WingedEagle

Not about to argue that this match approaches any of their prior matches to this point, but the Pittsburgh crowd just could not care less.

Best Neville has looked and come across since joining the company? By miles? RE: the point above, the crowd wanted to babyface him because the division has been a disaster thus far, but I'd call it a success if someone in the mix is over with the crowd with anything other than go away heat. Have to build from somewhere. Neville, Swann, Tozawa. There's stuff to work with there. Kendrick & TJP are much too bland to be featured, but I suppose they booked themselves into that corner with the contract situations coming out of the CWC.

No idea how long it's actually been, but this match feels interminable. And it needed to end about 10 minutes ago.

I actually thought they did a decent job laying out the story on paper, but it came off very forced with Foley resorting to his intense, end of days style promo without much provocation. But this match didn't do anyone any favors.

Apparently Foley finished decorating the tree and straightening the Divas's stockings a little early.

Props for a very original finish to the tag match.

Perhaps I'm crazy but feel like Charlotte has to win tonight. She's unbeaten on PPV and would like to think that kind of streak isn't broken without being part of the build to the show, but logic and whatnot aren't always a part of the equation.

Very low expectations here other than Sasha/Charlotte, which hopefully means a pleasant surprise. Interested to see what closes the show. Most matches have a lot of potential with the right layout and booking. We'll see how many hit, but I especially expect the two main men's singles matches to set up the title picture at the Rumble rather than anything conclusive.

Ha that's awesome. Good for him!

Has Bret's contract ever actually been published in any lawsuit? The most common formulation I see quoted is that Bret had "reasonable creative control" over his character for the last 30 days prior to any early termination of his contract, which certainly wouldn't give him veto power over anything. If that's the case, there's a pretty obvious counterargument. He refused to lose in Canada, but the only PPV during the last 30 days of his contract was in Canada, so he was effectively refusing to lose on PPV. Given the way title changes happened in the WWF at that time, it's easy to see that as an unreasonable request. Reasonable was defined as Bret and Vince agree. This has always been the accepted definition of reasonable creative control -- mutual agreement as to creative and finishes. All talent will politic and may balk at their creative direction, but this truly requires the performer's consent and thus permits someone to balk at booking without being in breach.

Because I don't have enough open wrestling viewing projects that will never get finished, I'm thinking about going back and starting with modern/expansion-era WWF on the Network as well. Easy enough to go through PPVs and SNME's as there aren't many there. There is also a very comprehensive list of all old programming available which makes it easy to track things chronologically. But between Tuesday Night Titans, Prime Time and recorded house shows there's enough programming to make any kind of complete approach unrealistic. Any handy lists of worthwhile matches / promos / angles available that could serve as a guide to picking & choosing?

Its really amazing just how much wrestling is so easily accessible nowadays. I'm not familiar with some of the names here and have only seen a few of those I do recognize, but being able to watch this on the big screen as part of my Network subscription is pretty cool. There will undoubtedly be arguments or points about how this may negatively impact the British scene, and there may be merit to much of that. But as a fan sitting at home in the States this seems like a great use of the service. Plus it'll hopefully open some doors and opportunities for the best of the bunch in this field to improve their prospects. Those who stand out should see more from this than a random match on the Network and never be heard from again.

They certainly do, and Meltzer for one regularly points out how even with the slide in ratings, USA's overall network ratings would take a tremendous hit absent WWE programming. Its a very different universe than 5, much less 15, years ago. But given how TV money is the backbone of the company its undoubtedly a top concern with an eventual renegotiation on the horizon and no desperate suitors forcing USA to ante up. I'm not talking about someone like Meltzer who I know actually understands the overall trend. I'm talking about the hot take kings of twitter & message boards who regularly go off about 'THE RATINGS ARE SO BAD!!! WWE IS FUCKED!' without adding anything else to the conversation. There weren't any other suitors driving the price up on the last round of negotiations with USA and they still got a significant increase. It's not like the rest of television is gonna make some big rebound while only WWE ratings continue to go down. Yes, but what do you expect from hot take kings? Quality of discussion in those circles won't be any better than it is for sports, politics, TV or any other medium.

They certainly do, and Meltzer for one regularly points out how even with the slide in ratings, USA's overall network ratings would take a tremendous hit absent WWE programming. Its a very different universe than 5, much less 15, years ago. But given how TV money is the backbone of the company its undoubtedly a top concern with an eventual renegotiation on the horizon and no desperate suitors forcing USA to ante up.

Sounds like a modernized RTC. I knew it sounded like an old gimmick! Couldn't quite place it though.

If mouthpieces were still a thing, a heel who castigated the rest of the roster for not speaking nicely about one another could generate some decent heat. Not sure its a gimmick that would have much shelf life though.

I still have it on DVR and will watch all the vignettes and most big matches, but it doesn't feel nearly as hot as the first couple seasons. Partly due to spreading itself much too thin as they've given a lot more time to a lot of bit characters, which on a weekly 60 minute program means a lot less time for the wrestlers you want to see more of. Also gone to the intergender well much too often. Thought it was a fun gimmick when used sparingly early on, but they've pushed it to the point that it now feels like a regular part of the show, and that's just not my thing. We're talking well beyond suspension of disbelief territory. But biggest problem here has definitely been dedicating too much TV time to opening act characters and programs.

Yes, 205 Live is Cheers. That sounds about right.

The TV isn't nearly as interesting due to a number of call ups, primarily on the women's side as that division has been gutted over the last year. However, Joe's been such a phenomenal heel week to week (even if the Nak matches themselves haven't quite lived up to my expectations), and frankly when the big shows have produced a pair of matches as strong as the two Gargano/Ciampa vs. Revival classics its tough to complain too much. More about missed opportunities and seeing easy ways to improve things rather than it being dreadful. Those two tags were simply amazing. But it hasn't been fun to see the women become the weakest part of the show after being the strongest for so long.

Yeah, pretty clear this has gone from a wrestling discussion to something much more personal. Not appropriate or fruitful to engage there.

I wish all wrestlers the best health, but they're neither friend nor family to me. Why is their health something I'm thinking much about at all beyond how it impacts the shows I'm watching? Saying this wrestler is fat is not something in a bubble. There are real life consequences. You have no idea how many people you love or are friends with that struggle with eating issues. I guarantee a LOT do, but just hide it. If someone who is a great athlete is called fat, how does a normal person on the street take that information in? So we should say all wrestlers are in great shape, beautiful because of what's inside and never acknowledge or discuss appearances in a visual performance art because doing so may compound personal issues that people in the audience are facing? That's a heavy burden. Never said that. I discuss wrestlers all the time, wtf do we need to talk about their shape at all? Maybe if they are supposed to be playing a strong power wrestler and are not strong and powerful, sure? When does that happen though? By the way, you have no idea if someone is in great shape by looking at them. My wife lost a LOT of weight and got all this praise, yet she was unhealthy as fuck thanks to binge and restricting food. She was healthier with 20 more pounds on her. You don't know if somebody is in great shape based on looks, you just don't. I wish your wife the best. I just don't care what she weighs. Similarly, I don't care what Kevin Owens weighs but for his and his family's sake hope he keeps it at a healthy number. However, if his weight rises or falls to a point where he is forced to or chooses to wear ring gear that looks low rent and amateurish, that's going to impact how I view what he does between the ropes. If his weight impacts or limits his ability to do certain things between said ropes, than I might enjoy his matches more or less. Ryota Hama has figured out how to work very entertaining professional wrestling matches at a weight that most fans probably think limits just what he can do in the ring. I don't know if Hama minus 50 or 80 pounds would be better, but it'd certainly be different. I just fail to see how that's remotely controversial or offensive. If he was built like Kamitani or Miyahara he'd be very different and we'd see his matches quite differently. And that might also be the case if Kevin Owens or Chris Hero dropped 30 pounds. Its just silly to assume that all workers would be the same regardless of their body types, weights, sizes, etc. Who cares about Sidney Crosby's BMI other than the Penguins' front office? If eating unhealthy and weighing an unhealthy weight helped them win a cup, I'm sure they'd encourage it. Because that's a completely different business than professional wrestling.

I wish all wrestlers the best health, but they're neither friend nor family to me. Why is their health something I'm thinking much about at all beyond how it impacts the shows I'm watching? Saying this wrestler is fat is not something in a bubble. There are real life consequences. You have no idea how many people you love or are friends with that struggle with eating issues. I guarantee a LOT do, but just hide it. If someone who is a great athlete is called fat, how does a normal person on the street take that information in? So we should say all wrestlers are in great shape, beautiful because of what's inside and never acknowledge or discuss appearances in a visual performance art because doing so may compound personal issues that people in the audience are facing? That's a heavy burden.

I wish all wrestlers the best health, but they're neither friend nor family to me. Why is their health something I'm thinking much about at all beyond how it impacts the shows I'm watching?

I hope Owens's & Hero's health aren't negatively impacted by their weight or body, but that's not really our concern, although it should be a priority for them. But they have chosen to work in a business very much driven by how we view their performance. They're not athletes where all that matters are results. How they do what they do and how they look while doing it is literally their job. Its not unreasonable to think that their appearance, and how it may impact their performance, if it does, can contribute to the quality of their matches. For example, its possible that if Owens were in better shape and more mobile he'd be able to take more and better bumps. His offense might look a bit more explosive if he were quicker. If he had better cardio. Or it might not. But let's not pretend that it can't impact what we see in the ring. Just because you convince yourself that its irrelevant doesn't mean there aren't very legitimate reasons why the physical condition a wrestler keeps himself in can't positively or negatively impact what they do in the ring.

If you don't say this about the men, don't say it about the women. Vince cares about looks, we get it. Also, Vince doesn't really put people in masks either, so that's a bullshit statement. The issue here is, Lovelace was hired and she is a great talent. Why add the other baggage? If they really thought she was too ugly (which she is not some hideous beast) they wouldn't had hired her. Wrestling fans talking about looks, weight, etc... of wrestlers (both men and women) is something we need to get away from as it's pretty damn destructive. That's not remotely true and arguably ignorant. James Ellsworth's look doesn't matter? Vader's doesn't? Umaga's look didn't matter? Like it or not it is absolutely a part of how characters are presented and, to varying degrees, how effective a performer they are. If Braun Strowman looked like TJ Perkins, his segments and booking might come off quite differently to live and television audiences. Some may argue better while others might argue worse. But it'd take quite the specialty cocktail to convince me that I'd be seeing the same thing in Bayley vs. Nia Jax if Jax looked like Alexa Bliss or if Bayley looked like ODB.