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Dave Meltzer stuff

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Then there's this embarrassing attempt at whataboutism from Garrett.

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Whatever you may think of Gage, he paid his debt to society and has expressed genuine remorse for what he did. Mitchell doubled and tripled down and still tries to justify his actions to this very day.

Also of note, Bryan Alvarez didn't know about the show until it went up. I'm sure he's thrilled to see mass cancellations (or at least threats thereof) over something he had nothing to do with and likely would have shut down if he had known about it.

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Garrett Gonzales is a dumbass. His biggest asset was being so generic and having such a pointless existence, he would just completely fade into the background while Meltzer talked to his guest. Clearly I see why. As soon as he opened his mouth, he spouted off some spectacularly dumb takes. Someone should tell Dave that his boy is using false equivalence points about how it is "ironic" to not show intolerance to assholes, that are straight out of the racism and nazism apologist playbook. 

The point about Meltzer being too online is accurate, as is thinking that everyone is out to cancel them, but given that Meltzer undoubtedly spoke to Amanda Huber and numerous close friends of Brodie, it is really disappointing to see him give a platform to his old friend cuz the wokes are running rampant with cancel culture. 

Trevor, who posts as @Hobbes here, said everything I could have wanted to, except he used a much much nicer tone than I would have. I am going to repost it here 

 

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53 minutes ago, PeteF3 said:

Twitter has poisoned Dave's brain. He wastes so much time arguing with bad-faith actors on behalf of Prichard and Bischoff that he's starting to see any criticism at all as being from that same kind of mob.

Absolutely

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1 hour ago, MoS said:

Garrett Gonzales is a dumbass. His biggest asset was being so generic and having such a pointless existence, he would just completely fade into the background while Meltzer talked to his guest. Clearly I see why. As soon as he opened his mouth, he spouted off some spectacularly dumb takes. Someone should tell Dave that his boy is using false equivalence points about how it is "ironic" to not show intolerance to assholes, that are straight out of the racism and nazism apologist playbook. 

The point about Meltzer being too online is accurate, as is thinking that everyone is out to cancel them, but given that Meltzer undoubtedly spoke to Amanda Huber and numerous close friends of Brodie, it is really disappointing to see him give a platform to his old friend cuz the wokes are running rampant with cancel culture. 

Trevor, who posts as @Hobbes here, said everything I could have wanted to, except he used a much much nicer tone than I would have. I am going to repost it here 

 

As always, Trevor puts it best.

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Bryan, who should be noted didn't know about this before it was posted per several people who work for the site, posted on the Board to say the interview would be pulled and he understood anyone who canceled their subscription over it since he always tells people to vote with their wallets. 

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Apparently *nobody* on the site knew about it until it was up. Just inconceivable on Dave's part. I'm absolutely okay with him having an actual discussion with Bruce, but to just do a Joe Rogan and let him spout off and quadruple down on his original column is incomprehensible. 

I can *sort of* see why Dave might not have been 100% in the loop because this whole fiasco took place while he was planning his mother's funeral and wrestling, even a major story like Jon Huber's death, was probably about the last thing on his mind. But he had to have read the article by now and I don't know how anyone can evaluate it as meeting any kind of publishable, journalistic standard.

It scarcely needs a rebuttal here, but someone gently remind Garrett that no, Bruce Mitchell does *not* "have the right" to a wrestling journalism career, assuming that's what he means by living his life doing what he enjoys.

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47 minutes ago, PeteF3 said:

Apparently *nobody* on the site knew about it until it was up.

Not quite nobody. Joseph Currier knew and tried to prevent it from being put up.

Dave's silence in this situation is deafening. It's not a case of him being offline because he's been opining about the vital issue of the length of MMA fighter contracts on Twitter today. After the Peyton Royce kerfuffle, he said he was advised by people who advise celebrities that apologizing is the worst thing you can do in a situation like this because it only makes the story not go away but he didn't care because it was the right thing to do. Not commenting for this long suggests that either he now thinks those people were right about never apologizing or he believes he's done nothing wrong. Neither is a good look.

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Dave talked about it on the beginning of today's WO radio show, and while I get the sense he still thinks Bruce got a raw deal, he acknowledged the vast amount of feedback was negative. He also took full responsibility and more or less apologized to Bryan for putting him in a bad spot (and probably hitting his wallet since there were a lot of people screenshotting that they canceled their subs over it). 

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He absolutely owed an apology to Alvarez. By all accounts Bryan did not know this interview was happening. I am not an Alvarez fan, but he is Dave's business partner and the co-owner of the site. Catching him by surprise like that was unprofessional and inconsiderate.

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I like everyone involved except for Bruce!

I want to be fair, because I actually listened to the podcast a bit after it dropped without knowing of any firestorm (though when I was done listening I expected there would be one)

I really dislike Mitchell.  I also quite like Dave and regularly defend him.  Old posts of mine here are consistent in both of those stances.

I was surprised to see it at all because I thought Mitchell was generally still persona non grata these days.  That said, it was mostly talking about the rasslin documentaries (which is a whole other topic....), and he's a historian who's friends with Dave so whatever.

When I knew it was a bad idea is when they shifted to cover the controversy.  I knew they would, and I wanted to see what Bruce had to say with the benefit of hindsight.  Instead he basically just doubled down again more or less, talked about cancel culture, focused on the people who put words in his mouth rather than read his article, and generally just defended the article.

So.......where to begin....

I felt bad for Dave in the middle of this part of interview because I think he started to realize what a mistake he'd made giving his old friend this platform, and tried to kind of agree with Bruce with his own stories of "catching heat online" while not actually defending Bruce....but also not challenging him at all.  And then it kinda goes downhill from there and ends with Bruce plugging his new podcast which I guarantee you I will never listen to....and here we are.

I knew as soon as it was over that Dave would regret....not so much recording it....but putting it up for public consumption.  Dave has a blind spot here and needed someone be it Bryan or Garrett to proofread and listen to the show before it went up....or just tell him the timing wasn't right.  But at the same time I REALLY want to defend a larger point, and this is me in general, just not the Dave stan:

Why shouldn't Bruce Mitchell be allowed to do a show with his old friend Dave Meltzer?  I, with none of Bruce's experience, could have told Mitchell not to publish that column when he did.  It was insanely insensitive timing wise.  If he wanted to write about the risks to performers during the pandemic and promotions maybe not being super responsible it's one thing, but to tie that into wild speculation when a young man with a family died was just insanely poor judgement on his part.  I'm not sure if he's just an idiot (and having read some articles and heard him for years off and on I genuinely think he's really just an idiot) or if it was for clicks/controversy.....but if he didn't see the reaction he got coming wtf

But all that said....I wrote off Mitchell years ago based on my own judgements of his writing and his opinions.  I don't think he or anyone should be "canceled" for one poorly timed, inarticulately conceived column.  And that's the bottom line for me.  Cancel culture and the woke mob can go fuck themselves, that's one thing I agree with Bruce on.  I don't think Dave expected the backlash because quite frankly it's beyond outsized to the perceived offense almost every single time.  Based on this thread F4W subscribers were freaking out and threatening to cancel without even listening?!?!?!  I thought we were all about tolerance and second chances???  What did Bruce do exactly that was so unforgivable?  I actively dislike the man but I can't ever allow myself to be that "enlightened".....

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tldr version:  I actually listened and I don't like Bruce.  He had a chance with a big platform to redeem himself and did a shit job of it.  Lots of "woke" people didn't even give him a chance to explain himself, and that's hella lame. You can't preach tolerance if you can't actually handle practicing it.  Peace

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With all due respect..... someone facing consquences  for being a shit person isn't being "cancelled by the woke mob", dude had a  million chances to apologize back when it happened but he kept fucking that proverbial chicken and doubled down every time. He's not entitled to be on Dave's show or anywhere else.  

...and now a word from frankly the only person who's opinion truly matters in all this:

 

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So yeah, not gonna agree with the "this is just all woke cancel culture getting BIG MAD for no reason" when the fucking widow of the guy was accused of being a part of a coverup about her husband's death not even a full day later.

 

I can aaaaaaaaaaaaaaalmost see where Bruce is coming from in terms of rushing to conclusions that seem to make sense in your brain immediately after a tragedy. Anyone who was online when Benoit happened can attest to that. He should have taken the reaction he received at that time to sit back and think "you know, I think I may have fucked up royally here".  Instead he pulled a Principal Skinner "no, it's the children who are out of touch" so fuck him. 

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