJF is definitely not "Piper in Portland". Dragon should beat him for the title, but he won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Wolfe Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 I really like MJF but everything he has done from the moment Regal turned to give him the belt has stunk His character was far better as the mouthy challenger, not sure they really know how to treat him as champ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 7 minutes ago, Dale Wolfe said: I really like MJF but everything he has done from the moment Regal turned to give him the belt has stunk His character was far better as the mouthy challenger, not sure they really know how to treat him as champ I would say they fumbled his return. He went from cutting an engaging promo calling TK a mark to being the exact same thing once he came back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embrodak Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 I really think the extent of the “badness” or “cringe” or whatever is greatly exaggerated in these parts, in fact I think most of it is at least fine taken in isolation, but it seems fair to say that “Ace of the company *and* sustaining a middlingly booked feud that’s a half assed repeat of what he’s done in the past on personality alone” is a little above his skill level at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 First, The Miz comparisons are totally out to lunch. The Miz is a fucking joke, has been for 15 years. He had about a handfull of semi-enjoyable matches in his entire career, most of them being only smoke & mirrors dog & pony shows, straight comedy, carry jobs by all-time greats and the sheer presence of Maryse. If I had to say "What's wrong about post 2001 WWE style in one word", I'd say : Miz. About MJF's stint thus far, I think people are ignoring the two elephants in the room : no one wanted MJF to turn heel when he did, he was over as fuck all as a babyface. The other, is that the entire feud designed for him and Danielson was built around Steven Regal. Two lessons : don't go against what your audience wants when they deliver a hot babyface on a plate (sounds familiar); don't let a guy out of his contract to go to the opposition when you build your main event angle around him to begin with. Without having watched the show (as I won't for a while), I must say the PPV to me doesn't look super interesting on paper, with the only match I'm really excited about for now being The Elite vs House of Black, because it's a brand new potentially awesome match, exactly what the trios title were designed for. Mox vs Hangman (I read he has a new music ? NOOOOO!!!! WHY????) I've seen already. Each time was terrific and I have no doubt this will be too (although I'm not a fan of Texas Death matches), but it's gonna be the fourth match in a short while. AEW went from having no rematch to having a bunch. Hopefully we have Danielson vs Omega too then, soon. And speaking of rematches, I don't get Jericho vs Starks. I don't hate it, but I don't get it and I'm not into it at all (and I say that as not a part of the Jericho Hate Club at all). Hopefully Starks wins clean. But, just move on now, and hopefully we get some movement with the JAS too, I want Sammy & Tay doing cool heel shit, I want Daniel Garcia going forward. Where is Anna Jay ? She ok after that awful bump ? Then we have the stuff I absolutely don't care about aka Samoe Joe vs Wardlow. Joe was doing so great, and we're going back to Powerbomb Dude ? Fuck me. I'm so tired of hearing about Wardlow as he's some big potential star. IT WON'T WORK, NOT IN AEW. He was over like Virgil was over, ok ? And where the fuck is Will Hobbs anyway, he got all those vignettes about the Book of Hobbs, and then never showed up on TV. Don't be WWE, please ! And speaking of which, the fucking women three-way. Poor Hayter, that's all I'll say. That should have been a hot Hayter vs Baker match, or another stiff Hayter vs Storm match at the very least. I've defended the dubious effort of the women division enough to say that this booking is complete bullshit. Ruby is just not very good (sorry), Saraya has been a complete mess thus far. Why can't we have Hayter against ANYONE ELSE ? The Bunny, Tay, Penelope, Athena (that ROH title made her vanish into thin air, just wonderful), Marina fucking Shafir ? I don't care. I actually dread Saraya winning "for heat". And speaking of winning for heat, the four-way tags led by the Ass Boys, and I dunno who's gonna be the fourth team, is probably gonna be a fun clusterfuck (count me as a fan of the Jarrett & Lethal team), but really now, we went from Omega & Hangman vs Young Bucks, one of the greatest tag match ever anywhere, to this. And then of course that main event, which is gonna be "interesting", and maybe it's gonna be a make-it or break-it moment for MJF as a worker, as you can't ask for a better dance partner than Danielson, but I dread gimmicky shit as they often do in Iron Man Matches, which is also one reason I'm not a fan of this stip at all. If they make it a compelling pro-wrestling match, great. If they make it WWE-like, then, well, don't complain about poor ratings trends and such. But I guess I'll only know in a while (unless I just purposefully spoil myself by checking results and reactions). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 1,028,000 viewers last night and .35 in the demo. Who the hell saw that coming after last week's poor number? Meltz theorized no NBA and general lack of competition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 53 minutes ago, Strummer said: 1,028,000 viewers last night and .35 in the demo. Who the hell saw that coming after last week's poor number? Meltz theorized no NBA and general lack of competition Yeah, no NBA at all last night. Plus the latest season of The Challenge is over, last night’s episode was just the wrap up/after show. Plus, even though last night’s episode wasn’t anything to write home about, it was miles ahead of last week. No wonder more people watched. I am still shaking my head at Evil Fucking Uno being in the Main Event but…that’s Tony Khan for you, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 Evil Uno pulled the +2(00k viewers) card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 13 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said: Evil Uno pulled the +2(00k viewers) card. OC and Evil Uno weekly open contracts challenges on every Dynamite going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 IIRC OC is a guy who pulls good numbers more often than not, isn't he? Some people say his gimmick is stupid but I have seen clips of his popping up outside of the wrestling twitter bubble, and with mostly positive remarks. Dude running around hitting dropkicks and ranas with his hands in his pocket and without dropping his shades? Cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted February 24, 2023 Report Share Posted February 24, 2023 1 hour ago, KawadaSmile said: IIRC OC is a guy who pulls good numbers more often than not, isn't he? Some people say his gimmick is stupid but I have seen clips of his popping up outside of the wrestling twitter bubble, and with mostly positive remarks. Dude running around hitting dropkicks and ranas with his hands in his pocket and without dropping his shades? Cool. When AEW first launched Orange Cassidy used to annoy me a bit, and at first I thought it was a stupid pointless gimmick, but that match he had with Omega and PAC and his subsequent angle with PAC kind of turned me around on him a bit. I have warmed to him. He’s clearly got a ton of talent. I’m not convinced there isn’t a ceiling for how much he can do with that gimmick but to quote him…whatever. If anything I think AEW has massively missed the boat on marketing him. He seems to be extremely popular with kids and I don’t know they’re doing everything they can with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted February 24, 2023 Report Share Posted February 24, 2023 10 hours ago, KawadaSmile said: Evil Uno pulled the +2(00k viewers) card. I would say that's more due to Mox (and Hangman) than Uno. Rampage's ratings also rebounded once they started building it around Mox. Given how many times he has saved AEW and TK's ass, TK should def give him some equity in the promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dav'oh Posted February 24, 2023 Report Share Posted February 24, 2023 Kicking a basketball away from a kid? Cheap heel heat. Spray-painting people's backs? Cheap heel heat. Foreign object? Manager interference? Cheap heel heat. Snobbery? Aloofness? Superiority? Cowardice? Cheap heel heat. Turning on your babyface partner by throwing yourself through a window? Cheap heel heat. Insert town/person/sports team sucks? Cheap heel heat. Bullying? Gaslighting? Flexing your pecs? Cheap heel heat. 4-on-1 beatdown? Feet on the ropes? Hair-pulling, real or feigned? Taking away a kid's sign? Backstage sneak-attack? Wardrobe (hey, Seth!)? Cheap heel heat. I for one do not expect sophisticated, highbrow heel heat from any pro-wrestler, let alone MJF. Examples welcomed, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted February 24, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2023 Heat is a means to an end, not an end in itself. The goal is to draw money. If heat leads to business, it's good heat. If it doesn't, it's cheap heat. It has nothing to do with highbrow vs. lowbrow. Insulting the local sports team is a foolproof method to draw boos from a crowd, but no one's going to buy a ticket to see a babyface defend the honor of the Red Sox. By the way, Orange Cassidy rules and only a joyless stick in the mud would disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted February 24, 2023 Report Share Posted February 24, 2023 Orange Cassidy outworked WIll Ospereay in their match. He rules hard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDuke Posted February 24, 2023 Report Share Posted February 24, 2023 I like Evil Uno as a wrestler better that as the mouthpiece for an evil cult or as the leader of a comedy stable that does backstage comedy skits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embrodak Posted February 24, 2023 Report Share Posted February 24, 2023 3 hours ago, NintendoLogic said: Heat is a means to an end, not an end in itself. The goal is to draw money. If heat leads to business, it's good heat. If it doesn't, it's cheap heat. It has nothing to do with highbrow vs. lowbrow. Insulting the local sports team is a foolproof method to draw boos from a crowd, but no one's going to buy a ticket to see a babyface defend the honor of the Red Sox. By the way, Orange Cassidy rules and only a joyless stick in the mud would disagree. Fuck Orange Cassidy, and I have plenty of joy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pete Posted February 24, 2023 Report Share Posted February 24, 2023 It's funny how a show that doesn't appear all that great on paper can just hit the spot. Once again, we're seeing the positive impact touring is having on the product. The crowd was into everything which in turn gave the wrestlers some confidence and every match delivered. I'm not typically a huge fan of battle royals but every now and then it just breaks up the monotiny. One thing AEW did well here is that they got the balance right and had enough stars in the battle royal plus a few acts that haven't been featured in awhile making an appearance. With a big roster, I always think it's an important to rotate people around and make it seem fresh. For instance it's been over six months since we've seen The Butcher and The Blade team up on Dynamite let's test them out. I think OC is great at working his shtick. His cat & mouse sequences this Wednesday were really smooth and I thought his selling really added to the drama of the match. The fans all clearly loved it too so the OC-Wheeler match was about as good a match you're going to see from Yuta. I just wonder if you put the World Belt on him could you expect him to carry it for a year and for fans to be emotionally invested? Does he have that type of charisma or is he just too polarising for wrestling audiences? Selfishly, I'd also like to see an international wrestler with the All-Atlantic Championship. Whether it's Konosuke Takeshita or RUSH, just somebody who could use the spotlight and bring a different flavour to the company. OC is doing a fair job working against all these different styles, but ultimately it's always going to be an OC match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dav'oh Posted February 25, 2023 Report Share Posted February 25, 2023 10 hours ago, NintendoLogic said: The goal is to draw money. If heat leads to business, it's good heat. If it doesn't, it's cheap heat. That's not the context in which people are calling MJF's promos "cheap heat". They're not waiting three months to see ratings and ticket sales trends, they're calling it "cheap" in the moment. "Cheap heat" is so cheap, it's free. It's easy. Often conflated with "lazy". But my point is, pro-wrestling's "rile the rubes" tactics have always been cheap and easy. It's always been, "Your mother wears army boots", not "Your interpretation of Wittgenstein's Sprachspiel saddens me". And yes, Orange Cassidy is the duck's guts (dog's bollocks in the UK, bee's knees in the US). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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