S.L.L. Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 Well, yes, the baggage is attached to it now. It wasn't when he signed up three months ago. I'm guessing that's what the rationale was. Fat lot of good it does him now, but I personally will extend him the low-level message board courtesy of letting him have his second chance until he gives me reason to start accusing him of being a sexual predator again. I don't think that's an unreasonable stance to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 Dave's writeup on Kobashi in the 2nd WON of the week is phenomenal. Dave at his best. Eh... That spring, even though Kobashi may have already been the best in-ring performer in pro wrestling, he placed a distant seventh in the Champion Carnival tournament, behind the more established Hansen, Misawa, Gordy, Williams, Kawada and Taue. But during the tournament, he pinned Gordy. Except he didn't. But at the end of the year, on the company’s biggest show of 1993, the tag team tournament final, Misawa & Kobashi won the first of their record setting three straight Real World Tag League championships, beating Kawada & Taue, and it was Kobashi who scored the pin on Kawada, his first time getting a pinfall win of his own in a Budokan Hall main event. To further establish them as the new stars of the promotion, Misawa & Kobashi beat Baba & Hansen at the next Budokan show when Baba put over Misawa clean, which may have been the last time Baba was pinned, while working his final-ever Budokan main event. Wait... KENTA KOBASHI BUDOKAN HALL HISTORY [...] 12/10/94: w/Mitsuharu Misawa def. Steve Williams & Johnny Ace (2nd from top; 16,300 sellout) So what was on top of that card? That's right... Baba & Hansen vs Kawada & Taue. Note: there were other times where Dave correctly called something "co-main event" at Budokan. The 12/10/94 card, the Final Night of the Year, was a co-main event situation with those tags. Earlier... Baba booked him to lose his first 63 singles matches, but also instructed his opponents, unless they were the headliners, to let him shine every night. From the start, they knew they had something in him, but it was a slow journey that they wanted the fans to invest in. He didn't "lose" his first 63 singles matches. He actually was "winless"... and it was in his first 65 singles matches. He had 63 losses and 2 DCOR before beating Snow. He didn’t work in singles matches against anyone at his level of experience So this is one that I knew generally off the top of my head without having to look up the details: Kobashi and Taue debuted extremely close together as part of the same general class. Taue beat Kobashi early and often, including in their rookie years. This isn't hard. Details in case someone thinks I'm blowing smoke: Akira Taue: debuted January 2, 1988 Kenta Kobashi: "debuted" February 26, 1988 http://www.purolove.com/noah/kobashi/kobashi88.php #0063 | 16.07.1988 @ Takamatsu Citizen Bunka Center: - Akira Taue besiegt Kenta Kobashi (10:33) mit einem Blockbuster. #0071 | 27.07.1988 @ Nagano Citizen Gymnasium: - Akira Taue besiegt Kenta Kobashi (7:19) mit einem Blockbuster Wait, this is even more entertaining: Kenta Kobashi: "debuted" February 26, 1988 Dustin Rhodes: debut September 13, 1988 http://www.purolove.com/noah/kobashi/kobashi89.php #0164 | 08.04.1989 @ Ebino Worker Center: - Dusty Rhodes Jr. besiegt Kenta Kobashi (12:25) mit einem Diving Elbow Drop I'm fearful of looking at much of the rest. 1991 doesn't exist in the bio, 1992 exists just in the form of teaming with Baba in the Tag Tourney and Jumbo going out and 1993 exists just in the form of pinning Kawada in the Final Match Of The Year. 3 years of Kobashi growth largely glossed over with a "he was kinda growing in the years" coverage. Okay... another peak... Oh dear god... Kobashi spike business up in All Japan in 1998 when winning the Triple Crown? Wait a fucking minute. Misawa was going to take a long time off. Not just off of holding the TC, but off of working to heal up his banged up body. Instead, he was rushed back after just *two* Budokans that he didn't appear on: Kawada vs Kobashi and Kobashi vs Akiyama. Then as he was returning, Misawa was very clear that he wasn't going to be challenging for the TC (and signaling it was Kobashi's time to show what he had)... except that Baba not only booked him into the 10/98 Budokan to challenge for the title, but booked Misawa to win it back from Kobashi. Those weren't Misawa's call: it was the pressure of business being bad to force him back early, and then Baba wanting the belt off Kobashi and back in Misawa. Yeah... this is "Dave at his best" doing an "All Japan Bio/Obit". It's up there with the ones on Baba, Jumbo and Misawa as being disappointing... and that's as kindly as I can put it. :/ John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 FWIW, Kobashi 1990-94 career has been covered better *here* in the Yearbook threads... and it's not like anyone is trying really hard to cover that part of his career specifically. It's just stuff that's popped up in discussions. It's a bit disappointing since Dave has known of Kobashi's retirement for months, had time to hammer this out, and you'd kind of think that even factoring me out of the equation that he'd have at least one person he knows who could (i) fact check, and (ii) add more to 5 key developmental years. You know... the years where the "greatest wrestler of all-time" point that he spends time on actually began. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted May 22, 2013 Report Share Posted May 22, 2013 smackdown spoilers are on the free main site now? When did this happen? It's been years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 The WCW/ECW/WWE piece brought this week's issue to a screeching halt. That, to me, is Dave at his worst -- 7,500 words of regurgitated history without much of a time hook or a cogent argument. He was reacting to Barbed Wire City and some WWE.com piece, but he didn't really explain what he thought of either. Just an awful slog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 It's like it came out of nowhere although it was really his answer to the great WWE.com oral history about what would've happened if ECW got on USA Network Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 Did Dave ever finish his History of the WWF Title and History of WCW pieces? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 The WCW/ECW/WWE piece brought this week's issue to a screeching halt. That, to me, is Dave at his worst -- 7,500 words of regurgitated history without much of a time hook or a cogent argument. He was reacting to Barbed Wire City and some WWE.com piece, but he didn't really explain what he thought of either. Just an awful slog. Yeah had the same feelings. Mystified at the praise. No real new info or particularly well written or cohesive. The premise was much more interesting than the article itself. It did get me to think about buying the latest Total Extreme Warfare games and downloading a 2001 scenario to play with though. It's like it came out of nowhere although it was really his answer to the great WWE.com oral history about what would've happened if ECW got on USA Network Mike Johnson often plays that game aloud himself. Low Ki somewhat famously got his start date for ECW at Guilty As Charged 2001. So there's your bridge to that era of guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 Besides how surprisingly rehashed it was the weirdest thing for me was how Dave didn't really acknowledge if UMG being ready to invest in ECW was a true story or something Paul spun together out of the truth of whatever the actual Farmclub deal was. He went straight from Heyman's claim about thay to Billy Corgan's story from Barbed Wire City about Paul asking for $1 million for 10% of the company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Ridge Posted May 26, 2013 Report Share Posted May 26, 2013 I've notice on the daily update's that the most recent of the most requested newsletters is almost 4 and a half years old. No longer a subscriber so has he just not released good enough newsletters in the past few years or he just not updating his records? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted May 27, 2013 Report Share Posted May 27, 2013 Yeah, I've wondered about that. I think it's just a typical Meltzer quirk, where he just stopped updating it for some reason, and not because there haven't been requested issues. Since 2008 he has done bios on Rose, Tolos, Shire, Albano, Jack Brisco, Savage, among others, plus Misawa's death bio and a bunch of stuff that must have been "in demand". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted May 27, 2013 Report Share Posted May 27, 2013 Plus the merger was in 2008. Everything starting with the June 9, 2008 issue is on the website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditch Posted May 27, 2013 Report Share Posted May 27, 2013 On the MMA Hour, Dave brushed off talk of getting a Pulitzer, saying he writes too much quantity to do super-high-level quality. Clearly he's self-aware about his writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted May 29, 2013 Report Share Posted May 29, 2013 There is no category for a given year where his work would warrant it. It's not some kind of Lifetime Achievement Award. Seriously... take a spin through the categories and try to figure out where Dave would ever product work in a given year that would warrant being submitted. There are always some stupid shit winners like Friedman and Dowd. But if you look at the typical reporting awards, they are at a level of stories that Dave doesn't touch. Hell, the great black hole of 30 years of the WON is Investigative Reporting... which Dave just doesn't do. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nell Santucci Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 There is no category for a given year where his work would warrant it. It's not some kind of Lifetime Achievement Award. Seriously... take a spin through the categories and try to figure out where Dave would ever product work in a given year that would warrant being submitted. There are always some stupid shit winners like Friedman and Dowd. But if you look at the typical reporting awards, they are at a level of stories that Dave doesn't touch. Hell, the great black hole of 30 years of the WON is Investigative Reporting... which Dave just doesn't do. :/ Yeah, Thomas Friedman is a goofball. Only in America would the press give voice to a guy who pushes the McWorld Theory of Peace hypothesis when the empirical record that spans several hundred years negates his delusions. China made peace with the US out of nuclear threats, not because they had some affinity toward democracy. There will never be world peace until the security dilemma is resolved - a problem that the United Nations has resolved only for low- and medium-risk security issues. Hell, they can't even get the US to sign the Kyoto Protocol. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooley Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 On the MMA Hour, Dave brushed off talk of getting a Pulitzer, saying he writes too much quantity to do super-high-level quality. Clearly he's self-aware about his writing. Admitting he's not worthy of a Pulitzer doesn't make him any more aware of the glaring flaws in his writing than anyone on this board. It's like me admitting I may not be worthy of a Nobel Peace Prize. As I've said before: Meltz is the greatest pro wres journalist ever. That and 5 bucks gets you a grande latte at starbucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 Not exactly. Being the greatest pro wrestling journalist ever has allowed Dave to make a six figure income for over 20 years. That's enough to buy a LOT of grande lattes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 Is there anyone who seriously thinks that Dave deserves a Pulitzer? The suggestion by that British guy was clearly tongue-in-cheek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 There is huge heat on Henry right now from the creative side. They had a storyline planned for him, and after the Sheamus match, or at some point last week, he said he was banged up and needed to take time off due to injuries. As a general rule, while they say they want people to rest when they are hurt, they usually push them unless it’s something major like a concussions or neck or knee issues, the pressure is on them not to miss dates. We’ve seen examples of guys needing knee surgery who are asked to stay a few weeks for what’s already laid out and to build for an angle to give a storyline injury reason. Henry saying he was going home after losing to Sheamus was something added at the last minute once Henry told them he was injured and taking time off, and was not part of a long scripted plan to lead to a face turn as it seemed the way it was planned and going. The feeling was they had done all this to get him hot and then he left. According to those in the company, the heat was he was taking a significant bit of time off without undergoing surgery, although at press time, the official company word is that it has not been determined yet whether Henry will be needing surgery. That was the reason for JBL’s“took his ball and went home” references on Raw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 The idea that they were "heating" Henry up is laughable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nell Santucci Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 So in this week's Observer, Meltzer acknowledges that there might be some truth to the Stephanie/Savage rumors and that Vince purportedly found out years later rather than at the time. Had it been the latter, the rumor never would have made sense. People within Vince'sinner circle a decade ago talked about the two as if it was fact. One writer from two years ago speculated that Vince cringed at the thought of the tribute video airing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 We have a Savage thread that talks about it and pretty much shreds it as a bullshit story/theory. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nell Santucci Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 We have a Savage thread that talks about it and pretty much shreds it as a bullshit story/theory. John I thought it was bull for the longest time, but assuming Vince found out years later, that changes the initial conclusion. What is for sure is that something happened to the point where Vince won't make amends, which is unusual for a guy who is always willing to do business with enemies. It's quite telling that Lanny won't deny the rumors. It's likely that he doesn't know one way or the other, but it's doubtful anyone can negate those rumors seasoning Vince found out years later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 So for the past month or so I've been thinking "PWO's gone a bit quiet of late". I've just read the past 10 pages of this thread. Holy shit. I missed a lot of action there. From Meltzer has autism, to Andrews vs. Loss, to "Did Twin Peaks fail?", to bloody CRICKET discussion and a whole lot more. Thanks for an entertaining 40 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted May 30, 2013 Report Share Posted May 30, 2013 Also, one thing we can be sure that Meltzer isn't judging by the state of that room is OCD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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