Dave Meltzer stuff

[rovert]

Apter just flat out said that he didn't follow MMA and said that the one PRIDE show he went to was the most violent stuff he'd ever seen and that includes the boxing shows he used to shoot pictures for.

Just to add to this he said he was repulsed in a similar way by Tully and Dusty's barbed wire matches in which they would intentionally just rip and tear open each other’s flesh. He made a joke that he makes an exception for Dan Severn.

[Bix]

Per the new WOR, Dave doesn't watch Smackdown. I had figured he just didn't have time to watch it live and write it up.

[KrisZ]

Yeah Chico has been doing the reports every week over the past few months.

[Bix]

I knew that. I didn't think Dave actually never watched the show.

[KrisZ]

He watches it in fact he watched the first part of last week's show before Chico did. He just doesn't watch it to take notes, he watches it just to see the main stuff.

[Bix]

Well, last night he said "I knew that, and I don't even watch Smackdown" when talking about something.

[kjh]

I get the sense that Dave tries to watch all of Smackdown every week, but doesn't always succeed in a particularly busy week.

[KrisZ]

He has been burying the Edge/Kane angle for weeks talking about how shitty it was so he's been watching that even though he hates it.

[rovert]

Dave saw the Kane-Edge Benny Hill video on Smackdown before Bryan so he watches.

[soup23]

I get the impression that Dave on Smackdown either doesn't watch it at all or just one segment on his busy weeks or watches the main highlights and skips the filler on other weeks.

[Robert S]

--DID YOU KNOW

For the month of November, wrestlingobserver.com traffic ranked ahead of wwe.com.....

In South Korea and about the same in Argentina.

from the daily news update on Monday

[Bix]

From today's update:

 

David Arquette checked into rehab yesterday. I'm avoiding the former WCW champion checking into rehab headline even though it is technically correct after a New Year's Eve party. People magazine reports it is for problems with alcohol and depression. Arquette was on Howard Stern recently and said he thinks he's going through a nervous breakdown after his split from Courtney Cox

Finally!

[Matt D]

Dave gushing about his first live exposure to UWF in the January 85 Observer is really fascinating stuff. I was going to put up some excerpts but I'm not even sure what to pick.

 

A lot of talk about not knowing the meaning of the word "selling," no rest holds, no working the crowd, the extreme realism, being as close to a shoot as one could get.

 

Okay, I'll go with this, re the Super Tiger vs Yoshiaki Fujiwara match:

 

"One of the reasons I enjoy wrestling is that I can see all the visual violence and never have to deal with the consequences (brain damage, permanent injuries) as in boxing."

[Ditch]

1/3 issue: "John Cena beat Wade Barrett in a cage match. The General Manager announced that if anyone interfered during this match, Barrett would be put on suspension. Well, if he would have gotten suspended, he could have pleaded that he had hypointerference, and needed interference for health reasons, and at least got the suspension cut back in half."

[Johnny Sorrow]

Coming from the thread re: Larry Matysik on the radio show, they had said something about Lawler being on the list of Top 50 Ever from the recent WWE DVD being ridiculous. In the thread, a couple of guys made the point that Lawler most definately belonged on a list like that. Dave's response:

 

The idea that Lawler doesn't belong in the top 50 being "absurd" is the only thing absurd here.

 

Guys clearly above Lawler on a list: Fritz Von Erich, Fred Blassie, Gene Kiniski, Dick the Bruiser, Bruno Sammartino, Verne Gagne, Buddy Rogers, Nick Bockwinkel, Johnny Valentine, The Sheik, Ray Stevens, Terry Funk, Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, The Rock, Lou Thesz, Jim Londos

 

Guys you could make a case should be above Lawler on a list: John Cena, Randy Orton, Batista, Karl Gotch, Destroyer, Bobo Brazil, Crusher, Pat O'Connor, Don Leo Jonathan, Edouard Carpentier, Curtis Iaukea, Danny Hodge, Pedro Morales, Mad Dog Vachon, Dory Funk, Jack Brisco, Harley Race, Ernie Ladd, Ivan Koloff, Mark Lewin, Wahoo McDaniel, Abdullah the Butcher, Dick Murdoch, Mil Mascaras, Billy Robinson, Superstar Graham, Johnny Powers, Bob Backund, Andre the Giant, Ricky Steamboat, Jimmy Snuka, Archie Gouldie, Dusty Rhodes, Ted DiBiase, Bruiser Brody, Stan Hansen, Barry Windham, Dynamite Kid, Randy Savage, Bret Hart, Sting, Vader, Chris Benoit, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker, Mick Foley, Rey Mysterio, Giant Baba, Keiji Muto, Bearcat Wright, John Tolos, Kinji Shibuya, Pat Patterson, Rocky Johnson, Tim Woods, Sgt. Slaughter, Paul Orndorff, Ken Patera, Don Muraco, Roddy Piper, HHH, Chris Jericho, Mr. Wrestling II, Jackie Fargo, Argentina Rocca, Leo Nomellini, Bill Miller, Killer Kowalski, Hans Schmidt, Bill Watts, Strangler Lewis, Joe Stecher, Bob Ellis, Dom DeNucci, Whipper Watson, Bronko Nagurski, Stanislaus Zbyszko, Wladek Zbyszko, Earl Caddock, Gus Sonnenberg, Ray Steele, Everett Marshall, Yvon Robert, Ed George, Danno O'Mahoney, Bill Longson, Gorgeous George, Ole Anderson, Ed Francis, Jerry Graham, George Hackenschmidt.

 

I'm not saying guys you could make a case that you can't argue Lawler should be ahead of, only you can very reasonably argue them above Lawler as well based on national prominence, drawing power, ring ability, getting over in more places or a number of other reasons.

 

So very easy to do a credible top 50, even eliminating foreign wrsetlers, just based on U.S. and Canada and not have Lawler in it.

 

Lawler is borderline top 50.

 

You could do a top 100, although that would be pushing it. Top 50 isn't even pushing it

What the hell? I know Dave isn't the biggest fan of Memphis Wrestling, but come on, man.

[Bix]

"The Memphis fans are used to a completely different brand of wrestling than the rest of us. It's not really wrestling, it's more wrestling with a comedy flair. For the most part I've felt the same way about Memphis wrestling as I feel about Indoor Soccer. I love soccer, and indoor soccer is not soccer, but I actually like it better than soccer."

[Johnny Sorrow]

OK, so help me out here. Back in early 87 when me and my pal first discovered the Observer, we'd read the Memphis reviews, and all the matches got like "one star- two stars" except for a series of matches between a young Jeff Jarrett and a partner I can't recall and Pat Tanaka and I THINK Paul Diamond that Dave was giving out "four stars" to. Who was Jarrett's partner? I'm pretty sure none of these matches are on the DVDVR Memphis set.

[Cox]

I think this would have been Billy Joe Travis.

[kjh]

I like Dave including plenty of wrestlers who aren't even in his Hall Of Fame in his list of doom. I guess Lawler is a borderline Hall Of Famer now.

[tomk]

Coming from the thread re: Larry Matysik on the radio show, they had said something about Lawler being on the list of Top 50 Ever from the recent WWE DVD being ridiculous. In the thread, a couple of guys made the point that Lawler most definately belonged on a list like that. Dave's response:

 

The idea that Lawler doesn't belong in the top 50 being "absurd" is the only thing absurd here.

 

Guys clearly above Lawler on a list: Fritz Von Erich, Fred Blassie, Gene Kiniski, Dick the Bruiser, Bruno Sammartino, Verne Gagne, Buddy Rogers, Nick Bockwinkel, Johnny Valentine, The Sheik, Ray Stevens, Terry Funk, Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, The Rock, Lou Thesz, Jim Londos

 

Guys you could make a case should be above Lawler on a list: John Cena, Randy Orton, Batista, Karl Gotch, Destroyer, Bobo Brazil, Crusher, Pat O'Connor, Don Leo Jonathan, Edouard Carpentier, Curtis Iaukea, Danny Hodge, Pedro Morales, Mad Dog Vachon, Dory Funk, Jack Brisco, Harley Race, Ernie Ladd, Ivan Koloff, Mark Lewin, Wahoo McDaniel, Abdullah the Butcher, Dick Murdoch, Mil Mascaras, Billy Robinson, Superstar Graham, Johnny Powers, Bob Backund, Andre the Giant, Ricky Steamboat, Jimmy Snuka, Archie Gouldie, Dusty Rhodes, Ted DiBiase, Bruiser Brody, Stan Hansen, Barry Windham, Dynamite Kid, Randy Savage, Bret Hart, Sting, Vader, Chris Benoit, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker, Mick Foley, Rey Mysterio, Giant Baba, Keiji Muto, Bearcat Wright, John Tolos, Kinji Shibuya, Pat Patterson, Rocky Johnson, Tim Woods, Sgt. Slaughter, Paul Orndorff, Ken Patera, Don Muraco, Roddy Piper, HHH, Chris Jericho, Mr. Wrestling II, Jackie Fargo, Argentina Rocca, Leo Nomellini, Bill Miller, Killer Kowalski, Hans Schmidt, Bill Watts, Strangler Lewis, Joe Stecher, Bob Ellis, Dom DeNucci, Whipper Watson, Bronko Nagurski, Stanislaus Zbyszko, Wladek Zbyszko, Earl Caddock, Gus Sonnenberg, Ray Steele, Everett Marshall, Yvon Robert, Ed George, Danno O'Mahoney, Bill Longson, Gorgeous George, Ole Anderson, Ed Francis, Jerry Graham, George Hackenschmidt.

 

I'm not saying guys you could make a case that you can't argue Lawler should be ahead of, only you can very reasonably argue them above Lawler as well based on national prominence, drawing power, ring ability, getting over in more places or a number of other reasons.

 

So very easy to do a credible top 50, even eliminating foreign wrsetlers, just based on U.S. and Canada and not have Lawler in it.

 

Lawler is borderline top 50.

 

You could do a top 100, although that would be pushing it. Top 50 isn't even pushing it

What the hell? I know Dave isn't the biggest fan of Memphis Wrestling, but come on, man.

 

Wait, wait. Looking through that list one name stood out.

 

someone ask Dave tomake the case for Ole based on national prominence, drawing power, ring ability, gettting over in more places or any number of other reasons. I want to hear Dave make the case for Ole.

 

I am pleased that Kurt is not on that list.

[Sean Liska]

Does it bother anyone that Dave is kind of a prick 90% of the time he posts? I know the board is horrible and that's the main cause, but it seems like it's easier to get a response by calling Dave a name than by asking a question.

[Cox]

I think it's a sign of how lousy the F4W board is. Dave was never like that on Wrestling Classics. He could get a little testy from time to time, but he didn't have the outright loathing that he has on the F4W board, and it's not like the dudes at Classics weren't loathsome.

[jdw]

Keith's point is pretty interesting.

 

Curtis Iaukea

Pedro Morales

Ivan Koloff

Mark Lewin

Dick Murdoch

Johnny Powers

Jimmy Snuka

Barry Windham

Bearcat Wright

John Tolos

Kinji Shibuya

Rocky Johnson

Tim Woods

Sgt. Slaughter

Paul Orndorff

Ken Patera

Don Muraco

Mr. Wrestling II

Leo Nomellini

Dom DeNucci

Ole Anderson

Hans Schmidt

 

That's 22 who aren't in the HOF. Most of them aren't even getting a whiff of the HOF. You go down the list and hit guys like Johnny Powers (due to New Japan one suspects) and Dom DeNucci (er...) and you really can't reach any conclusion other than Jerry is a *very* low end HOFer in Dave's eyes.

 

My guess is that Dave is going on the "any *one* of these items" point:

 

I'm not saying guys you could make a case that you can't argue Lawler should be ahead of, only you can very reasonably argue them above Lawler as well based on national prominence, drawing power, ring ability, getting over in more places or a number of other reasons

In the sense of "Bearcat Wright got over in more places than Jerry Lawler", not in the sense that Dave think's Bearcat's HOF argument is stronger than Jerry's.

 

I don't think there's any way to read it other than that, or it kind of shoots a hole in Dave's decision to put Jerry in the HOF. He is after all the person who thought Jerry Lawler > Dick Murdoch in terms of going in the HOF. I don't think he's ever said he thinks he made a mistake on that decision.

 

John

[Bix]

Depending one's definition of getting over in a number of territories, Lawler has:

 

Memphis

Knoxville

Alabama

Georgia

Florida

San Antonio

Hawaii

Dallas

AWA

NJ/PA indies in the early '90s

SMW (Separate promotion in Knoxville area two decades later)

WWF

 

But he's no Dominic DeNucci!

[jdw]

I suspect Dave would point to the degree to which Jerry got over and drew in those territories.

 

Take Dallas. He got over and drew there, relative to where the promotion sank. But as over and the draw that Chris & Gino were at their peak opposite the Von Erichs?

 

That's the type of thing he'd ask.

 

Not saying that I'd make the argument, but it's the type of thing that one needs to be prepared for. I try to avoid making the most extreme cases these days, and instead the most reasonably defendable ones.

 

John