Dave Meltzer stuff

[rzombie1988]

All I could think if watching that is how that's how Nia Jax should be booked. None of this "try to make the monster look pretty" stuff, just straight up destruction.

 

Also, I'm amazed broken noses didn't happen more often, considering the person doing a spinning backfist is kind of just hoping the person is close enough to make it look legit without smashing their face.

You can book Nia Jax any way you want, but there's only one Aja Kong and she's still just as awesome as she used to be in 2016.

[sek69]

Well yes, she's not going to be as awesome as Aja but she's the blueprint for how to book a female monster.

[C.S.]

How the hell do you cancel a subscription? I'm not seeing an option on either their site or PayPal. (Torch was easy to cancel, so I know the procedure.)

 

Edit: Never mind. I found it on the F4W site. Very easy to miss.

[cpst]

Snippy Dave is the best Dave on Twitter: https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/815113607222431744

[dedhemingway]

How is David Otunga "clearly not suited" for commentary? He's been just fine on Smackdown.

No one would ever hire a handsome, built, articulate Harvard graduate with a law degree and a Grammy (Or was it an Oscar?) winning wife. Yeah, that's not the type of successful, driven person you want in your company, it must be because they need more black dudes!

[SomethingSavage]

I realize he's not everyone's favorite, but Otunga has actually shown improvement during his short time on commentary already. He still doesn't have the most dynamic personality or anything, but he contributes. The guy always seems to be having fun. He leaves himself wide open for all the "wife" jokes they can possibly throw at him.

 

Oh, and his reactions to "big" moments, betrayals and near-falls are fantastic. He buys in with a certain enthusiasm - shouting "OHH-HO" and sounding genuinely caught up, without feeling forced at gunpoint the way some others do. There are times when you can almost hear him cringe at a nasty-looking bump, etc. And it really adds to the action for me.

Again, I can't speak for anyone else - but I don't see how he's a lost cause at all. Given how much he's improved in the past few months, I'd definitely find room for the guy to stick around - and just see where he goes with time. If we're ranking announcers, he'd be somewhere in the middle of the pile (at the moment) and actually trending upward.

[fakeplastictrees]

In the age of 'corporate commentary', I have zero problems with Otunga. In an era where being as non-descriptive and non-charismatic as possible can land someone a leading commentary/interviewer spot in a major company (Josh Matthews, Todd Grisham, etc.)--Otunga stands out among the fray.

[raul]

typo or not, six stars is probably the funniest dave moment for me

[pol]

Almost doubt it's a typo. As I said elsewhere, that was the most Dave match ever.

[hammerva]

Well given that Dave said that WrestleKingdom 11 would probably be the best show of 2017 IN DECEMBER, the idea of him a 6 star match on that show isn't that unrealistic

[GSR]

typo or not, six stars is probably the funniest dave moment for me

 

Almost as funny as seeing all the people lose their shit on Twitter over Dave's opinion. I unfollowed nearly all the wrestling based accounts I had been following on Twitter just after Christmas bar Meltzer and a couple of people who are involved in the business and automatically feel better for having done so. Wrestling twitter is such a weird place and I'm so glad I don't have to read the majority of that nonsense any more.

[rzombie1988]

 

typo or not, six stars is probably the funniest dave moment for me

 

Almost as funny as seeing all the people lose their shit on Twitter over Dave's opinion. I unfollowed nearly all the wrestling based accounts I had been following on Twitter just after Christmas bar Meltzer and a couple of people who are involved in the business and automatically feel better for having done so. Wrestling twitter is such a weird place and I'm so glad I don't have to read the majority of that nonsense any more.

 

People take Dave's ratings seriously. I don't think that's something to take for granted on his part. He's one of the few people that when they speak, people listen. I personally think everyone is biased including myself and do think Dave has always been a fan of the current style.

 

I never thought of Dave as a TMZ guy who wants to troll for headlines and I hope that's not the case here. I legit hope he is really to defend his rating or he's going to lose credibility.

 

But holy fuck is it frustrating to be a wrestling fan if that is the new crown jewel of wrestling.

[Grimmas]

Man... what is a 5 1/2 star match? Now I have to rerate my entire database?

[JNLister]

 

typo or not, six stars is probably the funniest dave moment for me

 

Almost as funny as seeing all the people lose their shit on Twitter over Dave's opinion.

 

 

Brings a new meaning to "special snowflake".

[Coffey]

 

 

typo or not, six stars is probably the funniest dave moment for me

 

Almost as funny as seeing all the people lose their shit on Twitter over Dave's opinion. I unfollowed nearly all the wrestling based accounts I had been following on Twitter just after Christmas bar Meltzer and a couple of people who are involved in the business and automatically feel better for having done so. Wrestling twitter is such a weird place and I'm so glad I don't have to read the majority of that nonsense any more.

 

People take Dave's ratings seriously. I don't think that's something to take for granted on his part. He's one of the few people that when they speak, people listen. I personally think everyone is biased including myself and do think Dave has always been a fan of the current style.

 

I never thought of Dave as a TMZ guy who wants to troll for headlines and I hope that's not the case here. I legit hope he is really to defend his rating or he's going to lose credibility.

 

But holy fuck is it frustrating to be a wrestling fan if that is the new crown jewel of wrestling.

 

 

Yes because now all future matches are going to try to be like that match. So I hope you like having six-thousand moves, none that mean shit, kicking out of all of them and 50-minute epics again.

 

Top Rope Dragon Suplex. 2-count!

 

Same stupid fucking shit that people killed Davey Richards over but it's in Japan, so it's six stars now.

 

If it were just Dave Meltzer's opinion and he was an everyday dude, no one would care, myself included. But his opinion has influence. Even over some wrestlers in the business. This is definitely going to affect things. People will want to try to one-up this match and get Dave to give them SEVEN stars! If it features the Young Bucks, it has a shot~!

[Grimmas]

***** started in 1989 with Flair/Steamboat.

****** started in 2017 with Omega/Okada.

 

7 stars won't be until the 2045, so we can relax about that one.

[rzombie1988]

Just watched the match.

Nothing was wrong with the early portion of it but nothing really stuck out. The biggest thing I noticed is that Omega rushes and goes at 100MPH on everything, whether it be moves or transitions. There's no struggle, there's no fight, he just does his shit and that's the way it is.

Then the late middle of the match hits. Omega hits a super dragon suplex, which AFAIK, I don't believe I've ever seen, at least as a non-release version. They wait about 3 seconds and they do a 2.9 kickout. Wut? This pretty much destroyed the match. I've watched wrestling for over 20+ years and I've never seen this move done, making it quite important...and it's used a transition.

Match is pretty much just 100MPH garbage from there on out. Omega does cartoony flip bumps for everything. Lots of reversals and big moves and video game style wrestling. Omega literally had to drag Okada out of selling for most of the match to do that next big move. Okada gets the win and it was about as bad as the Omega/Ibushi Sumo Hall match a few years ago.

Now onto the rating. I look for these types of things when I want to judge how good a match was:

- How realistic it was?

- How effective was it at hitting the simple things right to make the bigger things more meaningful?

- The heat

- Did they take it to the next level and make it truly unique?

- Did they botch anything?

- Did it flow from start to finish?

- Did it have any real story to it?

- Did they have any particularly memorable exchanges?

And suffice to say, it doesn't really hold its weight. The heat wasn't anything special. I didn't see any story except for "your move/my move". It wasn't realistic in any way. They didn't really botch anything. Flow was okay til the Dragon Suplex and there weren't any real exchanges. No one did anything much different here or worked better than they can. Kenny, while a very nice person IRL, would have worked a match at a random indy show the same exact way.

I thought it was building towards a 3-4 star match up until the dragon suplex and I guess that move scrambled both guys brains because it went to indy hell right after.

If this is what symbolizes wrestling in 2016, I'll just stick to old AJW and old Memphis, because this was crap. I'd give it maybe somewhere between 1-3 stars tops and I truly just want to give it a big fat flying 1 star rating.

[Childs]

I know it's easy to make fun of the six-star thing, but Dave's trying to convey that he thought the match hit a whole new level. And I don't begrudge him that, even if I'm unlikely to agree once I've seen it. I understand that by changing the scale, he's going against his own dogma of saying the ratings are relative to era and setting. But he's never been intellectually rigorous as a match critic, so why would we expect him to start now?

[Fando]

Kids have been and are still saying the same thing about this being match of the decade (and next decade) and all kinds of hyperbole on twitter and tumblr immediately after the match without any influence from Meltzer. It's what a lot of people enjoy out of a big match.

 

I thought the most surprising thing Dave said, from WOR, was that KENNY OMEGA is "The Guy" that WWE is looking for.

[sek69]

Well, I mean he kind of is. He has the look that they want and really it's a bonus if anyone who has the look they want can wrestle.

[Fando]

[Grimmas]

I don't like Seth Rollins or Omega, but how is Omega more of a WWE guy they want then Rollins? Very bizarre statement.

[Fando]

But not as bizarre as him saying Omega's cringy promos are better than AJ's.

[Dylan Waco]

I knew Dave would go at least 4 1/2 stars before the match even happened and I don't even mean that as a troll. It's Wrestle Kingdom. It's his favorite promotion. It's two wrestlers he is very found of. It's like me seeing Jimmy Rave v. Martin Stone at the last AWE show of the year - I expected to love it and assumed it would be great, and I loved it and thought it was great. I'm not saying you can't engage critically, but we all carry preferences and biases. I haven't read his review, but I would be interested to see if he bothered to engage with the common criticisms of the match I've seen. That said, I don't care at all if Dave liked that match or any other.

 

I do care when he labels all who disagree with him as contrarians and then tries to walk it back when he realizes how much of an asshole it makes him look like, but I don't subscribe to the Observer at this point anyhow (in large part due to this sort of thing from Dave), so even that I take as I would take any other trolls behavior.

[fxnj]

Didn't Meltzer give ****** to a 1989 Flair/Steamboat handheld at a random house show? He also rated Toyota/Inoue 1992 "*****+++" based off a clipped version.