AEW TV - 11/1 - 11/4 - Remember, Remember

[Timbo Slice]

Pepperidge Farms remembers. 

[WingedEagle]

This feels like the worst episode of Dynamite in ages and its not even close.  OC/Claudio underdelivered and given the length I'm not sure I'd even call it average.  Every promo and angle this show has been a miss.  Sting has nostalgia, wasn't overexposed for the last 2 decades, actually works to elevate Allin and has been used as a special attraction here.  But now we're getting regular and prominent Copeland and Jericho every week along with Wight in the mix and more awful backstage comedy elsewhere.

I've been defending the hell out of the show all year but its hard with Danielson out and the in ring falling to the levels of the out of ring creative.

[Timbo Slice]

Everything on the show just feels lifeless, to be honest. And great matches aren’t the antidote. There’s just nothing really appealing about so many folks on the roster right now. The folks who are over stand out way more than the others, and the fatigue on a lot of folks is starting to show. When you have to get Paul Wight involved, who is sadly obviously hobbled, that’s a bit too much.
 

Next week? They’re running the Oakland Arena for Rampage/Collision and they only are selling tickets camera side lower bowl. I’m considering going knowing I can get walk up tickets no problem, but have no idea what the show quality is going to be like. There’s just no juice there.
 

The creative is bad, they’re not doing a good job elevating talent, it seems like even the basic things are falling well short. A lot of odd transitions in matches and between segments. The prevailing idea is they’re spinning their wheels waiting on folks to get healthy and TV money, but considering the resources and the talent, it really feels like they’re fumbling the ball. 

[Flyin' Brian]

So Edge is going to turn on Sting and Darby and setup Edge and Christian vs Sting and Darby as Sting’s retirement match, aren’t they? 

[Big Pete]

Somebody has to stage an intervention for Tony when it comes to promoting big announcements and dream matches. The key is to under-sell and over-deliver, otherwise you're just trolling your audience.

This show is the by-product of rushing Omega/MJF. Which isn't to say it was horrible or an insult, but because they didn't have time to set up plot beats or pace things out naturally you end up with lame duck shows like this that feel half-baked.

I'm sure Full Gear will be fine and when you have 52 shows a year, not all of them are going to be winners. However they just need to think carefully about playing to their strengths and generating interest around those personalities, while letting the next batch of contenders simmer underneath. I certainly don't think it's just a lack of effort, they just need to step back and consider what are the biggest matches they can put together in the next couple of years and work towards them.

[sek69]

I suppose AEW may be a victim of its own high expectations, but I didn't think the show was as dire as everyone else seems to think it was. No it wasn't setting the world on fire, but I don't think anything was *bad*, just not at the level other shows they've done.  It's not that they didn't try to advance any angles, you had Matt flipping out over Hangman bailing on them, you had the next beat in the Skye Blue/Julia Hart story, and you had the payoff of MJF finally agreeing to team with The Acclaimed. Was it Okada/Danielson? No, but it was Perfectly Acceptable TV Wrestling which may not be enough for AEW after the bar they set. 

[Big Pete]

I'd rather watch just about any other Danielson match than Okada just quietly - even Tony Nese. Hopefully Dav'oh doesn't see this post!

I'd argue it's not so much the bar they set, but just the downward trend the show has been on for well over a year at this point. There's a real apathy with AEW and it seems like they're really struggling to position their roster.

It doesn't help that they're consistently pushing WWE-lifers.

 

[sek69]

27 minutes ago, Big Pete said:

It doesn't help that they're consistently pushing WWE-lifers.

This is a bit unfair for a couple reasons: after 20+ years of a monopoly there's TONS of "WWE lifers" because there was nowhere else for them to go, and also I don't see how they are constantly pushing WWE lifers other than Edge (who I assume probably signed a big money deal). Billy Gunn was used perfectly  to help get the Acclaimed over, and the only one who would fit the bill is Chris Jericho which you can make the case is finally running out of gas after being one of the top ratings draws for the first 2-3 years of the company, and even he was putting over the young guys. 

This isn't like TNA where all the ex WCW guys squashed the homegrown guys to the point where it became a meme. 

[Big Pete]

59 minutes ago, sek69 said:

This is a bit unfair for a couple reasons: after 20+ years of a monopoly there's TONS of "WWE lifers" because there was nowhere else for them to go, and also I don't see how they are constantly pushing WWE lifers other than Edge (who I assume probably signed a big money deal). Billy Gunn was used perfectly  to help get the Acclaimed over, and the only one who would fit the bill is Chris Jericho which you can make the case is finally running out of gas after being one of the top ratings draws for the first 2-3 years of the company, and even he was putting over the young guys. 

This isn't like TNA where all the ex WCW guys squashed the homegrown guys to the point where it became a meme. 

It's moreso in recent weeks where the show has been built around guys like Adam Copeland, Christian, Ric Flair, Paul White, The Hardy Boyz, Rob Van Dam, Saraya etc. Now you could argue that they don't fall under the umbrella of a 'WWE-lifer' and I'd take your point but a lot of these talents were major players in that company and I'd argue that's where most fans would have seen them.

There should be a balance, especially when they're the alternative brand. When you're constantly featuring these acts, it doesn't create a positive perception, especially from lapsed WWE fans.

[Dav'oh]

Funnily enough, I was having lunch with TONY NESE the other day, and he's not real enamoured with PWO either so there.

AEW need star-power. They might still not be "booking for the casuals" but if they can get the casuals' eyeballs on the product then of course they'll hire people that stir up even minimal spikes in interest. Are their champs all "home-grown"? If not all, then most? (Not been watching much these last couple of months, cherry-picking the hyped matches). 

The show may be built around your Edge/Flair/Wight types, but it's clear they're auxillary players. Last I remember, it was the bro-rom-com Better Than You BayBay that was featured. Before that it was I dunno. Next it'll be someone else. I don't think the WWE lifers are taking over.

[El-P]

I was about to say I liked a lot of the show (I mean, Claudio vs Orange, Shida vs Willow, the Skye Blue & Julia Hart angle, the Young Bucks tease of more Elite drama, which is ALWAYS great, the main event, even the Copeland angle worked well I thought), despite stuff like Paul Wight (although Paul Wight teaming up with Kota Ibushi is random enough to make it kinda cool) and the huge announcement that was not a huge announcement at all (color me surprised. Not).

But then Ric Flair has signed a multi-year contract with AEW. So he's not just making two or three appearances. Fuck that. 

But hey, I liked most of the show. 

But Coach TK surely has tons of money to waste if he's signing Ric Flair and agrees to promote his energy drink in the process (yeah, make this guy more money, SURE, NOT GROSS AT ALL)... Maybe he should sign actual talent who can produce and who haven't been accused of sexual assault in a documentary. Maybe, like, great women wrestlers and such instead. Just a thought... Oh well... Pick your poison I guess. CM Punk was an exciting spicy drink that sadly turned sour. Flair is straight out emetic. I'll always cherish AEW 2019-2021 though in my pro-wrestling fandom chaotic road.

[strobogo]

Big Show looked borderline late stage Andre immobile. His hips and knees look completely fucked. I remember something about when he's done the pre-show things, he has to sit whenever not on camera because he can't stand for more than a few minutes without being in pain. I'm sure Ibushi will try a phoenix splash standing on his shoulders or something, though.

[NintendoLogic]

Holy cow, this man should not be anywhere near a wrestling ring.

[El-P]

"You've still got it ! Clap clap clap clap clap !" 

Or something.

He looked like a crippled, crooked old version of King Kong Bundy on TV. This picture makes it even more cursed.

[Jmare007]

I feel like Tony/AEW really had something with Cole and MJF. The All In happened and that angle stopped in it's tracks and transitioned to "they are BFFs, tune in what funny fuckery they'll be involved in every week with Roderick Strong and The Kingdom" and after that PPV everything has been dragging. Cole getting injured was the nail in the coffin but even by Grand Slam, that angle was no longer compelling or can't miss.

I actually like the idea of giving MJF a bunch of people gunning for the belt at the same time but it doesn't really feel like he's in any real danger. And the "Devil" mystery has been 4 weeks of literally nothing. It sounds like something that should work, but it really isn't clicking right now.

Callis and his family has also moved at a snail's pace and a guy like Takeshita was never really able to follow through his momentum from 3 months ago.

Everything else in AEW relies 90% on match making and match quality. And stuff like Miro and his wife, Skye Blue going to the ¿blue side? and Santana/Ortiz are not angles that can carry a TV show.

I'm ok with watching fun matches but considering Danielson is not gonna be on TV long -dude is made of crystal at this point, sadly- I don't foresee TK being able to keep me as a watcher and sometimes PPV buyer once Dragon finishes his contract in 2024. I'd love to be proven wrong. 

 

[SirEdger]

18 minutes ago, Jmare007 said:

 

Callis and his family has also moved at a snail's pace and a guy like Takeshita was never really able to follow through his momentum from 3 months ago.

 

Speaking of which...how did we get from Don Callis ranting about Kyle Fletcher letting him down 2 weeks in a row to Fletcher now being a full-fledged member of the Don Callis Family? Did I miss something?

[Alucard]

1 hour ago, SirEdger said:

Speaking of which...how did we get from Don Callis ranting about Kyle Fletcher letting him down 2 weeks in a row to Fletcher now being a full-fledged member of the Don Callis Family? Did I miss something?

Takeshita beat Fletcher on Rampage last week, then after Fletcher him with a chair. Callis then said now he was showing the mean streak he was looking for and invited him back to the Family.  Fletcher seemed uncertain then, so it was still a jump to being fully back in here. 

[sek69]

4 hours ago, Jmare007 said:

I feel like Tony/AEW really had something with Cole and MJF. The All In happened and that angle stopped in it's tracks and transitioned to "they are BFFs, tune in what funny fuckery they'll be involved in every week with Roderick Strong and The Kingdom" and after that PPV everything has been dragging. Cole getting injured was the nail in the coffin but even by Grand Slam, that angle was no longer compelling or can't miss.

Cole and MJF were hugely over when Cole's ankle exploded. Their chemistry had goofy shit like Kangaroo Kick and Double Clothesline getting mega pops from the crowd. The whole story of MJF finally feeling true friendship was silly but at the same time had heart behind it that made it easy to get behind. IMO all the stuff with Roddy and AAAAAAAAAAAADAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM is funny but that IMO started things down the path of no longer being compelling since it's a one note joke being stretched too far. The Kingdom guys are working their asses off to save it (the NeckStrong song was great) but its still going nowhere. 

[El-P]

7 hours ago, Jmare007 said:

I actually like the idea of giving MJF a bunch of people gunning for the belt at the same time but it doesn't really feel like he's in any real danger. And the "Devil" mystery has been 4 weeks of literally nothing. It sounds like something that should work, but it really isn't clicking right now.

I like the barrage of chalengers coming in from everywhere and overwhelming MJF. The one issue is that since they are building toward Jay White, who should be the biggest threat. By having Joe & Wardlow lined up too, it's kind of a giveaway that MJF isn't losing (or maybe he is, in which case, fine). Plus, White is and should be by far the biggest threat. MJF already beat Joe once, clean, and Wardlow ain't winning no world title (that would be such a joke). So there's an awkward dynamic here, unless like I said, after all White wins the title (which he very well could and maybe should). But in that case, the other two guys angles are going nowhere.

The Devil stuff is puzzling, it's like they did a whodunnit before Cole was injured with an idea but now it's all screwed up because Cole ain't coming back before who knows when. I feel like they have stalling it on purpose, because there's really no development at all on that side, and no, having random appearances on screen ain't good storytelling nor CINEMA ! like fanboys would scream about Bray Wyatt's stuff. I feel there's 90% chance the reveal is gonna be quite disappointing (well, there's a way to not be, by setting yourself up for failure anyway). 

7 hours ago, Jmare007 said:

Everything else in AEW relies 90% on match making and match quality. And stuff like Miro and his wife, Skye Blue going to the ¿blue side? and Santana/Ortiz are not angles that can carry a TV show.

Pretty much, although really the only thing that matters in the one or two main event level angles/programs. When a promotion is hot, everything gets hotter by sheer osmosis, or gets ignored anyway and t doesn't matter (The Attitude Era being the most shinning instance of this). Of course that doesn't mean supporting acts aren't important, they are, but AEW is and was always all about the in-ring product first and foremost, and from that perspective, it's hard to complain. But at some point, how much really good wrestling can you watch before having your fill ? (well, you can always try your hand at really bad wrestling for a change and watch Corgan's NWA, holy shit I've watched some of that Samhain show, it's the bottom of the last fucking barrel)

[NintendoLogic]

Maybe Dolph Ziggler is the devil and they're waiting for his non-compete to expire to do the reveal.

[Matt D]

11 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

Maybe Dolph Ziggler is the devil and they're waiting for his non-compete to expire to do the reveal.

I’d rather it be Cole Karter again than that.

[Jmare007]

6 hours ago, sek69 said:

Cole and MJF were hugely over when Cole's ankle exploded. Their chemistry had goofy shit like Kangaroo Kick and Double Clothesline getting mega pops from the crowd. The whole story of MJF finally feeling true friendship was silly but at the same time had heart behind it that made it easy to get behind. IMO all the stuff with Roddy and AAAAAAAAAAAADAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM is funny but that IMO started things down the path of no longer being compelling since it's a one note joke being stretched too far. The Kingdom guys are working their asses off to save it (the NeckStrong song was great) but its still going nowhere. 

The MJF/Cole pairing is massively over to this day, imo. But they stopped being an act you HAD to watch live after All In. It went from a hot angle with potential to turn things around for the company to a popular act with no real direction in a matter of 1 show. Then Cole got injured and they pretty much had no other choice but to keep the comedy sketch route that can't really go anywhere until he can come back.

3 hours ago, El-P said:

I like the barrage of chalengers coming in from everywhere and overwhelming MJF. The one issue is that since they are building toward Jay White, who should be the biggest threat. By having Joe & Wardlow lined up too, it's kind of a giveaway that MJF isn't losing (or maybe he is, in which case, fine). Plus, White is and should be by far the biggest threat. MJF already beat Joe once, clean, and Wardlow ain't winning no world title (that would be such a joke). So there's an awkward dynamic here, unless like I said, after all White wins the title (which he very well could and maybe should). But in that case, the other two guys angles are going nowhere.

 

It reminds me a little of Danielson ROH title reign when he was feuding with Strong, Joe, Nigel, with KENTA looming in the horizon, while at the same time having mini feuds with midcard talent like Delirious and Cabana and the end goal being Homicide getting the title at some point (though Danielson being the champ to get dethroned by him wasn't required).

White winning would be a nice twist and would require an interesting reshuffling but at this point I have no faith TK can pull that off. Besides, with Worlds End being in Long Island, it kinds of hard picturing MJF defending or winning the strap back at the PPV.

[El-P]

Conspiracy theory of the day : Richard Holliday is now the Devil. Him and MJF go back to the MLW days as part of The Dynasty. Holliday just came back from battling cancer, and although he was part of a WWE try-out (or visit at the performance center) some time ago, there's no news about him being hired. And MJF posted a picture of him in bed with Alicia Atout... who a few months back was still Holliday's IRL girlfriend. I could see them playing on real life stuff and trans-promotions history (like they do with Adam Cole and the Kingdom), considering the Cole storyline is clearly on hold for a while. Plus, the MJF Holliday dynamic was very much gold, and it would be pretty cool to see them together again.

(hey, I hear Alexander Hammerstone asked for his release from MLW, which has not been granted yet but hey, the Dynasty was pretty much the highlight of MLW's peak alongside whatever Salina de la Renta was doing. Get Atout in the mix and you get a winning combo)

[Timbo Slice]

They switched up the PBP to Tony Schiavone on Collision over Kevin Kelly and it’s almost like night and day. Happy Tony gets to be a lead guy again. 

[The Thread Killer]

I don’t know if it’s because there aren’t many people there or what, but this KC crowd for Collision are DEAD. 

Mind you, they haven’t been given much to cheer about. Feels like this Acclaimed segment is never going to end.